Welcome back to us :/ Our hosts data center was down for the entire day.
MotoHouston.com MotoHouston.com
Register Members List Member Map Media Calendar Garage Forum Home Mark Forums Read

Go Back   MotoHouston.com > General Discussion > General Discussion (Moto Related)
Forgot info?

Welcome to MotoHouston.com! You are currently viewing our forums as a guest which gives you limited access to the community. By joining our free community you will have access to great discounts from our sponsors, the ability to post topics, communicate privately with other members, respond to polls, upload content, free email, classifieds, and access many other special features. Registration is fast, simple and absolutely free, join our community!

Register Today!

If you have any problems with the registration process or your account login, please contact us.


Like us on Facebook! Regular shirt GIVEAWAYS and more

Advertisement

Reply
Share This Thread: 
Subscribe to this Thread Thread Tools
Old 03-21-2011, 08:28 PM   #101
Rael
Communist Plant
 
Rael's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Boerne
Feedback Rating: (0)
Posts: 2,235

Experience: 3 years
Trackdays: 10+

Bike(s):
'12 Griso 8v
'13 Wr250r








Quote:
Originally Posted by TexasPsyclone View Post
Sorry, you lost me at "subsidized by the state".

But any discount in the registration process I like.

Along those lines - motorcycles shouldn't have to pay on toll roads. After all, we're "green" and only rolling two wheels. That "per axle" is BS!
You mention motorcycles being "green," and that shades "subsidized"s meaning. The idea wouldn't be just to encourage "M" licenses, but also to encourage riding. Riding pollutes less, it causes less congestion, and it does less damage to the roads. All that saves the state money. I'm sure there is a point where the initial cost is overshadowed by projected gain. You can't win if you don't play.
Rael is offline   Reply With Quote
Similar Topics
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Spirt of the Law or Letter of the Law? Which are you? CaJuNsOuLjA Off Topic 34 09-10-2009 07:12 AM
Motorcycles law enforcement(law enf please enter) camaroz2866 General Discussion (Moto Related) 26 07-24-2009 09:03 AM
Discussion Regarding Helmet Law & Gear Law specterunseen General Discussion (Moto Related) 124 06-30-2008 09:09 AM
This guy oughta buy some lottery tickets. ScooterTrash Off Topic 1 06-18-2007 10:39 PM
SCOOTERTRASH IS A LAW BREAKIN OUT LAW! Solracer Off Topic 29 10-03-2006 04:26 PM
Advertisement
Old 03-21-2011, 08:29 PM   #102
bluewave18
Safety Third
 
bluewave18's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: S.E.
Feedback Rating: (0)
Posts: 34,123

Experience: 10+ years

Bike(s):
08 Busa
03 XR 50








Quote:
Originally Posted by Rael View Post
Its a tautology. Penalties necessarily must follow infractions, by definition they are reactive.

I believe that a license check at the right time, perhaps with a little redundancy, would ensure that more riders are educated before hitting the streets. However, it doesn't have to be framed as a penalty for the rider.

Consider this: a bill that provides a $500 discount, subsidized by the state, on the purchase of any new motorcycle if the purchaser presents a valid motorcycle license at the time of purchase.

Or this: Presenting a valid motorcycle license when registering a motorcycle cuts the registration fee in half.

The option remains for people to ride without an "M", but there are direct benefits aside from not being a criminal to getting the "M" before purchasing a bike.
So I should have to pay? WTF kind of thinking is this? You need to realize what the word subsidize means.
bluewave18 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-21-2011, 09:26 PM   #103
TexasPsyclone
Leah's
 
TexasPsyclone's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Southeast
Feedback Rating: (2)
Posts: 1,053

Experience: 10+ years
Trackdays: 1

Bike(s):
Honda CX500 and VF1100C (Those were last century)
87 HD FXLR (Gave her up)
03 ZX7R
94 HD FXLR
Cannondale R600 & Killer V900 (1HP....thats Human Power)






Quote:
Originally Posted by bluewave18 View Post
So I should have to pay? WTF kind of thinking is this? You need to realize what the word subsidize means.
Yes- that was my point too. I don't need my tax money going to try and persuade someone to obey a law they need to be obeying anyway. I don't see how the fact that my bike gets good mpg (i.e. "green") has anything to do with your idea of subsidization.

