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Old 03-08-2011, 07:05 PM   #41
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Not trying to throw a wrench in things, but the motorcycle handbook at the DPS office say new riders should be in front so "more experienced riders can keep an eye on them." Guess the theory is it would keep the group from moving faster than the new rider is able.
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Old 03-08-2011, 07:26 PM   #42
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but if you do that, then the guys in the back have a fail ride? if i HAD the exp i would not wanna putter around corners at 55mph :\ so it kinda ruins it for them. j/s
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Old 03-08-2011, 07:39 PM   #43
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but if you do that, then the guys in the back have a fail ride? if i HAD the exp i would not wanna putter around corners at 55mph :\ so it kinda ruins it for them. j/s
Go read the event description. It is a noob centered ride, if more experienced riders want to truck ahead and form their own group, that's fine, but it is centered around a slower, comfortable pace.

PM with any questions.

Back on topic, ladies.
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Old 03-08-2011, 07:42 PM   #44
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Oh, I understand that completely. People are talking "rules and guidelines," so I'm just passing along what the book says.

I know that I'm an inexperienced rider and will make no claims to the contrary, and won't be riding with large groups any time soon.

I do have mixed feelings about where to ride, though. I don't want to hold people up by riding slow up front, but at the same time, I don't want to get left behind, either. If I'm uncomfortable, I'll slow down. That simple. Not everyone thinks like me. There's something about a bike that amplifies peer pressure, so putting inexperienced riders in back runs the risk of them trying to ride beyond their skill level to keep up.
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Old 03-08-2011, 07:50 PM   #45
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Oh, I understand that completely. People are talking "rules and guidelines," so I'm just passing along what the book says.

I know that I'm an inexperienced rider and will make no claims to the contrary, and won't be riding with large groups any time soon.

I do have mixed feelings about where to ride, though. I don't want to hold people up by riding slow up front, but at the same time, I don't want to get left behind, either. If I'm uncomfortable, I'll slow down. That simple. Not everyone thinks like me. There's something about a bike that amplifies peer pressure, so putting inexperienced riders in back runs the risk of them trying to ride beyond their skill level to keep up.
come out to our honda meet tonight...

you don't have to go a long for the ride if you don't feel comfortable.
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Old 03-08-2011, 08:30 PM   #46
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Old 03-08-2011, 08:43 PM   #47
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Newb here, to save this one from going the way of the last one can I point out something?

He's right you can't see from the front what others be hind you are doing. I would suggest that a very experienced rider sweep, and since we wait at every turn until the sweeper gives a thumbs up, maybe the sweeper uses a halt signal if he observes someone riding out of their comfort zone. Then everyone pulls over and the leader and sweeper both talk to said person. Moving person to the back of the pack or if they refuse asking them to leave.
What about this?
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Old 03-08-2011, 09:15 PM   #48
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What about this?
Yes, that's what happens in a well controlled group. A good leader can look back after a turn also, and notice the space inbetween the riders signaling a descrepancy in the riders ability. Also there is no need to signal as the sweeper stops for everyone, so when the leader sees the sweeper, its all good. This does not apply to the "Class A" group, where it's every man for themselves and the leader is just a "rabbit" like a horsetrack.
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Old 03-09-2011, 05:54 PM   #49
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c'mon guys - classification? really? All anyone needs is to 1) know their ability, 2) stay within that ability 3) don't try to keep up with others who are going faster.

You can't put "Classes" in place - who wants to say, no, I'm not gutsy enough, or fast enough... people want to keep up - I know, I've done it too. it's all about self-management and you really can't do that for everyone.
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Old 03-09-2011, 05:57 PM   #50
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You can't put "Classes" in place - who wants to say, no, I'm not gutsy enough, or fast enough...
The people that want to make it home in one piece every time.

