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Old 08-17-2006, 02:45 PM   #61
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Quote:
Originally Posted by speedismo
did u mean grammar?
your to smart for me
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Old 08-17-2006, 02:45 PM   #62
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Quote:
Originally Posted by speedismo
plz explain, scientifically, how braking, when leaned over stabilizes. and let me tell u that standing over is not stablization. a bike is as stable ding a turn at constant speed and radius, as it is going striahgt on a striaght. simple physics mr.MSF. or do u want me to post the formula for a bike in a lean?
yes the bike is stable in a turn, as you apply PROPER braking it gets verticle and is still stable.

yes, if your over exert the brakes, you'll tuck the ft or loose the rear.

Quote:
if u have ever gone too hot into a corner, u will know there is no time for "light to mid application " in a corner, esp when u r a noob. its usually, always TOO much.
agreed. we really wern't discussing noob or experienced riders......we were discussing de-stabilized.
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Old 08-17-2006, 02:47 PM   #63
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ya that doesnt make much sense racer godx, from what ive been taught you go into a corner, your suspension compresses so your shocks are taking the load of the centripical force which is keeping the bike carving the turn. messing with the brakes while the suspension is absorbing the weight will disrupt the bikes suspension in return your bike is not stabalized.. applying brakes gently while leaned over might not cause you to wreck, just load the suspension up more if your tires r sticking and your getting good feedback you can get away with this.. if you applied and got off the brakes the springs r moving up and down while taking centripcal force and off you go.
i know your word is gold but even you cant change the physics of something.
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Old 08-17-2006, 02:49 PM   #64
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[QUOTE=RACER X]yes the bike is stable in a turn, as you apply PROPER braking it gets verticle and is still stable....QUOTE]

So what happens during improper braking ? Results in "de-stabilization" right ?
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Old 08-17-2006, 02:51 PM   #65
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Buck Nasty
just load the suspension up more if your tires r sticking and your getting good feedback you can get away with this..
there's my point

Quote:
if you applied and got off the brakes the springs r moving up and down while taking centripcal force and off you go.
i
agreed
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Old 08-17-2006, 02:52 PM   #66
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CaJuNsOuLjA

So what happens during improper braking ? Results in "de-stabilization" right ?
crashing happens........thats diff. then destabilized.........lol
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Old 08-17-2006, 02:58 PM   #67
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If crashing (or the events leading up to it) doesn't constitute de-stabilization in your opinion, then we have nothing further to discuss...
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Old 08-17-2006, 03:00 PM   #68
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crashing, thats de-horsed brutha........destabilized is out-of-sorts but still on the bike.
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Old 08-17-2006, 03:04 PM   #69
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here;s destabilized,

at the point he's off the bike, he's now crashed.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C6ISgdhbyBk
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Old 08-17-2006, 03:04 PM   #70
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RACER X
crashing, thats de-horsed brutha....
Agreed.

Quote:
Originally Posted by RACER X
....destabilized is out-of-sorts but still on the bike.
Agreed.

But then again, when did I get into crashing...all along, I coulda swore...I was arguing that "when-you-brake-in-a-curve...the-bike-gets-de-stabilized...hmh...interestin idea...
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Old 08-17-2006, 03:05 PM   #71
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The Definition of Destabilized

de·sta·bi·lize ( P ) Pronunciation Key (d-stb-lz)
tr.v. de·sta·bi·lized, de·sta·bi·liz·ing, de·sta·bi·liz·es
To upset the stability or smooth functioning of: a policy that threatens to destabilize the economy; a new weapon that threatens to destabilize nuclear deterrence.
To undermine the power of (a government or leader) by subversive or terrorist acts.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
de·stabi·li·zation (-l-zshn) n.
Destabilization

n 1: an event that causes a loss of equilibrium (as of a ship or aircraft) 2: the action of destabilizing; making something less stable (especially of a government or country or economy) [syn: destabilisation] [ant: stabilization]
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Old 08-17-2006, 03:15 PM   #72
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not sure if you saw this..........

