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Old 08-17-2006, 02:05 PM   #41
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1) ...if you brake in the curve, you de-stabilize the bike putting into motion some very adverse effects

that is what you wrote.......and it's wrong........the bike gets very stable.....just upright.

2) "ima guess he never took the MSF." now if i had YOU, then i'd be directing the comment at YOU (cajun)

:eh: reading comprehension
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Old 08-17-2006, 02:11 PM   #42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RACER X
1) ...if you brake in the curve, you de-stabilize the bike putting into motion some very adverse effects

that is what you wrote.......and it's wrong........the bike gets very stable.....just upright.
According to you...

However, according to the fella that taught the course that I took here on Ft. Hood...breaking "de-stabilizes" the bike...I'll do a lil research...we'll see

[QUOTE =RACER X]
2) "ima guess he never took the MSF."

:eh: reading comprehension[/QUOTE]

I realize I'm male and I'm sure most here do...but that was obvious an error in your judgement
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Old 08-17-2006, 02:11 PM   #43
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*obviously
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Old 08-17-2006, 02:16 PM   #44
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1 of 2 things happen when you apply the brakes in a corner.

1) you tuck the ft end, and off into the weeds you go.

2) it brings the bike vertical, therby making the bike straight up, and go in a straight line. then you go off into the weeds.

HE crashed cuz he didn't know that and prolly hadn't taken the MSF and did #2. YOU knew and took the MSF class and did the right thing.

and were not getting into trail-braking, cuz it'll make alot of people crash. but that doesn't destabilize the bike either. in fact the opposite.
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Old 08-17-2006, 02:21 PM   #45
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I realize there are some credibility issues when it comes to sources on the web but I offer you this...

According to this site http://www.whybike.com/motorcycle232.htm
Quote:
Braking in a Curve
The important thing to remember about braking in a curve is that the amount of traction available to you and your tires is reduced. Why? well this is because there is a limited amount of grip (surface area of the tire) existing between the tires and the road surface when the motorcycle is in a leaning over position. Now the key to stopping quickly in a curve is to get the motorcycle in an upright straight position as soon as possible. Time is distance, do it quickly. You want to do this so that the maximum amount of traction is available for braking. By uprighting the bike, more surface area of the tire will be in contact with the road. If road and traffic conditions allow, straighten up the motorcycle first and center or square the handlebar before you apply maximum braking. You will now be making a Straight-line stop.

Ok, there may be a time when conditions do not allow you to straighten out your bike and time to square your handlebar. These are, running off the road in a left-hand turn (me, I did this) or dealing with the oncoming traffic in a right-hand turn. In these conditions, you will need to apply both brakes smoothly and easy. Do not slam down on the brake controls, this will most likely cause you to lock up one or both tires and cause you a world of problems such as going down. As you gradually apply the brakes, the lean angle will be reduced into a more upright position; as this occurs apply more braking force.

The goal is to have the motorcycle straight up at the end of a stop. Remember, this is the reason you want to center up the handlebar as you near the end of the stop.
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Old 08-17-2006, 02:21 PM   #46
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RACER X
1) ...if you brake in the curve, you de-stabilize the bike putting into motion some very adverse effects

that is what you wrote.......and it's wrong........the bike gets very stable.....just upright.
??????
which bike gets stable and upright when braked while leaned over? whichever brake u use, u gonna loose traction and the tire is gonna give out if its too much braking. u will then lowside.
if u grab a handful of brake, and then let go when the tire starts giving out, then tire is goin to abruptly catch traction and most probably, highside u.

braking wld make u upright if tire traction were not part of the equation..the way rolling off on gas does. or if u used the brakes just lightly..which doesnt happen when u r panicking.
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Old 08-17-2006, 02:26 PM   #47
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have you happended to read what i'm posting, cuz it's exactly what you've posted.


not sure what we're arguing.........i'm talking destabilizing. your talking stopping.
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Old 08-17-2006, 02:26 PM   #48
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...I'm not gonna sit here and argue wit you but lets not sit here and claim to know the "limited" possiblities to a course of action...I'm sure the effects of braking are not limited to only two possibilities as there are certain tangibles and intangibles that one must consider before coming to any conclusion regarding the effects of the latter, such as: Which brake was applied? (Do I have integrated brakes?), Was more pressure applied to one brake than the other?, Tire condition?, Tire Temp.?, etc...
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Old 08-17-2006, 02:27 PM   #49
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Quote:
Originally Posted by speedismo
??????
which bike gets stable and upright when braked while leaned over? whichever brake u use, u gonna loose traction and the tire is gonna give out if its too much braking. u will then lowside.
if u grab a handful of brake, and then let go when the tire starts giving out, then tire is goin to abruptly catch traction and most probably, highside u.

