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Old 11-10-2010, 10:40 PM   #41
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Old 11-10-2010, 10:42 PM   #42
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Considering that most car drivers hate motorcycles and definitely HATE loud pipes..............I'll take that bet.

I say just win. 1 the rest fall on Credibility. The Trial will force the System to have to Prove beyond a Reasonable doubt that the Pipe is louder than allowed. this way a DB meter will be used. just because people hate something does not mean they will convict, if Evidence is Provided.

I doubt that cop had a db meter. plus the law is arbitrary.
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Old 11-10-2010, 10:45 PM   #43
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Old 11-10-2010, 10:46 PM   #44
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I say just win. 1 the rest fall on Credibility. The Trial will force the System to have to Prove beyond a Reasonable doubt that the Pipe is louder than allowed. this way a DB meter will be used. just because people hate something does not mean they will convict, if Evidence is Provided.

I doubt that cop had a db meter. plus the law is arbitrary.
True, but the law doesn't require a decibel reading. It's up to the officer's discretion.

Therefore, I still think people will take the word of an officer sworn to uphold the law over that loud, speeding, pulling in between traffic, riding wheelies nasty biker that did one of these things to them yesterday on their way to work.

But, it's just my opinion based on cagers reactions when I tell them what I do for a living.
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Old 11-10-2010, 10:48 PM   #45
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It kinda looks like they got a clip of nightster rider getting arrested. Anyone else catch that?
Wow sorry I meant honorsdaddy... my mistake
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Old 11-10-2010, 10:54 PM   #46
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Old 11-10-2010, 10:57 PM   #47
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Old 11-10-2010, 10:58 PM   #48
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True, but the law doesn't require a decibel reading. It's up to the officer's discretion.

:
Thats what I meant by Arbitrary, the COP does not have to meter you, but the Court does. They have to prove the pipe is not in compliance with the law . This is Why a Good Lawyer will get it thrown out, I could.
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Old 11-10-2010, 11:00 PM   #49
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Old 11-10-2010, 11:05 PM   #50
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Thats what I meant by Arbitrary, the COP does not have to meter you, but the Court does. They have to prove the pipe is not in compliance with the law . This is Why a Good Lawyer will get it thrown out, I could.
Don't quit your day job. Your explanation of the law is completely wrong.
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Old 11-10-2010, 11:08 PM   #51
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Old 11-10-2010, 11:14 PM   #52
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Don't quit your day job. Your explanation of the law is completely wrong.
Exhaust System Inspection
Under the Texas Transportation Code, Section 20.15, Texas requires that every motor vehicle be equipped with a muffler, in constant operation, at all times. The muffler must be for the reduction of noise. The muffler must be intact, in condition similar to when new; it cannot have been patched or repaired. Note that exhaust sound decibels are not checked during exhaust inspections so long as the exhaust is not leaking or incomplete.
Texas Code Requirements
Under Section 547.604 of the Texas Transportation Code, all motor vehicles must be equipped with a muffler, in good working order that prevents excessive or unusual noise. Further, the exhaust mufflers may not be bypassed.
Excessive and Unusual
Since Texas lacks specific decibel guidance, "excessive and unusual" is the applicable standard. In Aguilar v. State of Texas, a Texas appellate court reviewed a constitutional challenge claiming that the language was vague, and thus unenforceable since Section 547.604 does not specify a decibel level. The court rejected this challenge, noting that the terms "imply that noise must be outside normal standards for motor vehicles, which ordinary persons can objectively determine."

ARBITRARY

Not Wrong At all what so ever. In Texas, like some states you can have a jury trial for a trafic Violation. Then its not up to the Judge or the Police officer to Prove your Exhaust which meets EPA standards , is in good working order is not Excessively loud, Its up to the DA and your Lawyer. The judge is 100 percent impartial. Unless you say the US justice system is WRONG.

I dont know
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Old 11-10-2010, 11:18 PM   #53
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Don't quit your day job. Your explanation of the law is completely wrong.

