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Old 12-09-2010, 09:29 PM   #21
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the ethanol formulation in gas in the Houston area has not changed in the last five years so that is not the likely problem.

You sure he didn't a tank of gas that set up in the tank and is now being dissolved slowly by the ethanol in the gas so it keeps clogging it up?

Have you totally flushed the tank and changed the fuel lines on the bike cause if that hasn't been done it would be the first thing I would do next?
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Old 12-09-2010, 09:35 PM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FJRmgm View Post
the ethanol formulation in gas in the Houston area has not changed in the last five years so that is not the likely problem.
quite plausible.

allthought I havent really ridden my bike in the street lately, I have started tinkering with it.

Crashed it last feb, and it has sat with a full tank of gas. (I didnt care at that point) last week i drained out the orange gas, (surprisingly NO GUNK/VARNISH and inspected the carbs. re-flushed everything with new gas. Filled the tank up, and once the carbs got fuel, she fired right up.

again, I havent been on any "real street rides" yet, but I have been tooling it around the block
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Old 12-09-2010, 10:50 PM   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FJRmgm View Post
the ethanol formulation in gas in the Houston area has not changed in the last five years so that is not the likely problem.

You sure he didn't a tank of gas that set up in the tank and is now being dissolved slowly by the ethanol in the gas so it keeps clogging it up?

Have you totally flushed the tank and changed the fuel lines on the bike cause if that hasn't been done it would be the first thing I would do next?

Hi Mike! Long time no hear....

Honestly, I am not sure if the shop flushed the tank or not but......This thing has had no less then 20 tanks of fuel run through it since its initial running issue began in June.....Like I mentioned, it has been ridden at least 7000 miles since this started in less then 6 months. This thing rarely sits more then 1 week without being ran.... But I am reading/hearing that if it sits for even two weeks, the carbs can start to varnish up.....

I am just stumped....I haven't had the carbs off myself yet, I didn't want to get involved with it honestly....I recommended he buy the bike initially as it ran perfect....then he has problems....then I recommend a GOOD, reputable local shop and the bike has been there 3 times for the same issue and he has spent a good $600+ on this and its acting up again...

If it screws up on our all day ride on sunday, I will definitely tear into it myself and see what I find.
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Old 12-10-2010, 12:24 AM   #24
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I've been experienceing the same on my '05 YZF lately (past year). I only ride it a couple times a month. I did a full carb teardown and cleaning 300 miles ago and it ran like new. Bike sat for 3 weeks, then started collapsing idle again. I may look at the fuel lines and do a tank cleaning over the holidays, or I may just ride it (I'm on vacation for the rest of the year ).

The bike has almost 70K on it and is due for a tune up, so I am not ready to blame this on ethanol. I am pretty sure it is pilot jets plugging, as it runs perfectly off idle. I'll just rev it like a squid at stoplights until I am ready to take a closer look.

