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Old 03-01-2011, 12:53 PM   #21
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If the variables considered are adaptability and reaction time there is only one way to discern who is truly "fast"

Wake the rider at 3 A.M., immediately put them on a ruckus both blindfolded and backward, then set them loose on a course they have never rode. Then make them ride it in the reverse direction. Only then can their "fast"-ness be determined with any accuracy.
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Old 03-01-2011, 12:56 PM   #22
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Ben spies.
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Old 03-01-2011, 12:58 PM   #23
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Quote:
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Ben spies.
with the exception of Elbowz.

He learns tracks by making them look like animals...
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Old 03-01-2011, 01:00 PM   #24
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Quote:
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kinda like golf at your home course , you might shoot in the low 90"s there on a regular basis , but on other courses less played your score would flucuate some.
A rider that rides a regular route \ track will be more familar with the route or track & probably faster on that route , but if the rider has a good reaction time & riding skill he can still be fast on other routes or tracks in a quick learning time.
I Like the way you're thinking...

so lets say, if i shoot on the 70's and you know someone that plays at the same course and shoots in the 70's also. then at this point you can see who is better.

i'm fast becuase i have a bike...
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Old 03-01-2011, 01:04 PM   #25
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Quote:
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i'm fast becuase i have a bike...
Even that's false unfortunately. Search SW Lambo by Underground Racing...

It's all relative...
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Old 03-01-2011, 01:09 PM   #26
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I used to be pretty fast down the road leading into Fayetteville(1291) since I played on that road at least once a week, 4-6 times each time I was out there. I'm still decently quick out there, but not nearly the insane pace I used to run out there. I ride 3090/149 maybe once a year, and I don't go too fast out there because I don't KNOW what the road does around the next corner.
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Old 03-01-2011, 01:14 PM   #27
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the best way to find out who is faster then the other is... put them in the same bike and the same track (that they never been there before) and then we can see who is faster.

but over all, knowing the place that you ride will make you faster then having someone that never been there before.

THERE WILL BE ALWAYS SOMEONE FASTER AND BETTER THEN YOU! ALWAYS....
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Old 03-01-2011, 01:20 PM   #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kibitzer View Post
Slow compared to the top 10.

Concept still applies.

The concept only applies to a certain extent, that is what I am trying to say. For you and I, it does apply, we are mere mortals but, there is a point, that when crossed, a person is fast, period.

Per instance, Jake Holden was testing a new bike and tires at MSR Cresson last weekend. It was his first time at Cresson and run a 1:17.. That time would have put him on a podium at most expert classes in a CMRA race. It was his first time at the track and was running times that many experts, with multiple laps at Cresson, are running, why? Because he is fast.

If everything was relatively as suggested, It wouldn't matter that Valentino Rossi was more talented and faster than, probably, 95% of the people that race motorcycles, since he lost to Lorenzo last year, he would be slow MF, using that concept, right?

Fast is fast, period.

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Irak, I completely agree.
But, I'm thinking more along the lines of, Ty Howard is fast at MSRH (recordholder) would he be a record-holder at Mugello only because we know he's fast at MSRH?
There is a similar thread on HPC. Ty Howard commented on it giving a very valuable insight on what is needed for a rider to go fast. You may want to check it out, it is actually pretty good.
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Old 03-01-2011, 01:23 PM   #29
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LINK??^^
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Old 03-01-2011, 01:27 PM   #30
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Im slow everywhere.
Me too!

but it feels fast to MEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE!!!!!!!
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Old 03-01-2011, 01:30 PM   #31
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My gut tells me that you have to seperate track from street entirely. To me fast on the street has very little to do with skill on a motorcycle, and a whole lot to do with disregard for survival.


Case in point: some of the fastest on this sight either crawl/cruise on the street.............or simply avoid it altogether.
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Old 03-01-2011, 01:31 PM   #32
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Don't forget the comfort level with your current bike/set-up. If you're fast on track X, and you're comfortable with your current suspension set-up, tires, etc. and you go to track Y, you may have to change that set-up, which may affect your time as well.
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Old 03-01-2011, 01:34 PM   #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Irak View Post
The concept only applies to a certain extent, that is what I am trying to say. For you and I, it does apply, we are mere mortals but, there is a point, that when crossed, a person is fast, period.

Per instance, Jake Holden was testing a new bike and tires at MSR Cresson last weekend. It was his first time at Cresson and run a 1:17.. That time would have put him on a podium at most expert classes in a CMRA race. It was his first time at the track and was running times that many experts, with multiple laps at Cresson, are running, why? Because he is fast.

If everything was relatively as suggested, It wouldn't matter that Valentino Rossi was more talented and faster than, probably, 95% of the people that race motorcycles, since he lost to Lorenzo last year, he would be slow MF, using that concept, right?

Fast is fast, period.
A lot of text to say that all of these people are fast in relation to someone else. Noticing a pattern yet?
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Old 03-01-2011, 01:44 PM   #34
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i'll throw something in... memory is shows in top riders

first GP back at Leguna Seca.. 1 - 2 the americans who know the track

Next point.. Rossi came in 3rd having never been on the track

Rossi is just a bad- and totally kills my point.. nevermind
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Old 03-01-2011, 01:45 PM   #35
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I have a cool analogy...

Put me and Rossi in a newly constructed, lit tunnel "track", full of straights and twisties, and of course no speed signs or indications.

For both me and Rossi, there can only be ONE of TWO outcomes:
1) go slower than we actually can
2) crash somewhere

However, Rossi will still smoke me, on the first and last times through this track, because he has way MORE SKILL and BETTER REACTION... ex out of what little he can see of the curve he can make a better speed/lean judgement, and also correct himself faster once he sees the curve steepening or widening.

So in essense familiarity makes a big difference, but skill/reaction are transferrable to any environment. I say all this with no experience whatsoever in a track
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Old 03-01-2011, 02:03 PM   #36
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Quote:
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There is a similar thread on HPC. Ty Howard commented on it giving a very valuable insight on what is needed for a rider to go fast. You may want to check it out, it is actually pretty good.
+1 on link. I want to check it out.
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Old 03-01-2011, 02:12 PM   #37
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..
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Old 03-01-2011, 02:18 PM   #38
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Old 03-01-2011, 02:20 PM   #39
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.........
i'm just Jking!
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Old 03-01-2011, 02:36 PM   #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kibitzer View Post
A lot of text to say that all of these people are fast in relation to someone else. Noticing a pattern yet?
Yes, Mr. Einstein, everything in life can be solved with E=MC^2. That being said, there are no rich people nor intelligent people, etc.

Quote:
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+1 on link. I want to check it out.
HPC > Moto Talk > Track Day Riders > How fast are the fast guys?
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