Now, if you want to cut me a BREAK on my taxes and fees for doing the right thing I'm already doing, then I'm all for that. Give me a break at the toll booth because I'm doing less damage to the road and lowering my so called carbon footprint ... sign me up! I'll go spend that money on a new set of tires and stimulate the economy!
__________________
"The average street rider, feels he/she is an "above average" street rider... the majority are NOT. (they think they are, but they are not) straight up. The ones that are, typically don't show it, or don't know it....or are getting paid big bucks for it." - GAU-8
sigpic9903 2

Last edited by TexasPsyclone; 03-21-2011 at 09:30 PM.
TexasPsyclone is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-21-2011, 09:40 PM   #104
Rael
Communist Plant
 
Rael's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Boerne
Feedback Rating: (0)
Posts: 2,235

Experience: 3 years
Trackdays: 10+

Bike(s):
'12 Griso 8v
'13 Wr250r








The idea would be that an initial outlay of state money would positively impact people on the fence for motorcycle purchasing. If the subsidy is crafted properly, then it will pay for itself sooner rather than later. There would be a few years where the subsidy would be just a drain on the state. If it is done right, that time will be minimized and the benefits would be maximized. It is a bit of a pipe dream, but could you imagine houston traffic if enough people were convinced that riding was worthwhile?

P.S. I know that what would really happen is that people would simply text and ride and have far more horrible crashes. At least there would be less road construction.
Rael is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-21-2011, 10:16 PM   #105
Ogre
Ancient one
 
Ogre's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Stagecoach
Feedback Rating: (1)
Posts: 1,302

Experience: 10+ years

Bike(s):
Blackbird









Quote:
Originally Posted by Rael View Post
Consider this: a bill that provides a $500 discount, subsidized by the state, on the purchase of any new motorcycle if the purchaser presents a valid motorcycle license at the time of purchase.
WTF! Are you a communist? Pay for your own toys.

Why the should I subsidize your toy purchases to provide you incentive to do the right thing? Am I supposed to pay you to go to school? Eat healthy? Not steal? Buy your house for you?

I'm tired of paying for other people's .

How about we just tax the out of you if you buy a motorcycle without presenting a license - that would provide incentive?
__________________


"The only thing in life that can't be taken away from you is your integrity. You have to give it away"

Last edited by Ogre; 03-21-2011 at 10:19 PM.
Ogre is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-21-2011, 10:24 PM   #106
Rael
Communist Plant
 
Rael's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Boerne
Feedback Rating: (0)
Posts: 2,235

Experience: 3 years
Trackdays: 10+

Bike(s):
'12 Griso 8v
'13 Wr250r








Quote:
Originally Posted by Ogre View Post
WTF! Are you a communist? Pay for your own toys.

Why the should I subsidize your toy purchases to provide you incentive to do the right thing? Am I supposed to pay you to go to school? Eat healthy? Not steal? Buy your house for you?

I'm tired of paying for other people's .

How about we just tax the out of you if you buy a motorcycle without presenting a license - that would provide incentive?
I'd be completely for that. I was simply trying to float something other than criminalizing buying without an "M" license. There is more to this debate than criminal sanctions or freedom.
Rael is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-21-2011, 10:35 PM   #107
91stunna
Naked Ninja...sort of.
 
91stunna's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Katy or Galveston
Feedback Rating: (0)
Posts: 356

Experience: 2 years

Bike(s):
2005 Z750S
2007 EX250








Makes more sense to restrict to bike purchases to those who can use them legally ride them. Yet I am prevented from buying a pistol just because of my age.
91stunna is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-21-2011, 10:50 PM   #108
Ogre
Ancient one
 
Ogre's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Stagecoach
Feedback Rating: (1)
Posts: 1,302

Experience: 10+ years

Bike(s):
Blackbird









Quote:
Originally Posted by Rael View Post
I'd be completely for that. I was simply trying to float something other than criminalizing buying without an "M" license. There is more to this debate than criminal sanctions or freedom.
The tax suggestion was facetious and intended to be every bit as ridiculous as the subsidy suggestion.

A free people should be free to make stupid decisions that affect "themselves".

Government laws should provide protection to us from the actions of others. Government oversteps its bounds and infringes on our freedoms when it endeavors to protect us from ourselves, leading to nanny state mentality as they have in California and Mass.

You have the right to do stupid things. You also have the right to bear the consequences of the decisions that you make, up to and including death. Society should have the right to interpret your intention from your actions. If you choose to ride without a helmet or seatbelt (a right you should have), then society should have the right to interpret your cavalier attitude toward your own well being as an implicit DNR request and not take heroic measures to try to extend the life that you attached so little value to.
__________________


"The only thing in life that can't be taken away from you is your integrity. You have to give it away"

Last edited by Ogre; 03-21-2011 at 10:54 PM.
Ogre is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-21-2011, 10:59 PM   #109
TexasPsyclone
Leah's
 
TexasPsyclone's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Southeast
Feedback Rating: (2)
Posts: 1,053

Experience: 10+ years
Trackdays: 1

Bike(s):
Honda CX500 and VF1100C (Those were last century)
87 HD FXLR (Gave her up)
03 ZX7R
94 HD FXLR
Cannondale R600 & Killer V900 (1HP....thats Human Power)






Quote:
Originally Posted by Ogre View Post
The tax suggestion was facetious and intended to be every bit as ridiculous as the subsidy suggestion.

