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Old 11-13-2010, 10:25 PM   #21
Grimace
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cedestech View Post
Any fuel with more octane than the motor is designed to be used with is a complete and udder waste...

YMMV but that is the fact.

Oxygenators, cleaners and other additives are subject to debate.
udder??
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Old 11-13-2010, 10:26 PM   #22
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compression and timing. If you have too much of either, you have to use a higher octane to avoid detonation. Run the lowest octane possible to make the most power.
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Old 11-13-2010, 10:27 PM   #23
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grimace,

your bike was designed to be operated on premuim grade 90+ octane pump gas.

you have a compression ratio that needs a little wiggle room in the very hot months, so they recommend 90+ octane all the time.

pre-detonation aka "spark knock", is NEVER EVER a good thing.
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Old 11-13-2010, 10:29 PM   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gtdrivr View Post
compression and timing. If you have too much of either, you have to use a higher octane to avoid detonation. Run the lowest octane possible to make the most power.
I do have a +4 ignition advancer on it. Could that be it (I don't show about mechanics).
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Old 11-13-2010, 10:32 PM   #25
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Quote:
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grimace,

your bike was designed to be operated on premuim grade 90+ octane pump gas.

you have a compression ratio that needs a little wiggle room in the very hot months, so they recommend 90+ octane all the time.

pre-detonation aka "spark knock", is NEVER EVER a good thing.
Thanks, not knowing why was really starting to bug me.
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Old 11-13-2010, 10:43 PM   #26
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its not by any means, the full explanation. but it gives you an idea as to why.
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Old 11-13-2010, 10:49 PM   #27
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its not by any means, the full explanation. but it gives you an idea as to why.
I'll go for the full explanation if you don't mind. I'm a quick study.
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Old 11-13-2010, 11:04 PM   #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Patrick View Post
Higher octane allows higher compression which is what gives you more power.
A higher octane alone will NOT give you more power, period.
is it just me or is there a gong that sounds and a deep ominous voice that says "Patrick has spoken, NOW SILENCE" every time there's a post like this?

oh and if anyone cares, my bike's manual says 90+octane required

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Old 11-13-2010, 11:06 PM   #29
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When I ran U4 in my 1988 carbed gsxr 750, it was night and day, also dynoed it with and without, +10hp, but I didnt need the dyno to tell me that, it was WAY harder to keep the front end down at the track when drag racing it...


In my 03 600rr, no need to run it with that I had(mostly stock)
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Old 11-13-2010, 11:11 PM   #30
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Quote:
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is it just me or is there a gong that sounds and a deep ominous voice that says "Patrick has spoken, NOW SILENCE" every time there's a post like this?

oh and if anyone cares, my bike's manual says 90+octane required
There have been 15 posts after he posted. It's just you.
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Old 11-13-2010, 11:32 PM   #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Trav View Post
grimace,

your bike was designed to be operated on premuim grade 90+ octane pump gas.

you have a compression ratio that needs a little wiggle room in the very hot months, so they recommend 90+ octane all the time.

pre-detonation aka "spark knock", is NEVER EVER a good thing.
If you happen to look closely at the octane number on your tank sticker, you will see that is the RON octane number. RON is +10 of MON. RON (research octane number) is 5 octane points different than US gasoline octane numbers(DON number). Most countries other than the US rate gasoline octane by RON. Basically, 92 RON is 87 at the US gas pump.
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Old 11-13-2010, 11:38 PM   #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kawasakijockey View Post
If you happen to look closely at the octane number on your tank sticker, you will see that is the RON octane number. RON is +10 of MON. RON (research octane number) is 5 octane points different than US gasoline octane numbers(DON number). Most countries other than the US rate gasoline octane by RON. Basically, 92 RON is 87 at the US gas pump.
I took that sticker of first day I bought the bike becuse I thought it looked on the bike, lol. Oh well...
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Old 11-14-2010, 12:22 AM   #33
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Quote:
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I'll go for the full explanation if you don't mind. I'm a quick study.
From a thread I wrote about a year ago...


Quote:
A little talk about OCTANE

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Often people refer to high octane gas as though it has some properties that it, in truth, does not. I thought it might be educational to make a thread about this and see where it leads.

Myth 1) High octane gas will make more power.

Octane rating is a measure of a fuels resistance to detonation. Nothing more.
This myth stems from the fact that a higher octane rated fuel, when used in a high performance engine, will allow higher compression ratios to be used without detonantion. High octane SLOWS gasolines rate of combustion.
That means it produces less power than lower octane fuels, when used in engines not requiring it's use.

Myth 2) High Octane gas is better quality than regular gas.

The octane rating of gasoline is modified by the addition of different chemicals with long fancy names. These chemicals help combustion but do not enhance the base gasolines quality otherwise.

Myth 3) High octane gas will clean your engine.