The same ones usually don't mind groups because they
1) know their ability, 2) stay within that ability 3) don't try to keep up with others who are going faster.
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Old 03-09-2011, 05:59 PM   #51
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If you want the camaraderie of riding in a group, then stay with the group - and that means not pushing part of your group beyond their comfort level.
-
it's like the 'instructors' I observed last weekend at MSR. Couple of laps as leaders, keeping a decent pace for the beginners. Later, no holds-barred flat out racing with no instruction/observation - they just wanted track time and left the beginners and others on their own, fighting for track position occasionally almost running some of them off the track. It's called self-control, and most people don't have it - beginners need it the most.
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Old 03-09-2011, 06:03 PM   #52
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You should include understanding basic appendage signals as well. Flasher, po po debris in road
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Old 03-09-2011, 07:54 PM   #53
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If you want the camaraderie of riding in a group, then stay with the group - and that means not pushing part of your group beyond their comfort level.
-
it's like the 'instructors' I observed last weekend at MSR. Couple of laps as leaders, keeping a decent pace for the beginners. Later, no holds-barred flat out racing with no instruction/observation - they just wanted track time and left the beginners and others on their own, fighting for track position occasionally almost running some of them off the track. It's called self-control, and most people don't have it - beginners need it the most.
agreed 100%

The biggest problem is the connection between the brain and the right hand of each rider. It is very hard to control anybody in a larger group environment so the best advice is to know your own limits and control yourself, not because the guy in front of you run into the ditch means that you have to do the same, by the same rule, not because the rider in front is taking turns at triple digits means that you will have to follow him at the same speed, ultimately it is the rider himself that needs to stay within his limits and never ride at a pace that is outside his comfort zone.

If your friend runs a red light and you follow right behind him but only you get pulled over, who's fault is it or who is responsible? You cant tell the cop that it was your friend's fault for making you run the red light can you? At the end we will just have to take responsibility for our own actions and not blame people around us!
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Old 03-09-2011, 08:07 PM   #54
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Quote:
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c'mon guys - classification? really? All anyone needs is to 1) know their ability, 2) stay within that ability 3) don't try to keep up with others who are going faster.

You can't put "Classes" in place - who wants to say, no, I'm not gutsy enough, or fast enough... people want to keep up - I know, I've done it too. it's all about self-management and you really can't do that for everyone.
Rather than self management it is risk management, part of the risk is how far you will go to
1-Get the enjoyment out of the ride
2-Pay the consequences if you go beyond your risk limits
3-How valuable your self is.
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Old 03-09-2011, 08:10 PM   #55
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Rather than self management it is risk management, part of the risk is how far you will go to
1-Get the enjoyment out of the ride
2-Pay the consequences if you go beyond your risk limits
3-How valuable your self is.
exactly!
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Old 03-10-2011, 01:52 PM   #56
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Old 03-10-2011, 01:58 PM   #57
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Peer pressure works too..

Bring it up in the meeting.. don't ride over your head,
if you have more than 1 aww moment back off,
don't be "that guy" that does a dirt sample and ruins the ride for everyone else

I'm like a lot of other "old timers" that have seen this same stuff over and over....

I no longer post rides that will be spirited... public rides bring too many uncontrolled factors, I don't care how you try to split the groups. Anytime you are riding with new people and hauling , the odds go up that someone will get the green meenie and overdo it. All you have to do is scroll back thru the events.
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Old 03-12-2011, 12:30 AM   #58
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what does one do when the cop's turn their lights on? Do you stop? Does everyone stop?
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Old 03-12-2011, 12:33 AM   #59
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what does one do when the cop's turn their lights on? Do you stop? Does everyone stop?
it has happened a few times on our rides and most of the time the cops pull over the guys in the back (slower riders) and the front group keeps going and stops a few miles down the road and wait for the rider that got pulled over.
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Old 03-12-2011, 12:33 AM   #60
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what does one do when the cop's turn their lights on? Do you stop? Does everyone stop?
twist the throttle as far as it will go. Usually the only rider that pulls over is the one that the cop gets behind
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