A free people should be free to make stupid decisions that affect "themselves".

Government laws should provide protection to us from the actions of others. Government oversteps its bounds and infringes on our freedoms when it endeavors to protect us from ourselves, leading to nanny state mentality as they have in California and Mass.

You have the right to do stupid things. You also have the right to bear the consequences of the decisions that you make, up to and including death. Society should have the right to interpret your intention from your actions. If you choose to ride without a helmet or seatbelt (a right you should have), then society should have the right to interpret your cavalier attitude toward your own well being as an implicit DNR request and not take heroic measures to try to extend the life that you attached so little value to.
Exactly
__________________
"The average street rider, feels he/she is an "above average" street rider... the majority are NOT. (they think they are, but they are not) straight up. The ones that are, typically don't show it, or don't know it....or are getting paid big bucks for it." - GAU-8
sigpic9903 2
TexasPsyclone is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-22-2011, 02:00 AM   #110
JP171
Senior Member
 
JP171's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Sand Land
Feedback Rating: (1)
Posts: 2,323

Experience: 10+ years

Bike(s):
00' GSXR 750
05 636








simply put NO there should be no legal requirement for ownership of any vehicle that includes a license for the type of vehicle that you are buying or registering. the penalties for operating with out a license exist don't need more. as far as the individual that said to impound and auction is an idiot, there is no legal precedent for termination of ownership due to no license being held by the owner for the vehicle. think of it like this should an owner of a delivery company be required to have a CDL just because he or she owns the vehicles but never dirves them? Should the owner be deprived of his or her income from the vehicles that others drive because the owner does not have a license to drive the vehicle? then it begs the question who would get the money from the sale of the vehicle, the state the impound lot? the wrecker driver that towed the vehicle? ownership is a right, operating(driving) is a priviledge I do agree with the requirement of having some type of Motorcycle safety course prior to being issued a license for a motorcycle, that is a somewhat pro-active requirement as in that it attempts to educate before punishing
__________________
EMT-P for 18 yrs, EMT for 21, Fire Fighter since 1974

For those looking to give back to Texas and serve those in times of need, Join the Texas State Guard.
Locate a Recruiter http://www.gotxsg.com/join.php

Last edited by JP171; 03-22-2011 at 02:02 AM.
JP171 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-22-2011, 02:23 AM   #111
texlurch
Official MH tag inspector
 
texlurch's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Smack dab in the middle of Colo
Feedback Rating: (2)
Posts: 10,236

Experience: 10+ years
Trackdays: 1

Bike(s):
04 ZX-10R
02 ZX-12R BOTM 12/11
00 ZX-12R
07 GSXR 600
00 TL1000R BOTM 07/12 (sold)

Member Garage





Quote:
Originally Posted by Ogre View Post
A free people should be free to make stupid decisions that affect "themselves".

You have the right to do stupid things. You also have the right to bear the consequences of the decisions that you make, up to and including death. Society should have the right to interpret your intention from your actions. If you choose to ride without a helmet or seatbelt (a right you should have), then society should have the right to interpret your cavalier attitude toward your own well being as an implicit DNR request and not take heroic measures to try to extend the life that you attached so little value to.
Here is the problem.. unless you live in a vacuum and just came to "be", your actions DO unfortunately affect others.

Take for instance the dummy that rides with no helmet, crashes and dies. Just affects himself, right?

Wrong.

His friends, family, the emergency workers that have to clean up the mess, people passing by the scene, everyone elses insurance rates..

The effect of one persons simple, stupid act cause so many ramifications in life that you cannot possibly just toss them out.

Overseas, the affect of the collective stupidity of others has created a tiered licence system, that is very stringent and difficult to pass. They took the choice of your first bike out of your hands.

Allowed to continue, our idiocy will eventually result in that or worse.

So wheres the middle line? How do we protect ourselves from ourselves?