There may be additives in high octane gas that help clean deposits like minor carbon buildup and there may not. These additives are not a function of octane rating.
Of course, some motorcycle engines are fairly high compression and require the use of increased octane rated fuel but, if your carbs are dirty it will take more than spending extra money at the pump to fix them.


Much of the confusion surrounding high octane gasoline comes from the late 1960's when high performance cars became popular. The muscle car era brought large displacement, high compression engines that needed higher octane rated fuel than cars from previous years.
The oil companies capitalized on the new popularity of performance cars by advertising "Premium" and "Super Premium" gas. Just like hair care products are attributed with elusive properties like brilliance clarifiers and luxurient moisturizing, the oil companies gave high octane gas special properties too.
It was advertising hype that eventually moved into common speech. It is now used as a way of intensifying descriptions. For example movie reviews talk about "high octane excitement".
So here we are 40 years later and all these myths still swirl around the term and people keep repeating them like viral videos get passed around the internet.



From Wikipedia:

The octane rating is a measure of the resistance of gasoline and other fuels to detonation (engine knocking) in spark-ignition internal combustion engines. High-performance engines typically have higher compression ratios and are therefore more prone to detonation, so they require higher octane fuel. A lower-performance engine will not generally perform better with high-octane fuel, since the compression ratio is fixed by the engine design.
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Old 11-14-2010, 12:34 AM   #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Grimace View Post
udder??
I'm buzzed typing so leave me be...

The reason a bike feels "different" from one brand to the next or grade with in a brand is the additives or lack there of and the specific gravity of the fuel. On a carbed or FI bike, all else staying the same, changing nothing
but fuels with different specific gravities will cause the base mixtures to be different. That is why, with FI bikes, you have to change the ECM to a programable one when you start tuning and you have to change the
map when you change fuels.

Plus, sadly, I bet some fuels have a bit more then 10% ethenol in them and I bet
that number changes from batch to batch at times.

Remember though, none of this has to do with "octane".

Google a VERY good article written by Dr. Tullulie on the subject.

Last edited by cedestech; 11-14-2010 at 12:36 AM.
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Old 11-14-2010, 12:41 AM   #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cedestech View Post
I'm buzzed typing so leave me be...

The reason a bike feels "different" from one brand to the next or grade with in a brand is the additives or lack there of and the specific gravity of the fuel. On a carbed or FI bike, all else staying the same, changing nothing
but fuels with different specific gravities will cause the base mixtures to be different. That is why, with FI bikes, you have to change the ECM to a programable one when you start tuning and you have to change the
map when you change fuels.

Plus, sadly, I bet some fuels have a bit more then 10% ethenol in them and I bet
that number changes from batch to batch at times.

Remember though, none of this has to do with "octane".

Google a VERY good article written by Dr. Tullulie on the subject.
thanks for the info, and I was only teezing about the spelling. I also know all about being "buzzed"
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Old 11-14-2010, 12:49 AM   #36
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Quote:
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From a thread I wrote about a year ago...
Good read. What is weird to me is that more recently designed bikes with a higher level of performance run on 87 just fine. Like Bluewave's 08 Busa, and others who have posted on this thread.
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Old 11-14-2010, 12:55 AM   #37
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more recently designed bikes than mine
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Old 11-14-2010, 01:10 AM   #38
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Higher octane causes the fuel to burn slower, i.e. a more controled burn and helps prevent detonation and it's engine damage. IF your compression ratio is low enough that detonation isn't an issue, the lower octane will burn faster and produce slightly more HP.

Fil's mom was right for the average stock bike.
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Old 11-14-2010, 01:52 AM   #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kawasakijockey View Post
If you happen to look closely at the octane number on your tank sticker, you will see that is the RON octane number. RON is +10 of MON. RON (research octane number) is 5 octane points different than US gasoline octane numbers(DON number). Most countries other than the US rate gasoline octane by RON. Basically, 92 RON is 87 at the US gas pump.
agreed.
however, our fuels (here in the us) SUCK.

BONE STOCK 07-08 gsxr 1000, i can get it to knock on 87 (min octane) pump gas.

That being said, don, ron, whatever. most of the newer high-comp motors need to run premium grade fuels (90+octane).
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Old 11-14-2010, 01:57 AM   #40
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Quote:
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Good read. What is weird to me is that more recently designed bikes with a higher level of performance run on 87 just fine. Like Bluewave's 08 Busa, and others who have posted on this thread.
there is a fine line on what will make an engine knock.

stock 1st gen busa's (11:1 c/r), will run ALL DAY LONG on min grade pump gas
stock 2nd gen (12.5:1 c/r), will run on min grade if the conditions are right, and the tune is doing well.

stock 4th gen gsxr 1000 (12.8:1 c/r), will NOT survive on min grade pump gas. (yeah sure you got another 1-2hp out of it on the dyno, go get stuck in south texas traffic and see if she starts to ping)
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