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Old 03-07-2011, 05:54 PM   #41
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Don't lie on the net man.... you like riding with girls and old people cause they make you feel faster
face it.... old must know a thing or two they are still alive lol
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Old 03-07-2011, 05:55 PM   #42
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Don't lie on the net man.... you like riding with girls and old people cause they make you feel faster
I'm not lying. I normally ride by myself anywhere because of the same - more than 99% of my miles are alone. I have only been on 2 organized rides in 2 years of riding - Forest run with a few friends and Caligonetx's Galveston Cruise last year. These are people I know and trust...and can learn from Who wants to ride with fast "street" riders with no technique?

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face it.... old must know a thing or two they are still alive lol
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Old 03-07-2011, 05:59 PM   #43
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Leadership Rule #1: Upper leadership transcends lower followers. If people in the "slower" groups are messing up, something is not right about what the leaders are doing.


"Leadership Rule #1: Upper leadership transcends lower followers."

this statement is true when the leadership knows, trains, and mentors its subordinates.


If people in the "slower" groups are messing up, something is not right about what the leaders are doing.

this statement is not true, because of my first response. when the control measures are in place (pre-ride briefing, staggered formation, bike length gaps, etc) and someone rides out of their league, then THEY are to be held responsible for their own actions. i do not blame the guy up front.

leadership is key, but is not the scapegoat for those who make their own mistakes.
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Old 03-07-2011, 06:08 PM   #44
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Maybe you have never ridden in a large group but "Leaders" as the term implies means that the person is leading the ride..... that means the leader will never see what goes behind him unless he grows eyes in the back of his head!
You have much more power than you think. These guys really look up to you. I see it in all their posts. No one here is saying that you can stop or prevent anything. I also don't think it was directed at you but group rides in general. 3090 has seen more than it's fair share. I think all that is being said is that discussion of this before every group ride ain't a bad idea. As they say, an ounce of prevention....

From what I have seen your rides have been relatively incident free. I hope it stays that way. I really do!
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Old 03-07-2011, 06:09 PM   #45
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"Leadership Rule #1: Upper leadership transcends lower followers."

this statement is true when the leadership knows, trains, and mentors its subordinates.


If people in the "slower" groups are messing up, something is not right about what the leaders are doing.

this statement is not true, because of my first response. when the control measures are in place (pre-ride briefing, staggered formation, bike length gaps, etc) and someone rides out of their league, then THEY are to be held responsible for their own actions. i do not blame the guy up front.

leadership is key, but is not the scapegoat for those who make their own mistakes.
A real leader takes ownership over mistakes those below him or her make no matter what. And in this case, takes corrective actions.

Look at the Cars and Coffee meets. Even though the leaders were in no way responsible for the burnouts and other retarded going on the feeders, they shut it down, relocated and reorganized to benefit everyone's safety. Not because they had to but because they see a bigger picture outside of attendance.

If you are going to create a regular "organized" ride where people are getting hurt or are near getting hurt but not taking responsibility, you aren't a leader. You are an "organizer". I wouldn't trust my well being or others with an "organizer" who feels that my safety is less important than there pride.
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Old 03-07-2011, 06:10 PM   #46
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There's no way to keep riders from running off the road, but hopefully if everyone knows and follows the rules, one rider won't cause another to crash
^^This is very true.^^

Our ride this Sunday was as organized as a ride could be, and we still had a few incidents, but everyone had enough space and they all were able to pick up their bikes and ride with us all the way.


I have been trying to stay out of this thread, because I really don't think it can go in a good direction...

But being one of the people that puts meets and rides together, I feel a certain level of responsibility of the people on the ride. I give everyone rules and what they should expect. I know a lot of times the guys that I usually ride with are thrown off or don't agree so much as when is just us (usual riders) I am a bit mor spirited on the ride, but that is because I have a certain level of trust for them. When I have people that are either new, not have riden with before, or I can tell they have a certain nervousness to them, I take my riding easier. I was not always like thism but with time and soem observations I realized that few things had to be tweaked. I also try to watch how other more seasoned riderslead their ride and how they execute it... in order to learn from them. I think I have a way better Idea now of riding and leading a big group. However, to some of the other points, there is only so much you can do, there has been time when other people break off the group because they jump infront of me (the leader) when they do that to prove a point, I slowdown significantly so they can see that no one is going to follow that, so you either keep haulin by yourself or fall back in line.