I have no problem with requiring some sort of competency proof before one is allowed to drive off in a 2 ton deadly weapon or a 2 wheeled bullet.
__________________
sig pic
A wise man once told me: "No matter how fine she is, just remember. Somewhere, someone is tired of her !"
.
.... Home of the "Black Ninja's"
texlurch is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-22-2011, 06:48 AM   #112
anatram
I love nekkid midgets
 
anatram's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Deer Park
Feedback Rating: (0)
Posts: 2,257

Experience: 10+ years
Trackdays: 4

Bike(s):
07 HD XL1200C

01 XR fiddy







Quote:
Originally Posted by GrandeLatte View Post
I have to disagree on this one. The purpose of a license is to operate one on the street SAFELY. Why do government continue to allow 90 year old with no reaction time to drive? That's not safe. That should go both ways in the public roadways. Motorcyclists must follow the laws and ride safely and responsibly. Driving in the public roadways is a privilege and we always must take in account of public safety.
Just becasue you have a license doesn't make you any safer than some one who doesn't.

My grandfather never had a driver's license, never had a wreck, never had any citations.

A punk kid fresh out of high school gets a Gixxer 600 for graduation, takes the class for his M endorsement, and gets his license. He's out poping wheelies and jiggin through traffic, cause he has got to "holla at the honeys".

Who's the safer driver now?
__________________
I've never had a piece of tail I didn't like, it was the woman attached to it I didn't care for.
anatram is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-22-2011, 06:53 AM   #113
Bevo
Hook 'em!
 
Bevo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Houston-The South Loop
Feedback Rating: (0)
Posts: 24,323

Experience: 10+ years
Trackdays: 3

Bike(s):
'12 CBR1000RR Red/Black
'14 CB1000R Matte Gray
'10 CBR1000RR (destroyed)
'09 CBR1000RR C-ABS (sold)
'09 CBR600RR C-ABS (sold)

Member Garage





Quote:
Originally Posted by anatram View Post
Just becasue you have a license doesn't make you any safer than some one who doesn't.

My grandfather never had a driver's license, never had a wreck, never had any citations.

A punk kid fresh out of high school gets a Gixxer 600 for graduation, takes the class for his M endorsement, and gets his license. He's out poping wheelies and jiggin through traffic, cause he has got to "holla at the honeys".

Who's the safer driver now?
Obviously the elderly

Police aim to have elderly man's license revoked after fatal crash
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by bumblebee View Post
"I lack skillz"
Bevo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-22-2011, 07:04 AM   #114
ST675
01101000 01101001
 
ST675's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Cypress
Feedback Rating: (3)
Posts: 1,378

Experience: 10+ years

Bike(s):
lots of bikes from 80cc to 1200cc
Current : ZX11
KX80







Quote:
Originally Posted by Bevo View Post

You don't think that the speed limit keeps some folks from speeding?


Nope not one bit. That is simple to prove. Just drive ANY Houston freeway at the posted limit and you will need a clicker to count how many cars pass you... LOL and off cause you are impeding traffic!

So HOW does the speed limit STOP any one from speeding? do the signs shoot nails in your tire?

You have a choice to obey any law or not. Your ultimate decision depends on your personal morals. Period. if you feel itís ok to speed then you will.

I see it every day in school zones. People get annoyed at those who slow, so they speed up to GTFO..While they are talking or texting on a cell phone. Which is Illegal

And it IS illegal to openly shoot people because you don't like them right? then why did Jared Lee Loughner shoot everyone in Arizona? HOW did the law stop him? your morals prevent you from performing this act, but his did not. He made a decision to shoot, be damned of any man made law or not.
__________________
That may be your first bike....but its not your last....
ST675 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-22-2011, 07:13 AM   #115
Bevo
Hook 'em!
 
Bevo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Houston-The South Loop
Feedback Rating: (0)
Posts: 24,323

Experience: 10+ years
Trackdays: 3

Bike(s):
'12 CBR1000RR Red/Black
'14 CB1000R Matte Gray
'10 CBR1000RR (destroyed)
'09 CBR1000RR C-ABS (sold)
'09 CBR600RR C-ABS (sold)

Member Garage





Quote:
Originally Posted by ST675 View Post


Nope not one bit. That is simple to prove. Just drive ANY Houston freeway at the posted limit and you will need a clicker to count how many cars pass you... LOL and off cause you are impeding traffic!

So HOW does the speed limit STOP any one from speeding? do the signs shoot nails in your tire?

You have a choice to obey any law or not. Your ultimate decision depends on your personal morals. Period. if you feel itís ok to speed then you will.

