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Old 03-21-2011, 04:44 PM   #81
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Originally Posted by po-po 5.0 View Post
There is no Proactive law (using your terminology). Think about it. if you don't "have this to do this" you could still do it, and then when "you were caught doing this, pay this fine."
Yes there is. Take DWI for example. Failure to give a BAC results in automatic suspension of license. That my dear friend is PROACTIVE.

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Originally Posted by anatram View Post
I agree 100%, any idiot can take a class and get a license. That doesn't mean they are truely prepared.

I've been riding for over 25 years, don't have an endorsement, and known when to push my limits.

I need to get it, but haven't had time.
I'm with ya there. It took me more than 25 years before I finally went out to get an M endorsement. Only did it to get out of a speeding ticket.

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Originally Posted by honorsdaddy View Post
I havent a problem with that either. Speed limits are largely unnecessary and provide no actual benefit other than increased revenue for the state.

Those who are going to speed (yes, I'm one of them) have no respect for the law requiring them to go slower and do it anyway.

I decide my speed by what is safe for the conditions. Why should I be artificially limited to 70mph on a straight level road with 100miles between exits on a clear day with little to no traffic? Is there something inherently unsafe about 150mph?

On the other hand, if it is rainy, dark and heavily congested on a twisty road marked with a minimum speed of 50mph, I may choose instead to move at 40mph because that is what I deem safe for the conditions.
Studies have been done in other countries about speed limit where they opened things up so no speed limits were imposed. What they found is the vast majority would drive at a pace that was safe for the conditions.
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Old 03-21-2011, 04:46 PM   #82
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You can be sued civilly. It's your property and you're responsible if you let an unlicensed person operate it.
Only because we live in a sue happy society where a woman can become a millionaire overnight simply by spilling coffee in her lap.
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Old 03-21-2011, 04:46 PM   #83
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Not 100% sure about that one...
You'd better be 100% sure of who you loan your vehicles to.
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Old 03-21-2011, 04:47 PM   #84
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FKNA View Post
Yes there is. Take DWI for example. Failure to give a BAC results in automatic suspension of license. That my dear friend is PROACTIVE.
Actually it is still reactive.

You're obligated to take the test, with the penalty of losing your license if you do not.

ALL laws are reactive in their penalties. Some attempt to be proactive in their benefit, but the reality is they do nothing until they are broken.
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Old 03-21-2011, 04:47 PM   #85
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Originally Posted by Bevo View Post
You'd better be 100% sure of who you loan your vehicles to.
I am - not because of the law, but because they belong to me.
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Old 03-21-2011, 04:51 PM   #86
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Knock yourself out - my bike wont go that fast, and frankly, I'm not comfortable at those speeds on two wheels.
You're missing the point. If you're riding on the outside of a turn, and a group of sportbikes is hauling in the opposite direction and one of them loses it, his bike could end up in your lap.
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Old 03-21-2011, 04:56 PM   #87
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Actually it is still reactive.

You're obligated to take the test, with the penalty of losing your license if you do not.

ALL laws are reactive in their penalties. Some attempt to be proactive in their benefit, but the reality is they do nothing until they are broken.
In that case, what about the new health care law that mandates that a person carry health care insurance. That's gotta be a proactive law, right?
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Old 03-21-2011, 04:58 PM   #88
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Knock yourself out - my bike wont go that fast, and frankly, I'm not comfortable at those speeds on two wheels.
Do you have a sports bike in your arsenal or just a cruiser?
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Old 03-21-2011, 04:59 PM   #89
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bevo View Post
You're missing the point. If you're riding on the outside of a turn, and a group of sportbikes is hauling in the opposite direction and one of them loses it, his bike could end up in your lap.
You're missing the point - regardless of the law, that can (and DOES) happen anyway.

The law neither stops nor prevents it. The people who are going to ride at speeds unsafe for their skills, the road, the machine or a combination of all three, will do so regardless of the speed limit.
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Old 03-21-2011, 05:00 PM   #90
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FKNA View Post
In that case, what about the new health care law that mandates that a person carry health care insurance. That's gotta be a proactive law, right?
Nope - it does not actually stop or prevent a thing - other than growth of your personal wealth that is.
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Old 03-21-2011, 05:01 PM   #91
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FKNA View Post
Do you have a sports bike in your arsenal or just a cruiser?
Just the big ole black Road Toad. Finances have kept me from adding to the stable.