I think my problem is more due to a long period last year letting the bike sit without stabilizer. I had immediate idle issues and never did anything about the tank. I think fresh fuel is just flushing old varnish/gel/trash from my tank back to the pilot jets. Has your friend's tank been cleaned?
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Old 12-10-2010, 08:20 AM   #25
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I have been having the same problem since August this year. At 3000 - 3500rpms, I get the sputter and bike sounds as if I need to shift-up. At higher speeds, I don't get the sputter, but bike still sounds like I need to shift-up. I can ride @ anything higher or lower and she sounds good and no sputter. After changing fuel stations, changing octane from high grade to mid grade, sea foam... I thought that it was the VooDoo exhaust that I installed at the beginning of the year (had no problems back then though)...Voodoo had recommended a 4 into 1 PC. I ride 350 - 500 miles per week and I am still having the same problem. Running the Busa last Friday night did help my idle get back on track though, but I still get the sputter and high rpm sound.
I am looking into the baffle up-grade for the voodoos (cheaper alternative), but not sure what to do next.
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Old 12-10-2010, 02:19 PM   #26
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I actually had to turn around this morning after the bike died on me. Sputter was normal when I left around 4-5k rpm but once I started going faster it got worse and worse. Until I had to come to a stop and it died, it would'nt start at first so I was walking with it for a minute and tried again and it started. Made it home with it sounding like it was running on 2 cylinders. Going to tear into it tonight and replace the fuel lines and filter check the bowls for varnish, hopefully be back on the road this weekend. Are there any gas stations that don't have ethanol impregnated fuel? If that is the problem
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Old 12-10-2010, 02:48 PM   #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 7cain View Post
I actually had to turn around this morning after the bike died on me. Sputter was normal when I left around 4-5k rpm but once I started going faster it got worse and worse. Until I had to come to a stop and it died, it would'nt start at first so I was walking with it for a minute and tried again and it started. Made it home with it sounding like it was running on 2 cylinders. Going to tear into it tonight and replace the fuel lines and filter check the bowls for varnish, hopefully be back on the road this weekend. Are there any gas stations that don't have ethanol impregnated fuel? If that is the problem
The Houston area is a non-EPA smog compliant region. I don't think you will be able to find any non-adulterated gas unless you have an off road/track (aviation maybe?) only fuel source.
Good luck.
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Old 12-10-2010, 03:16 PM   #28
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Quote:
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it's the ethenol in gas that's throwing the carbs. I would be willing to bet that's the problem.

I konw alot of peeps with older carbed bikes that are having with their carbs becuase of ethenol in gas. They were even told that some shops can't guarantee carb work for more than a week just becuase of ethenol.
I am kind of new to understanding Ethenol , what is it exactly supposed to do ?
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Old 12-10-2010, 03:28 PM   #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BusaFlo View Post
I have been having the same problem since August this year. At 3000 - 3500rpms, I get the sputter and bike sounds as if I need to shift-up. At higher speeds, I don't get the sputter, but bike still sounds like I need to shift-up. I can ride @ anything higher or lower and she sounds good and no sputter. After changing fuel stations, changing octane from high grade to mid grade, sea foam... I thought that it was the VooDoo exhaust that I installed at the beginning of the year (had no problems back then though)...Voodoo had recommended a 4 into 1 PC. I ride 350 - 500 miles per week and I am still having the same problem. Running the Busa last Friday night did help my idle get back on track though, but I still get the sputter and high rpm sound.
I am looking into the baffle up-grade for the voodoos (cheaper alternative), but not sure what to do next.

your bike is FI... you should have no issues. have you a power commander on the busa?
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Old 12-10-2010, 03:35 PM   #30
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I am kind of new to understanding Ethenol , what is it exactly supposed to do ?
Reduces smog and doesn't taste bad () like MTBE.

Problems come in with the lean condition caused by the ethanol causing high engine temps and loss of power/mileage. But the main problem is that ethanol is a solvent and will eat many forms of rubber. Rubber which is used in fuel lines and seals. Additionally formation of some nasty byproducts (formaldehyde, etc.) makes many scientists not like its use in transportation.

All of that being said the issue at hand here is the formation of lacquers throughout the fuel systems. It causes restriction in your bike like that two double whopper with large fries is doing to your arteries. So these guys are basically giving their bike heart bypass surgery every time it gets clogged. To make maters even worse these lacquers are much more resistant to typical carb cleaner than the old style buildups. This makes cleaning them a and insuring they are clean when you are done problematic.

My solution? Ride more. (I know, that's not practical, but since when did I say I was practical?)
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Old 12-10-2010, 03:51 PM   #31
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your bike is FI... you should have no issues. have you a power commander on the busa?
+1


His issue is those goofy short pipes and no tuning.....Get it to Billy over at Tejas and let him map it for you. Also change exhaust systems before you go.....




As for the rest of the carb'd bikes here.....So far it seems 50/50.....some have problems, some don't..... I know this is highly dependent on usage, how long they sit etc etc...