I see it every day in school zones. People get annoyed at those who slow, so they speed up to GTFO..While they are talking or texting on a cell phone. Which is Illegal

And it IS illegal to openly shoot people because you don't like them right? then why did Jared Lee Loughner shoot everyone in Arizona? HOW did the law stop him? your morals prevent you from performing this act, but his did not. He made a decision to shoot, be damned of any man made law or not.
So speed limits have zero effect on all drivers? Do traffic signals and stop signs have any effect?

Laws don't work so let's not have them. Who's with me? If you see a bike that's not yours, take it.
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by bumblebee View Post
"I lack skillz"
Bevo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-22-2011, 07:26 AM   #116
Chubby Racer
The Confusion
 
Chubby Racer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: between a chair and a screen
Feedback Rating: (2)
Posts: 19,403

Experience: 8 years
Trackdays: 10+

Bike(s):
'07 R6
'02 KLX110(tarded)








Send a message via ICQ to Chubby Racer Send a message via AIM to Chubby Racer Send a message via MSN to Chubby Racer Send a message via Yahoo to Chubby Racer
Quote:
Originally Posted by FKNA View Post
Yes there is. Take DWI for example. Failure to give a BAC results in automatic suspension of license. That my dear friend is PROACTIVE.

Quote:
Originally Posted by random lawyer's webpage
Although most citizens are informed that refusing to give a specimen of your breath will result in a 180-day driver's license suspension, you're entitled to a civil hearing in front of an Administrative Law Judge who determines whether the State can suspend your license.

not sure if my source is a good one, but it disagrees with you.
__________________
A motorcycle is a joy machine. It's a machine of wonders, a metal bird, a motorized prosthetic. It's light and dark and shiny and dirty and warm and cold lapping over each other; it's a conduit of grace, it's a catalyst for bonding the gritty and the holy.

CMRA #302
Chubby Racer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-22-2011, 07:31 AM   #117
bluewave18
Safety Third
 
bluewave18's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: S.E.
Feedback Rating: (0)
Posts: 34,123

Experience: 10+ years

Bike(s):
08 Busa
03 XR 50








Quote:
Originally Posted by Rael View Post
You mention motorcycles being "green," and that shades "subsidized"s meaning. The idea wouldn't be just to encourage "M" licenses, but also to encourage riding. Riding pollutes less, it causes less congestion, and it does less damage to the roads. All that saves the state money. I'm sure there is a point where the initial cost is overshadowed by projected gain. You can't win if you don't play.
Another person who believes and gov. program could ever pay for itself? Isn't that an oxymoron or something?
bluewave18 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-22-2011, 07:31 AM   #118
FKNA
Senior Member
 
FKNA's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Houston
Feedback Rating: (1)
Posts: 6,707

Experience: 10+ years
Trackdays: 3

Bike(s):
2005 Yamaha R1
2008 Goldwing








Quote:
Originally Posted by Bevo View Post
So speed limits have zero effect on all drivers? Do traffic signals and stop signs have any effect?
They only reason they have any effect is because the alert the driver to dangers ahead, NOT because of the laws behind them.
FKNA is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-22-2011, 07:38 AM   #119
Bevo
Hook 'em!
 
Bevo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Houston-The South Loop
Feedback Rating: (0)
Posts: 24,323

Experience: 10+ years
Trackdays: 3

Bike(s):
'12 CBR1000RR Red/Black
'14 CB1000R Matte Gray
'10 CBR1000RR (destroyed)
'09 CBR1000RR C-ABS (sold)
'09 CBR600RR C-ABS (sold)

Member Garage





Quote:
Originally Posted by FKNA View Post
They only reason they have any effect is because the alert the driver to dangers ahead, NOT because of the laws behind them.
I don't speed in the car because I don't want to get a ticket and I've ridden with riders that wouldn't speed because they had too many tickets.
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by bumblebee View Post
"I lack skillz"
Bevo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-22-2011, 07:40 AM   #120
Bevo
Hook 'em!
 
Bevo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Houston-The South Loop
Feedback Rating: (0)
Posts: 24,323

Experience: 10+ years
Trackdays: 3

Bike(s):
'12 CBR1000RR Red/Black
'14 CB1000R Matte Gray
'10 CBR1000RR (destroyed)
'09 CBR1000RR C-ABS (sold)
'09 CBR600RR C-ABS (sold)

Member Garage





Quote:
Originally Posted by FKNA View Post
They only reason they have any effect is because the alert the driver to dangers ahead, NOT because of the laws behind them.
I don't see many drivers stopping at red lights, then running them even though there's no traffic.
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by bumblebee View Post
"I lack skillz"
Bevo is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools

Advertisement


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 12:07 PM.


MotoHouston.com is not responsible for the content posted by users.
Privacy Policy