Sunday- I think something that would be good for you to do with your SMR's, have your Riders Meeting, make sure you are completely clear that you will kick people off the ride if they do something wreckless or are riding stupid. Designate a sweeper that knows the road and doesn't mind going "slow"... And since you know of this infamous turn that is tricky for everyone. Do what you did with me when you took me out there, take a slow stroll through and make sure you point it out to them, you point and everyone behind you does the same to the person behind. I think that might cut down on this turn taking people out. I also feel it also is part of the attitude that comes from the threads on SMR, I don't mind them because I understand, but I can see where it can get taken like you guys are just a bunch of hooligans. Well, baditalian00 is, everyone else I think should be fine



With all that said, there is a big difference for me in MY pace on a early weekend ride, then on a ride at night with peole that I know or people that I know ride the "short" or "short to long" streets. However, when our ride take off from our meeting spot in Katy and we head to PP1, I'm like a grandma going out there always looking back making sure my ducks are in a row
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Old 03-07-2011, 06:14 PM   #47
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C'Mon Man! LOL You can't be that unaware of what's happening on your rides...
A. I think Deadfred explained what happened, the other rider tried to pass him and ended up cutting him off, at this point it Deadfred had no way to give the other rider any space, it is the same as if someone cutting you off and you ended up hitting that person and then the cops said that it was your fault for failure to maintain a proper distance between the 2 vehicles!


B. Bart went down because he was riding outside his comfort zone, no one else to blame. I think he was man enough to admit his mistakes and learn from this experience! If you read his entire post you will find out what was his mistake, it had nothing to do with any of the rules we posted!

C. I have never seen that video, can you post a link please?

G. In Bart's case it is self explanatory, please refer to his write up as to what happened. As for Deadfred, it was really an unfortunate event but if you read the whole thing you will know that the person that caused the accident was not part of our group! He saw us at the gas station and decided to join our ride from there.

H. FYI, We have been doing SMRs for 6 years now, 100% of the regulars do have insurance!
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Old 03-07-2011, 06:14 PM   #48
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...there has been time when other people break off the group because they jump infront of me (the leader) when they do that to prove a point, I slowdown significantly so they can see that no one is going to follow that, so you either keep haulin by yourself or fall back in line...
Well played
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Old 03-07-2011, 06:19 PM   #49
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A real leader takes ownership over mistakes those below him or her make no matter what. And in this case, takes corrective actions.

Look at the Cars and Coffee meets. Even though the leaders were in no way responsible for the burnouts and other retarded going on the feeders, they shut it down, relocated and reorganized to benefit everyone's safety. Not because they had to but because they see a bigger picture outside of attendance.

If you are going to create a regular "organized" ride where people are getting hurt or are near getting hurt but not taking responsibility, you aren't a leader. You are an "organizer". I wouldn't trust my well being or others with an "organizer" who feels that my safety is less important than there pride.
You are wrong on several points. A doesn't take the blame for subordinates fuckups unless that subordinate was set up for failure or not given guidance on the mission. These riders Are given guidance and warning and we are not setting up thier bikes nor did we teach them to ride.

You Are dead wrong Bout coffee and cars. My best friend is a member of space city LX and he informed me that they were TOLD TO LEAVE! It was not a leadership decision.

Trust me sir, if you know me better you would know that a debate about leadership with me is a losing battle.
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Old 03-07-2011, 06:22 PM   #50
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You have much more power than you think. These guys really look up to you. I see it in all their posts. No one here is saying that you can stop or prevent anything. I also don't think it was directed at you but group rides in general. 3090 has seen more than it's fair share. I think all that is being said is that discussion of this before every group ride ain't a bad idea. As they say, an ounce of prevention....

From what I have seen your rides have been relatively incident free. I hope it stays that way. I really do!
Thanks for sharing your take on this I really think it is a good idea to have a riders meeting specially for the new riders that just joined us but sometimes it is pretty hard to keep everybody in line specially when i am a mile ahead of the road.
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Old 03-07-2011, 06:45 PM   #51
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A real leader takes ownership over mistakes those below him or her make no matter what. And in this case, takes corrective actions.

If you are going to create a regular "organized" ride where people are getting hurt or are near getting hurt but not taking responsibility, you aren't a leader. You are an "organizer". I wouldn't trust my well being or others with an "organizer" who feels that my safety is less important than there pride.
1. Your concept of leadership is way off man but you are entitled to such thinking if it makes you easier to blame your boss if you up at work.

