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Old 11-10-2010, 11:32 PM   #61
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Old 11-10-2010, 11:35 PM   #62
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Quote:
Originally Posted by speedjunkie View Post
I get that. 100 percent understood. texas has laws ,city has ordinances,

neither has a db ceiling or floor. but if a jury is in the box, they make that dicision whether it was loud or not, and can agree with me or the cop.
Here's the problem:

**Sample testimony**

I am Officer Smith. I've been a sworn police officer for 20 years. I am trained in traffic enforcement and am familiar with all safety and equipment requirements of motor vehicles.

On this day at this location, I saw a vehicle emitting a loud, unreasonable noise.

Q: How many cars do you see at that intersection you are at?

Hundreds. Thousands.

Q: How many tickets do you write for excessive noise?

One or two a day.

Q: Why don't you ticket the other cars?

They're not making excessive noise.



I mean that's not solid. But as a juror, who is to say what the officer heard wasn't excessive? Even I as a juror with no further context might be swayed by that.
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Old 11-10-2010, 11:37 PM   #63
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Originally Posted by houstonch73 View Post
so what I said in post 45 was accurate? Basically its an easy money racket with the winners being everyone but the poor sap who got the ticket?
It's an over-broadly written law. Courts ultimately enforce law handed down by legislators.
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Old 11-10-2010, 11:41 PM   #64
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a subway train at 200' makes 95db of noise.




OSHA Daily Permissible Noise Level Exposure for workers(most jury works)
Hours per day Sound level
8 90dB --------------- most cars are below this
6 92dB
4 95dB ---------------- this is loud by the way
3 97dB
2 100dB
1.5 102dB
1 105dB
.5 110dB
.25 or less 115dB ---------------- dangerouly loud(excessive)

I would show the jury this and make 1 statement.. How long was the Motorcycle next to you to determine it was excessive. I doubt the cop would say 15 minutes.. So It could not have been excessively loud.
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Old 11-10-2010, 11:42 PM   #65
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Quote:
Originally Posted by speedjunkie View Post
a subway train at 200' makes 95db of noise.

OSHA Daily Permissible Noise Level Exposure for workers(most jury works)
Hours per day Sound level
8 90dB --------------- most cars are below this
6 92dB
4 95dB ---------------- this is loud by the way
3 97dB
2 100dB
1.5 102dB
1 105dB
.5 110dB
.25 or less 115dB ---------------- dangerouly loud(excessive)

I would show the jury this and make 1 statement.. How long was the Motorcycle next to you to determine it was excessive. I doubt the cop would say 15 minutes.. So It could not have been excessively loud.
Have you ever actually tried this?
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Old 11-10-2010, 11:45 PM   #66
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Have you ever actually tried this?


No man.. Im just BSn on here but i think someone should...any angle against the System with a LAW like that is worth the shot.

plus just FYi to all motohoustonians. Yoshi pipes are 102 db loud so they under the sema rules would not be so loud.. In the End Its performance that we seek not loudness.

unless you have a cruiser...... Loudness is what we want!!!
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Old 11-10-2010, 11:47 PM   #67
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Old 11-10-2010, 11:48 PM   #68
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Well first of all, OSHA regulations on "excessive" noise aren't controlling or referenced in the city ordinance.

Secondly, what exception to the hearsay rule would you use to get it into evidence?

See in bench trials, judges relax the rules of evidence to accommodate lay defendants. But in a jury trial, if the prosecutor objects, the judge must uphold it if proper. I don't see any way to get that OSHA info in over an objection to hearsay.
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Old 11-10-2010, 11:49 PM   #69
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Quote:
Originally Posted by houstonch73 View Post
Answered like a true lawyer. You ducked the question and instead made a statement and passed the blame.

So the court has no choice in how they rule? Seems to me its up to the judge to dismiss those tickets or choose to side with the state. If the judge dismisses the ticket, what's the state going to do? Lose money. If the judge lets the ticket stick, what does the citizen do? Dump more money than the fine into the system in the "hope" that the citizen will "win" which is ultimately still a net loss in the end for him.