Next addition will likely be a sport tourer of some sort (leaning towards an FJR), but truthfully, I have no interest in a super-sport. I don't find them comfortable.

Love the look of em - and wouldn't mind having a track , but most of my riding is more sedate.

Now, if you're looking for a good (free) home for the R1, I'll take care of her for you...
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Old 03-21-2011, 05:11 PM   #92
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Nope - it does not actually stop or prevent a thing - other than growth of your personal wealth that is.
Looking at it that way, then yes. All laws are reactive. But the contention the other poster was making "proactive v reactive" is some laws are explicitly written to be proactive with the intention to curb certain behaviors

Quote:
Originally Posted by honorsdaddy View Post
Just the big ole black Road Toad. Finances have kept me from adding to the stable.

Next addition will likely be a sport tourer of some sort (leaning towards an FJR), but truthfully, I have no interest in a super-sport. I don't find them comfortable.

Love the look of em - and wouldn't mind having a track , but most of my riding is more sedate.

Now, if you're looking for a good (free) home for the R1, I'll take care of her for you...
I was just curious due to your comment about not being comfortable at those speeds. I can see why, on a cruiser at those speeds one feels like a parachute and they're going to be sucked right off the bike at any time.

My R1 will be my little baby for life. She'll never grow up and leave home
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Old 03-21-2011, 05:35 PM   #93
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Studies have been done in other countries about speed limit where they opened things up so no speed limits were imposed. What they found is the vast majority would drive at a pace that was safe for the conditions.
It would be interesting to compare the relationship between more open speeding laws and the initial licensing requirements. I know the U.S. has very lenient and inexpensive licensing compared to some countries.
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Old 03-21-2011, 05:50 PM   #94
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In that case, what about the new health care law that mandates that a person carry health care insurance. That's gotta be a proactive law, right?
Its a tautology. Penalties necessarily must follow infractions, by definition they are reactive.

I believe that a license check at the right time, perhaps with a little redundancy, would ensure that more riders are educated before hitting the streets. However, it doesn't have to be framed as a penalty for the rider.

Consider this: a bill that provides a $500 discount, subsidized by the state, on the purchase of any new motorcycle if the purchaser presents a valid motorcycle license at the time of purchase.

Or this: Presenting a valid motorcycle license when registering a motorcycle cuts the registration fee in half.

The option remains for people to ride without an "M", but there are direct benefits aside from not being a criminal to getting the "M" before purchasing a bike.
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Old 03-21-2011, 06:04 PM   #95
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Old 03-21-2011, 06:11 PM   #96
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Sorry, you lost me at "subsidized by the state".

But any discount in the registration process I like.

Along those lines - motorcycles shouldn't have to pay on toll roads. After all, we're "green" and only rolling two wheels. That "per axle" is BS!
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Old 03-21-2011, 06:23 PM   #97
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I didnt know death asked you for a licence.....
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Old 03-21-2011, 07:24 PM   #98
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How about some possible SOLUTIONS to the problem instead of more law. For instance: get pulled over operating a motor vehicle (bike or car) on public roads without proof of insurance and your vehicle gets towed IMMEDIATELY. No M endorsement or driver's license: towed IMMEDIATELY. No current registration or inspection: towed IMMEDIATELY. The state could give you 90 days or so to get your stuff in order prior to auction. With the price of cars and insurance these days, we all need protection. If you can't afford all of these things then buy a bicycle or take the bus.
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Old 03-21-2011, 07:46 PM   #99
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The purpose of a license is to operate one on the street - that's it. Nothing more.
I have to disagree on this one. The purpose of a license is to operate one on the street SAFELY. Why do government continue to allow 90 year old with no reaction time to drive? That's not safe. That should go both ways in the public roadways. Motorcyclists must follow the laws and ride safely and responsibly. Driving in the public roadways is a privilege and we always must take in account of public safety.
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Old 03-21-2011, 08:06 PM   #100
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Quote:
Originally Posted by honorsdaddy View Post
You're missing the point - regardless of the law, that can (and DOES) happen anyway.

The law neither stops nor prevents it. The people who are going to ride at speeds unsafe for their skills, the road, the machine or a combination of all three, will do so regardless of the speed limit.
So you'd be ok with no speed limits and me doing triple digits in front of your home...in school zones, etc? What's your address?

You don't think that the speed limit keeps some folks from speeding?
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