ok........at first when he goes into a tank slapper he's destabilized.......

the millesecond he's off the bike, it's a crash

if he were to have saved the bike, it's now stabilized.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C6ISgdhbyBk

you friend braking in a corner never wobbled ( destabilized ) he would either

tuck the ft or rear (crash) or got it vertical and ran off the road (crash)
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Old 08-17-2006, 03:24 PM   #73
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RACER X
not sure if you saw this..........
ok........at first when he goes into a tank slapper he's destabilized.......
the millesecond he's off the bike, it's a crash
if he were to have saved the bike, it's now stabilized.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C6ISgdhbyBk
you friend braking in a corner never wobbled ( destabilized ) he would either
tuck the ft or rear (crash) or got it vertical and ran off the road (crash)
Couldn't see the video because I'm at work and we have certain domains/urls blocked. But...in the case of my friend...he was leaned over, got scared, pressed the brake, released the brake and crashed.

This is the definition of de·sta·bi·lize

To upset the stability or smooth functioning of: a policy that threatens to destabilize the economy; a new weapon that threatens to destabilize nuclear deterrence.

To undermine the power of (a government or leader) by subversive or terrorist acts.

If this is not a sufficient enough to prompt you to realize that while in a curve: braking, (enter effect here) and then crashing is not an effect of destabilization...then we should probably agree to disagree as we are both strongly holding on to our arguements. I base what I am saying on the laws of physics...either agree or don't. In the end, I don't care...
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Old 08-17-2006, 03:26 PM   #74
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How in the heck would you correct wobbles like that, at that high of a speed other than letting off of the gas and losening your grip a bit?
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Old 08-17-2006, 03:28 PM   #75
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well watch it when you get home. it might open your eyes. to stability an instability.
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Old 08-17-2006, 03:29 PM   #76
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Swift E
How in the heck would you correct wobbles like that, at that high of a speed other than letting off of the gas and losening your grip a bit?
there is no exact formula other then pray to your for your to survive........lol

some say loosen the grip

other say get on the gas and get the ft wheel of the ground.

easiest, get a steering damper and don't cross your ft tire when coming down.
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Old 08-17-2006, 03:32 PM   #77
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RACER X
well watch it when you get home. it might open your eyes. to stability an instability.
I sincerely doubt it...remember, we're not discussing degrees of stability/instability. I am simply arguing that when you press your brake in a curve...you destabilize the bike.
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Old 08-17-2006, 03:35 PM   #78
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...I wonder what the other track guys in here think. I may make a closed poll. Is that a possibility? I want it closed so that we can limit the responses to individuals with actual knowledge.
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Old 08-17-2006, 03:42 PM   #79
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to much brake in a curve is not a good thing i know that from my msf class
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Old 08-17-2006, 04:12 PM   #80
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According to Newton's First Law of Motion:

An object at rest tends to stay at rest and an object in motion tends to stay in motion with the same speed and in the same direction unless acted upon by an unbalanced force.

Well what is an unbalanced force?
If two individual forces acting on an object are of equal magnitude and opposite direction, then these forces are said to be balanced. An object is said to be "acted upon by an unbalanced force" only when there is an individual force acting on the object which is not balanced by another force of equal magnitude and in the opposite direction .

With consideration to the latter, and in considering that a bike is in a stable state when leaning for a curve (prime conditions and other applications pending)...any level minded individual will agree that applying a brake interrupts the stable state that the motorcycle enjoys while in a curve. This stable state can be observed by the rider when he enjoys a balance of centripetal force and centrifugal force. Any interruption to the balance of these forces (i.e. braking) will result in unbalanced forces or as I would contest, destabilization of said vehicle. Hopefully this is clear enough for those of you reading this discussion. If you lack confidence in my version of Newtons 1st law of motion...do a lil research and you'll find that it is consistant with all other credible versions...
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