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Old 11-14-2010, 02:01 AM   #41
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Grimace View Post
Good read. What is weird to me is that more recently designed bikes with a higher level of performance run on 87 just fine. Like Bluewave's 08 Busa, and others who have posted on this thread.
There are several factors that can cause "ping". I think the problem you have may be caused by the +4 advance you said you have.
If your bike was stock I think regular gas (87 octane) would be fine.
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Old 11-14-2010, 02:03 AM   #42
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agreed.
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Old 11-14-2010, 08:20 AM   #43
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In my racebike, I ran race gas, on race day. The bike was tuned for it. On track days, I used prem pump gas. It ran rich on pump gas and was slightly slower but on a track day with used tires, I wasn't worried about another second and a half in lap time.
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Old 11-14-2010, 05:57 PM   #44
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Quote:
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So, i got into a heated debate with a friend the other night over the topic of race gas usage.

I argue that a lot of people run race gas merely to say "i run race gas". Most people that are running race gas DO NOT have any reason for running it.

They like the smell, or the look of the exhaust, or being able to say that yeah, i run race gas.

I'm NOT talking about mrx09/gain a few hp gas, im talking about leaded race fuels (ie. c12/c16) in a BONE stock bike with no tune.


He argues that no one runs race gas without actually needing it.

I laughed my off, as i have seen many people with BONE stock motors at the track AND on the street, running c12/c16/q16 for NO REASON except to waste money.

Most people think that if they throw 100+ octane leaded fuel "race gas" in a stock bike, it will go faster, make more hp, etc YOU ARE SLOWING THE BURN FOR NO REASON!

Obviously no one is going to say that they run race gas in a stock bike for no reason, but i want to know what yall think.

Who runs what gas, in what kind of bike?

For instance, I HAVE to run higher octane fuel in my bike. It will knock and ping like a without it. BUT i have higher static compression ratio/and more cylinder pressure than what came from the factory.
Quote:
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When I ran U4 in my 1988 carbed gsxr 750, it was night and day, also dynoed it with and without, +10hp, but I didnt need the dyno to tell me that, it was WAY harder to keep the front end down at the track when drag racing it...


In my 03 600rr, no need to run it with that I had(mostly stock)

U4 is oxygenated. The power does not come from the additonal octane but from the release of oxygen molecules when it burns increasing cylinder pressure. It's an artificial way to increase compression.

It's also some VERY nasty stuff and attacks fuel pumps, injectors etc. if left in the system.

Simply putting 108 octane in your bike is not going to give you any measurable gain over say 93 if that's what your bike calls for.
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Old 11-14-2010, 07:58 PM   #45
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I posted nothing about Octane... U4 is only 92.
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Old 11-14-2010, 08:11 PM   #46
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I put nothing but Shell 93 in mine. In a number of states in the US, 91 is the highest octane you can buy at the station. Most other countries sell 95 as the minimum, with Germany offering 100.

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Old 11-14-2010, 08:15 PM   #47
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Quote:
Originally Posted by R1Rider2009 View Post
I put nothing but Shell 93 in mine. In a number of states in the US, 91 is the highest octane you can buy at the station. Most other countries offer 95 as standard.
but all you need is 87.
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Old 11-14-2010, 08:15 PM   #48
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93 doesnt help power or do any better for your engine.
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Old 11-14-2010, 08:53 PM   #49
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Quote:
Originally Posted by R1Rider2009 View Post
I put nothing but Shell 93 in mine. In a number of states in the US, 91 is the highest octane you can buy at the station. Most other countries sell 95 as the minimum, with Germany offering 100.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Solracer View Post
but all you need is 87.
I believe the 2009 R1 requires 91 octane minimum due to it's compression ratio / timing map.

At the end of the day that's really the point. You need to run the minimum amount of octane to prevent the engine from having detonation issues, any higher though will not give you more power. If in doubt consult your owners manual or if your motors built ask the builder.
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Old 11-14-2010, 08:55 PM   #50
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Patrick View Post
I believe the 2009 R1 requires 91 octane minimum due to it's compression ratio / timing map.

At the end of the day that's really the point. You need to run the minimum amount of octane to prevent the engine from having detonation issues, any higher though will not give you more power. If in doubt consult your owners manual or if your motors built ask the builder.
Was going by this as well..

