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Old 08-23-2006, 01:39 PM   #81
CaJuNsOuLjA
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Quote:
Originally Posted by law750
Mustard and Serin are classified as WMD's . . .
That we knew Sadaam had, mostly because we supplied him with them. Somehow I doubt though, that Bush, Rumsfeld, Rove and others were implying those weapons as a reason to invade Iraq. I get the feeling they were referring to nukes.
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Old 08-23-2006, 01:41 PM   #82
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That's why I think Bush is a liar: There was no imminent threat posed by Iraq. However, they OBVIOUSLY had w'smd. So get the accusations right, and I'll quit being picky, everybody -- ha
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Old 08-23-2006, 01:50 PM   #83
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That's why I think Bush is a liar: There was no imminent threat posed by Iraq. However, they OBVIOUSLY had w'smd. So get the accusations right, and I'll quit being picky, everybody -- ha
How did I ever get "the accusations" wrong?
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Old 08-23-2006, 01:58 PM   #84
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I'm not sure that you did - I said "everybody", because the mistake is so prolific. People get it wrong when they say Bush lied about W'sMD, because as you said, we sold them to him, and he's on trial for killing somewhere between 50-150 thousand ppl with them right now (that's in one attack). So, it's wrong to make that blatantly false accusation, but right to note that since we supplied him with the weapons, it's silly to make it seem like he threatens us with them. Even if he does, whose fault would that be? I meant no offense to you . . . I have no idea if you are an adherent to the popular myth or not -- apologies for ambiguity
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Old 08-23-2006, 02:13 PM   #85
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Thank you for clearing that up...I imagine we are viewing things from a similar perspective
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Old 08-23-2006, 02:40 PM   #86
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Quote:
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... we sold them to him, and he's on trial for killing somewhere between 50-150 thousand ppl with them right now (that's in one attack).

But again, why do we think it's our place to do something about this? So what if Saddam was gassing his own people. It's not like he was out to take over the world.
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Old 08-23-2006, 02:44 PM   #87
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ha . . . of course he was. I mean he's delusional, but he was certainly thinking about world domination according many close to him. But, that doesn't make it right for us to go invade. I was against it when it started, but am glad the old man is out of power anyway, and would like to see this resolved in a positive way for the US
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Old 08-23-2006, 05:29 PM   #88
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The WMD's Bush was alluding to prior to us invading Iraq was not the gas left over from the Iraq-Iran war, we knew about that, which is why the 'discovery' of it in June was such a non-issue. The WMD that Saddam was accused of having was post 1990 acquired WMD, which have not been found and for which the search has ended.

Yes, Saddam is being accused of genocide via his use of chemical weapons on the Kurds. But he also used them on Iran, several times. Why is he being prosecuted for the use of gas on the Kurds but not the Iranians? Because he was our partner in the Iran-Iraq war and by prosecuting him for war crimes he committed with the full knowledge and consent (and our gas at that) we would be implicating ourselves. Notice that in the run-up to the invasion Bush never talked about his use of gas on Iran, just his use against "his own people".

In my opinion, as long as the Palestinians are not at peace, one way or another, with the Israelis, there will not be any peace in the middle east and the US will be viewed as unwelcome due to our support of the Israelis.

Look, the Palestinians got kicked out of their country by the Israelis (with the support of the West) after WWII. Of course the Israelis were all (or most anyway) kicked out of various countries in Europe, so they were fighting for survival. Somewhere between 700K-million people displaced out of their homes from the Palestinian Mandate area (set up after WWI). They are and thus we have Hezbullah and all the rest. There is no easy solution, and perhaps no hard solution either. We sure as are not the solution.

So, if our objective is Peace, forget it. It's a fool's dream. If our objective is relative stability, that's another matter and we get the mess of the last 50 years of backing whichever SOB happens to be in our interest at the moment (Iran in the 50's-70's, Iraq in the 80's, and all along Egypt and Israel). That kind of diplomacy puts us in bed with some very, very bad people and creates messes we have to live with later.

In my opinion, the only way to divorce ourselves from the Mideast is to write of Israel to its own defense and put every effort into becoming energy self sufficient. As long as stability in the middle east is of national interest to us, we will be stuck in this quagmire.
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Old 08-23-2006, 05:40 PM   #89
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I would agree with that analysis except for two MINOR things:

a) I am not denying that we knew, sold, and covered up Saddam's W'sMD. All I am saying, is THAT HE HAD THEM! So, either he did or not, and he in fact did. The proof is as clear now as it was in 1988. I agree with you that he should be tried for what went on with Iran. Perhaps he will be. Probably not.

b) I am not certain that "writing off Israel to its own defense" is smart. I think it would immediately be overtaken by terrorists, and we would have abandoned YEARS of alliance with this nation that has stood by us as well AND we would have abandoned our stated principles in the mid east. In essence, it would be admitting defeat. WHY? We CAN win. We are powerful enough to put things on our own terms. I think we ought to explore more options.

My two cents. Calamari . . . you and I will do this forever. Good show --
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