braking wld make u upright if tire traction were not part of the equation..the way rolling off on gas does. or if u used the brakes just lightly..which doesnt happen when u r panicking.
+1
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Old 08-17-2006, 02:31 PM   #50
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Quote:
Originally Posted by speedismo
??????
which bike gets stable and upright when braked while leaned over?
all bikes

Quote:
whichever brake u use, u gonna loose traction
thats not automatic.........now if you grab TOO much brake YES your ft or rear will slide out. otherwise light to mid application will bring your bike vertical

Quote:
and the tire is gonna give out if its too much braking. u will then lowside.
agreed


Quote:
if u grab a handful of brake, and then let go when the tire starts giving out, then tire is goin to abruptly catch traction and most probably, highside u.
agreed
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Old 08-17-2006, 02:32 PM   #51
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RACER X
have you happended to read what i'm posting, cuz it's exactly what you've posted.
dint sound same to me. but ok if u say so.
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Old 08-17-2006, 02:34 PM   #52
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RACER X
have you happended to read what i'm posting, cuz it's exactly what you've posted.


not sure what we're arguing.........i'm talking destabilizing. your talking stopping.
not according this post which was one post before mines...

as evidenced here...
Quote:
Originally Posted by RACER X
1 of 2 things happen when you apply the brakes in a corner.

1) you tuck the ft end, and off into the weeds you go.

2) it brings the bike vertical, therby making the bike straight up, and go in a straight line. then you go off into the weeds.

HE crashed cuz he didn't know that and prolly hadn't taken the MSF and did #2. YOU knew and took the MSF class and did the right thing.

and were not getting into trail-braking, cuz it'll make alot of people crash. but that doesn't destabilize the bike either. in fact the opposite.
I do wonder why we are even really discussing this though because we do, in fact, happen to agree and as far as De-stabilize/Stabilize...simple semantics man...semantics
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Old 08-17-2006, 02:36 PM   #53
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its actually terminology.

so had your friend taken the MSF class?
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Old 08-17-2006, 02:40 PM   #54
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RACER X
all bikes
plz explain, scientifically, how braking, when leaned over stabilizes. and let me tell u that standing over is not stablization. a bike is as stable ding a turn at constant speed and radius, as it is going striahgt on a striaght. simple physics mr.MSF. or do u want me to post the formula for a bike in a lean?

Quote:
Originally Posted by RACER X
thats not automatic.........now if you grab TOO much brake YES your ft or rear will slide out. otherwise light to mid application will bring your bike vertical
if u have ever gone too hot into a corner, u will know there is no time for "light to mid application " in a corner, esp when u r a noob. its usually, always TOO much.
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Old 08-17-2006, 02:42 PM   #55
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Depends on what constitutes each term to you. But I will still hold on to the thought that braking in a curve destabilizes the bike until given credible evidence to the contrary. But nope, he hadn't taken it. Needs to really bad though because it was IMO an extremely easily preventable accident...
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Old 08-17-2006, 02:43 PM   #56
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if you ask me grammer is not really that important anyway
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Old 08-17-2006, 02:44 PM   #57
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Quote:
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if you ask me grammer is not really that important anyway
did u mean grammar?
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Old 08-17-2006, 02:44 PM   #58
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[QUOTE=speedismo]plz explain, scientifically, how braking, when leaned over stabilizes. and let me tell u that standing over is not stablization. a bike is as stable ding a turn at constant speed and radius, as it is going striahgt on a striaght. simple physics...QUOTE]

LMAO...I was trying to stay away from that but I see we're coming from the same perspective....
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Old 08-17-2006, 02:45 PM   #59
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Quote:
Originally Posted by speedismo
did u mean grammar?
:laughing4
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Old 08-17-2006, 02:45 PM   #60
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Quote:
Originally Posted by speedismo
plz explain, scientifically, how braking, when leaned over stabilizes. and let me tell u that standing over is not stablization. a bike is as stable ding a turn at constant speed and radius, as it is going striahgt on a striaght. simple physics mr.MSF. or do u want me to post the formula for a bike in a lean?



if u have ever gone too hot into a corner, u will know there is no time for "light to mid application " in a corner, esp when u r a noob. its usually, always TOO much.
thanks for getting racer x's point across, if he had taken the msf and done the emergancy braking in a turn drills that they make you do. he would not have been to freaked out when it happend because he would have had a little practice
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