2. Unless i was involved directly in an accident i don't see how i could take responsibility for everybody that decides to join our SMRs and goes down. We are all adults here that purchased powerful and dangerous toys, it is ultimately your own decision and judgement to go at whatever speed you feel comfortable with! I am sure the dealer that sold you the bike did not ask you if you wanted to buy a box of common sense to go with the bike
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Old 03-07-2011, 07:11 PM   #52
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Ok, so I was, and still am a Newb so I just want to put this out there for feed back. I think I made a classic mistake when I went down on my bike. I got over confident and rode over my skill level(completely my fault). My question, or observation is this, I noticed that when I rode by myself, because of inexperience, I would sometimes find my self in trouble, but when I followed a seasoned rider I actually not only felt, but rode more Comfortably and faster, simply because I could see and follow there UT in points in a turn. I found it easy when matching there speed and turn paths, so I guess my question is this. When I do get my next bike, is there a school for this or is there a rider that will take the time to teach me these things you guys keep arguing about...

By the way I know I'm not the only Newb that feels this way, and not all of us can afford the track.

I may however be the only one brave enough to say it...
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Old 03-07-2011, 07:13 PM   #53
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All of that sidestepping, and you still can't admit that besides these "regulars" and your rules, one in three of your rides in 2 months has had wrecks (2/6). That's not a good track record by any means.

Is this your fault directly? Maybe, maybe not, thats debatable all day. But as a rider of a MC community and a human being you really think everything is okay and you shouldn't do anything about it? That sounds pitiful even having to ask that...

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A. I think Deadfred explained what happened, the other rider tried to pass him and ended up cutting him off, at this point it Deadfred had no way to give the other rider any space, it is the same as if someone cutting you off and you ended up hitting that person and then the cops said that it was your fault for failure to maintain a proper distance between the 2 vehicles!


B. Bart went down because he was riding outside his comfort zone, no one else to blame. I think he was man enough to admit his mistakes and learn from this experience! If you read his entire post you will find out what was his mistake, it had nothing to do with any of the rules we posted!

C. I have never seen that video, can you post a link please?

G. In Bart's case it is self explanatory, please refer to his write up as to what happened. As for Deadfred, it was really an unfortunate event but if you read the whole thing you will know that the person that caused the accident was not part of our group! He saw us at the gas station and decided to join our ride from there.

H. FYI, We have been doing SMRs for 6 years now, 100% of the regulars do have insurance!
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Old 03-07-2011, 07:14 PM   #54
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Ok, so I was, and still am a Newb so I just want to put this out there for feed back. I think I made a classic mistake when I went down on my bike. I got over confident and rode over my skill level(completely my fault). My question, or observation is this, I noticed that when I rode by myself, because of inexperience, I would sometimes find my self in trouble, but when I followed a seasoned rider I actually not only felt, but rode more Comfortably and faster, simply because I could see and follow there UT in points in a turn. I found it easy when matching there speed and turn paths, so I guess my question is this. When I do get my next bike, is there a school for this or is there a rider that will take the time to teach me these things you guys keep arguing about...

By the way I know I'm not the only Newb that feels this way, and not all of us can afford the track.

I may however be the only one brave enough to say it...
I am far from a racer but i am always willing to teach people what i know, let me know whenever you get your bike!
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Old 03-07-2011, 07:25 PM   #55
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All of that sidestepping, and you still can't admit that besides these "regulars" and your rules, one in three of your rides in 2 months has had wrecks (2/6). That's not a good track record by any means.

Is this your fault directly? Maybe, maybe not, thats debatable all day. But as a rider of a MC community and a human being you really think everything is okay and you shouldn't do anything about it? That sounds pitiful even having to ask that...
i think you are confusing a few things at once.... if you look at the small picture then yes 2 incidents in 2 months this year alone, but if you look at the big picture then lets factor in 6 years of doing SMRs and only a handful of incidents. Look at it however you like, facts are facts and every group ride will have these type of incidents regardless of having or not having a rider's meeting.

people join our SMRs at their own risk! We do not guarantee anybody about not going down or getting a speeding ticket during the ride..... it is a risk we all take for riding on the street.