I don't expect you to agree with me or make any statements in public (writing). But its a fact of the system. The citizen might win the case but it will cost more to "win" it than it would be to just bend over and take it.
poor attitute.. LOL.. FIGHT FIGHT FIGHT>.
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Old 11-10-2010, 11:51 PM   #70
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Originally Posted by houstonch73 View Post
Answered like a true lawyer. You ducked the question and instead made a statement and passed the blame.

So the court has no choice in how they rule? Seems to me its up to the judge to dismiss those tickets or choose to side with the state. If the judge dismisses the ticket, what's the state going to do? Lose money. If the judge lets the ticket stick, what does the citizen do? Dump more money than the fine into the system in the "hope" that the citizen will "win" which is ultimately still a net loss in the end for him.
A court/judge/jury is sworn to uphold the law. If jurors think the law is bad and decide to nullify, then they better nullify every single case. Because unequal application of the law is the first step towards a corrupt system.

I would rather have juries and judges apply the law equally to everybody than to have judges and juries picking what laws they want to enforce at what time.
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Old 11-10-2010, 11:53 PM   #71
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wackjum View Post
Well first of all, OSHA regulations on "excessive" noise aren't controlling or referenced in the city ordinance.

Secondly, what exception to the hearsay rule would you use to get it into evidence?

See in bench trials, judges relax the rules of evidence to accommodate lay defendants. But in a jury trial, if the prosecutor objects, the judge must uphold it if proper. I don't see any way to get that OSHA info in over an objection to hearsay.
good call ... Unless you get an expert testimony with tried and tested fact. still its a waste of Money at this point. The state does not train their police officers to determine what is loud or not, but a sound technician is. I could discredit the police officers a Hearsay as well.
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Old 11-10-2010, 11:53 PM   #72
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Old 11-10-2010, 11:54 PM   #73
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Old 11-10-2010, 11:56 PM   #74
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haha....sorry. didn't mean for it to come across that way. I'm just pointing out that the citizen can't win it. He can't go on the record and agree in a public forum and I understand. Just don't try to duck the question. Its much better to simply decline to comment or say nothing.
I'm not ducking the question. You just don't like/accept my answer.
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Old 11-10-2010, 11:57 PM   #75
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Quote:
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There is currently a movement for Houston to go to the SAE J2825 test. V-twins and sporty's are tested with a sound meter 20" off the exhaust at a 45 degree angle. Idle for both models, 92db(A) max. V-twins are then revved to 2k and cannot exceed 96db(A) while sporty's are revved to 5k and cannot exceed 100db(a)...there is your "objective" standard to stop the whining about subjectivity. This is SAE and AMA sanctioned...so go argue with that!
this sounds better.. no pun intended
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Old 11-11-2010, 12:01 AM   #76
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in the end.. This Officer, is well within his means to do what he is doing, because the LAW is VAGUE.. but 200 plus citations in 9 months.. thats not OCD or what.. does he not have a LIFE other than work.. Geez..

also this guy is Superman, batman, and Sarah palin.. watch out..

I say People just Turn your Bike off near this guy and make a gesture your revving the Bike.. make him think his Deaf
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Old 11-11-2010, 12:02 AM   #77
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Quote:
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ALL THIS CRYING . man -up and pay the fine .isn't that what i hear here all the time when speeding.. you got load pipes so pay to have them .
Dude. For gods sake. It's spelled LOUD not LOAD. You misspell it every time. You're killing me, Smalls! Lol
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Old 11-11-2010, 12:04 AM   #78
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Old 11-11-2010, 12:15 AM   #79
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There are two "right/wrong" at play in the justice system.

The first is the traditional sense. Does the law apply to the facts of the case (in other words, did you break the law or not). For example, if the law forbids loud noisy cars, then do the facts show that the law should apply to this car? This determination can be done by the judge if it is a bench trial, or a jury of it is a jury trial.

The second "right/wrong" scenario is seeing if each side, the prosecution and the defense, is following the rules in presenting their case. The rules are laid out in the Code of Criminal Procedure and the Texas Rules of Evidence. Only a judge does this, and this is the referee job of the judge being the middle neutral party.


I think your post implies that judges do some kind of vetting process to determine if each case is valid or not. This is not so. An officer will swear that a law has been violated and then a prosecutor accepts the charges. So actually the vetting process is up to the prosecutor. But a prosecutor will typically have no reason to decline charges.
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Old 11-11-2010, 12:32 AM   #80
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