Quote:
Originally Posted by kawasakijockey View Post
If you happen to look closely at the octane number on your tank sticker, you will see that is the RON octane number. RON is +10 of MON. RON (research octane number) is 5 octane points different than US gasoline octane numbers(DON number). Most countries other than the US rate gasoline octane by RON. Basically, 92 RON is 87 at the US gas pump.
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Old 11-14-2010, 09:04 PM   #51
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I'm not familiar with the conversion, however not all manuals in the U.S. market specify RON or otherwise, I'm looking at 2 of mine right now. One says 86 minimum, the other 91 minimum.
What I do know that if your bike calls for 91 minimum, it will probably detonate/ping on 87, Ron, Mon, Don or jimmyjoebob,
Detonation = bad.
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Old 11-14-2010, 09:10 PM   #52
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I use 103 or C16 when I spray mine. The is how the bike runs on a motor only pass with the high octane in it. That stuff kills power. I can see it the time slips and feel it off the line.
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Old 11-14-2010, 10:08 PM   #53
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Quote:
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I use 103 or C16 when I spray mine. The is how the bike runs on a motor only pass with the high octane in it. That stuff kills power. I can see it the time slips and feel it off the line.
dont blame your lack of riding skills on the octane
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Old 11-15-2010, 03:01 AM   #54
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Often people refer to high octane gas as though it has some properties that it, in truth, does not. I thought it might be educational to make a thread about this and see where it leads.

Myth 1) High octane gas will make more power.

Octane rating is a measure of a fuels resistance to detonation. Nothing more.
This myth stems from the fact that a higher octane rated fuel, when used in a high performance engine, will allow higher compression ratios to be used without detonantion. High octane SLOWS gasolines rate of combustion.
That means it produces less power than lower octane fuels, when used in engines not requiring it's use.

Myth 2) High Octane gas is better quality than regular gas.

The octane rating of gasoline is modified by the addition of different chemicals with long fancy names. These chemicals help combustion but do not enhance the base gasolines quality otherwise.

Myth 3) High octane gas will clean your engine.

There may be additives in high octane gas that help clean deposits like minor carbon buildup and there may not. These additives are not a function of octane rating.
Of course, some motorcycle engines are fairly high compression and require the use of increased octane rated fuel but, if your carbs are dirty it will take more than spending extra money at the pump to fix them.


Much of the confusion surrounding high octane gasoline comes from the late 1960's when high performance cars became popular. The muscle car era brought large displacement, high compression engines that needed higher octane rated fuel than cars from previous years.
The oil companies capitalized on the new popularity of performance cars by advertising "Premium" and "Super Premium" gas. Just like hair care products are attributed with elusive properties like brilliance clarifiers and luxurient moisturizing, the oil companies gave high octane gas special properties too.
It was advertising hype that eventually moved into common speech. It is now used as a way of intensifying descriptions. For example movie reviews talk about "high octane excitement".
So here we are 40 years later and all these myths still swirl around the term and people keep repeating them like viral videos get passed around the internet.



From Wikipedia:

The octane rating is a measure of the resistance of gasoline and other fuels to detonation (engine knocking) in spark-ignition internal combustion engines. High-performance engines typically have higher compression ratios and are therefore more prone to detonation, so they require higher octane fuel. A lower-performance engine will not generally perform better with high-octane fuel, since the compression ratio is fixed by the engine design.

from a member on the forum dont remember the SN
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Old 11-15-2010, 07:21 AM   #55
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Quote:
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dont blame your lack of riding skills on the octane
You got me. The high octane may me noticeably slower than usual.
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Old 11-15-2010, 07:48 AM   #56
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You got me. The high octane may me noticeably slower than usual.
sure it wasn't the high calorie meal you had from the fast food place?
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Old 11-15-2010, 08:40 AM   #57
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Old 11-15-2010, 08:45 AM   #58
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hi-Side View Post
In my racebike, I ran race gas, on race day. The bike was tuned for it. On track days, I used prem pump gas. It ran rich on pump gas and was slightly slower but on a track day with used tires, I wasn't worried about another second and a half in lap time.

If it ran rich on pump gas, I'd have to imagine that your bike was tuned for an oxygenated fuel, not avgas.
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Old 11-15-2010, 08:47 AM   #59
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Quote:
Originally Posted by R1Rider2009 View Post
I put nothing but Shell 93 in mine. In a number of states in the US, 91 is the highest octane you can buy at the station. Most other countries sell 95 as the minimum, with Germany offering 100.
The Octane rating is also calculated differently in different countries. The knock-avoidance properties of a US 93 octane don't match those of a UK 93 octane.
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Old 11-15-2010, 12:41 PM   #60
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Quote:
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REALLY seen any airplanes falling out of the sky . try leaving pump gas in a plane for a year and go for a ride . if i leave pump gas in a lawn mower over the winter it the carb .. pump gas is trash ..
I'd agree with you there!

The difference however is less the octane and more the properties of the fuel itself; the ethanol, the additives to stabilize it and the additives to make up for the lack of lubricity. We won't go into the other nastiness like ethanols penchant to leech moisture out of the air or it's fast evaporative rate.


Avgas is still leaded, and that lead helps with the lubrication much better than the additives we have now.

The only upside to having fuels without good lubrication as we made the switch over to unleaded is it has pushed the development and wide spread use of nikasil cylinders and hard chrome rings.

What kind of plane do you fly?
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