Again you seem to have this figured out so i really ask as a personal favor for you to come out and join us so you can show us how it's done. As a rider of a MC community you wouldnt refuse my personal invitation to show us how to prevent future accidents from happening right?
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Old 03-07-2011, 07:29 PM   #56
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I am far from a racer but i am always willing to teach people what i know, let me know whenever you get your bike!
It will be much appreciated, just this attitude alone will give me confidence to get back on a sporty... I was actually thinking about a cruiser because of my Newbness. I loved my sportbike but maybe because of my age I also recognizedy need for mentoring. So again thanks..

P.S. When I do get a new bike do I go back with a 1000 or higher, reason I ask I was told because of my size I would need to. (300lbs)
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Old 03-07-2011, 07:32 PM   #57
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It will be much appreciated, just this attitude alone will give me confidence to get back on a sporty... I was actually thinking about a cruiser because of my Newbness. I loved my sportbike but maybe because of my age I also recognizedy need for mentoring. So again thanks..

P.S. When I do get a new bike do I go back with a 1000 or higher, reason I ask I was told because of my size I would need to. (300lbs)
i think size of the engine doesnt really matter.
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Old 03-07-2011, 07:41 PM   #58
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So much to say, so little will be heard, but here's my best shot.

Great idea for a thread, not sure how effective it will be with the keyboard egos going on.

The only thing I will offer is that if you are a newb, DO NOT go on rides with more than about 6 bikes in the group.

You will feel pressure, you will give in to it eventually, and you will crash.

Ride in a smaller group with experienced riders that realize you are a newb and tell you it is cool by them that you join. I will wager you will always have one of the more experienced riders volunteer to sweep. Most see it as something they all need to rotate through if they are worth their salt.

Case in point GRSA went for a SMR ride I was on with TSBA (you can see my Bimota in the background of his avatar). I volutneered to sweep. I stayed with him the whole time until another bike had fuel issues and I headed back to get a truck in case it was needed.

Fact is, he was going much slower than the rest of the group (no offense intended to GRSA, great guy, cool bike), but he had zero peer pressure to speed up and/or ride above his limits. I think we might have asked what he thought he was running in the straights and let him know that his speedo was off.

He went out with a larger group and it happened. He is not the first and wont be the last to crash or run off the road due to these group mentalities. Anyone that has been riding in regular groups will hopefully agree with me on this. You have to adjust to new riders and hope they feel comfortable and get up to speed at their pace. There is also nothing wrong with telling a new rider that the pace will be fast and you prefer they do not join in if that is the case.

As for the leader's/organizer's impact on the group; if you don't realize your influence, then you aren't a true leader. Even on my ride last Sunday, the leader at times helped to hold the others in check (on 3090). I appreciate that and try to do the same if I am leading to meet the group needs. It will vary with what group I am riding with and what I know or don't know about them.

As a newb, use caution in where you taking your advice from individuals on these group rides. Some are more clueless than you would expect; you just may not have the knowledge base to know they are clueless. There are much better places to get guidance in most instances.
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Old 03-07-2011, 08:02 PM   #59
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33% chance of a crash on your SMR....I'll pass.
I will be setting up a ride to GSS for the March TD, or possibly a ride to Navasota/Forest. You're more than welcome to see how my rides are setup.

Just face it man, you leave out all the other riders besides your "regulars" with a caveat of "Ride at your own level/pace" instead of including them and general care of human well being.


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i think you are confusing a few things at once.... if you look at the small picture then yes 2 incidents in 2 months this year alone, but if you look at the big picture then lets factor in 6 years of doing SMRs and only a handful of incidents. Look at it however you like, facts are facts and every group ride will have these type of incidents regardless of having or not having a rider's meeting.

people join our SMRs at their own risk! We do not guarantee anybody about not going down or getting a speeding ticket during the ride..... it is a risk we all take for riding on the street.

Again you seem to have this figured out so i really ask as a personal favor for you to come out and join us so you can show us how it's done. As a rider of a MC community you wouldnt refuse my personal invitation to show us how to prevent future accidents from happening right?
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Old 03-07-2011, 08:03 PM   #60
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2. Unless i was involved directly in an accident i don't see how i could take responsibility for everybody that decides to join our SMRs and goes down. We are all adults here that purchased powerful and dangerous toys, it is ultimately your own decision and judgement to go at whatever speed you feel comfortable with! I am sure the dealer that sold you the bike did not ask you if you wanted to buy a box of common sense to go with the bike
and there in lies the problem. I've been exactly where you are, perhaps that's why it's clearer to me now.
 
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