I just wanted a general idea if this is a common occurance. Sucks because carbureators are normally so reliable and efficient....now this stupid fuel is them up.....Ironically I have both my FI bikes sitting for weeks/months at a time on a tank of Valero fuel and they always fire right up and run perfect...you would think that this fuel would plug injector screens and nozzles also..
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Old 12-10-2010, 03:56 PM   #32
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I think the higher pressures assocoated with FI pushes the through better
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Old 12-10-2010, 04:53 PM   #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by spartandude View Post
Reduces smog and doesn't taste bad () like MTBE.

Problems come in with the lean condition caused by the ethanol causing high engine temps and loss of power/mileage. But the main problem is that ethanol is a solvent and will eat many forms of rubber. Rubber which is used in fuel lines and seals. Additionally formation of some nasty byproducts (formaldehyde, etc.) makes many scientists not like its use in transportation.

All of that being said the issue at hand here is the formation of lacquers throughout the fuel systems. It causes restriction in your bike like that two double whopper with large fries is doing to your arteries. So these guys are basically giving their bike heart bypass surgery every time it gets clogged. To make maters even worse these lacquers are much more resistant to typical carb cleaner than the old style buildups. This makes cleaning them a and insuring they are clean when you are done problematic.

My solution? Ride more. (I know, that's not practical, but since when did I say I was practical?)
Thanks, for the info , I have been enlighten .
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Old 12-10-2010, 06:35 PM   #34
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It's the ethanol. More specifically it's the additives because of the ethanol.
Ethanol has a few bad things going on; it is a moisture attractant, meaning it will leech moisture out of the air.
The ethanol attacks rubber and plastic components.
It has a fast evaporative rate.
It has a low lubricity, as a result the additives are run up to 50 higher per both friends at Shell and Exxon.
When the ethanol evaporates the additives form a "varnish" that is very thick, clogging pilot circuits, pilot jets.

The Bandits are particularly sensitive to this as they have a very tiny pilot circuit compared to a lot of other bikes. I've had the carbs out of mine at least 4 times this year if I let it sit up more than 3 weeks. I've taken to draining the fuel bowls if I'm not going to ride it for a while.
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Old 12-10-2010, 06:36 PM   #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FJRmgm View Post
the ethanol formulation in gas in the Houston area has not changed in the last five years so that is not the likely problem.

You sure he didn't a tank of gas that set up in the tank and is now being dissolved slowly by the ethanol in the gas so it keeps clogging it up?

Have you totally flushed the tank and changed the fuel lines on the bike cause if that hasn't been done it would be the first thing I would do next?
The formulation hasn't changed, but the additives have per both Shell and Exxon, I can't speak to other brands.
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Old 12-10-2010, 11:31 PM   #36
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My friends in the biz also sya we are up from 10% ethanol to as much as 13 already in the Houston area.
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Old 12-11-2010, 02:25 AM   #37
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Lots of possibilities but my guess is the ethanol is cleaning the out of the tank and running it through the carbs. Maybe clean/empty the tank/lines,etc. and see if it keeps happening...
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Old 12-11-2010, 06:00 AM   #38
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My carbed YZF600r has been fine, not any issues. I notice that it does start to run a little rough if I do not use Marine Stabilize in it. I have a feeling that it has to do with moisture. If you think about it small tank, right on top of engine, going from cold to hot fairly quickly like that will make some condensation.

That or the more likely explanation is that it is a government conspiracy to ruin your motorcycle and force you to buy a smart car.
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Old 12-11-2010, 06:34 AM   #39
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Does he have an inline fuel filter? maybe rust from the tank is clogging it. does he store it with a full tank of gas?
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Old 12-12-2010, 11:13 PM   #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by spartandude View Post
The Houston area is a non-EPA smog compliant region. I don't think you will be able to find any non-adulterated gas unless you have an off road/track (aviation maybe?) only fuel source.
Good luck.
that makes me want to move back to the hill country where I had access to the airport fuel! Had to move back to Houston because of the economy.
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