I not a lawyer, but I would make a Great one. I have Never been Convicted of a Single Ticket,, Clean record. WHY

JURY TRIAL..Citizens best friend
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Old 11-10-2010, 11:18 PM   #54
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Originally Posted by speedjunkie View Post
Exhaust System Inspection
Under the Texas Transportation Code, Section 20.15, Texas requires that every motor vehicle be equipped with a muffler, in constant operation, at all times. The muffler must be for the reduction of noise. The muffler must be intact, in condition similar to when new; it cannot have been patched or repaired. Note that exhaust sound decibels are not checked during exhaust inspections so long as the exhaust is not leaking or incomplete.
Texas Code Requirements
Under Section 547.604 of the Texas Transportation Code, all motor vehicles must be equipped with a muffler, in good working order that prevents excessive or unusual noise. Further, the exhaust mufflers may not be bypassed.
Excessive and Unusual
Since Texas lacks specific decibel guidance, "excessive and unusual" is the applicable standard. In Aguilar v. State of Texas, a Texas appellate court reviewed a constitutional challenge claiming that the language was vague, and thus unenforceable since Section 547.604 does not specify a decibel level. The court rejected this challenge, noting that the terms "imply that noise must be outside normal standards for motor vehicles, which ordinary persons can objectively determine."

ARBITRARY

Not Wrong At all what so ever. In Texas, like some states you can have a jury trial for a trafic Violation. Then its not up to the Judge or the Police officer to Prove your Exhaust which meets EPA standards , is in good working order is not Excessively loud, Its up to the DA and your Lawyer. The judge is 100 percent impartial. Unless you say the US justice system is WRONG.

I dont know
You're referring to a state law, ignoring the city ordinance... an ordinance which does not require a decible reading and which I think only requires a preponderance of evidence, to whit the officer's word/statements vs yours.
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Old 11-10-2010, 11:19 PM   #55
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Quote:
Originally Posted by speedjunkie View Post
Exhaust System Inspection
Under the Texas Transportation Code, Section 20.15, Texas requires that every motor vehicle be equipped with a muffler, in constant operation, at all times. The muffler must be for the reduction of noise. The muffler must be intact, in condition similar to when new; it cannot have been patched or repaired. Note that exhaust sound decibels are not checked during exhaust inspections so long as the exhaust is not leaking or incomplete.
Texas Code Requirements
Under Section 547.604 of the Texas Transportation Code, all motor vehicles must be equipped with a muffler, in good working order that prevents excessive or unusual noise. Further, the exhaust mufflers may not be bypassed.
Excessive and Unusual
Since Texas lacks specific decibel guidance, "excessive and unusual" is the applicable standard. In Aguilar v. State of Texas, a Texas appellate court reviewed a constitutional challenge claiming that the language was vague, and thus unenforceable since Section 547.604 does not specify a decibel level. The court rejected this challenge, noting that the terms "imply that noise must be outside normal standards for motor vehicles, which ordinary persons can objectively determine."

ARBITRARY

Not Wrong At all what so ever. In Texas, like some states you can have a jury trial for a trafic Violation. Then its not up to the Judge or the Police officer to Prove your Exhaust which meets EPA standards , is in good working order is not Excessively loud, Its up to the DA and your Lawyer. The judge is 100 percent impartial. Unless you say the US justice system is WRONG.

I dont know


I don't understand what you are trying to say.
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Old 11-10-2010, 11:21 PM   #56
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I don't understand what you are trying to say.
ok..


Sorry.

the LAW is Arbitrary, meaning I get its up to the Officers Discrestion , No db law in texas,,

But in a courtroom, Its not arbitrary anymore. there has to be Facts not opinions.

thats all
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Old 11-10-2010, 11:24 PM   #57
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You're referring to a state law, ignoring the city ordinance... an ordinance which does not require a decible reading and which I think only requires a preponderance of evidence, to whit the officer's word/statements vs yours.
I get that. 100 percent understood. texas has laws ,city has ordinances,

neither has a db ceiling or floor. but if a jury is in the box, they make that dicision whether it was loud or not, and can agree with me or the cop.
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Old 11-10-2010, 11:27 PM   #58
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Old 11-10-2010, 11:28 PM   #59
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You're referring to a state law, ignoring the city ordinance... an ordinance which does not require a decible reading and which I think only requires a preponderance of evidence, to whit the officer's word/statements vs yours.
The burden is still beyond a reasonable doubt, which is applicable for all criminal cases.

However the problem here is that the ordinance is subjective, entirely dependent on the officer.

Like Speedfreak, I have tried at least 50-60 excessive noise cases (some as a prosecutor, some as defense). Noise cases really are one of the few times it is more advisable to go to the bench. That is because a judge will have a better of idea of what excessive noise is in comparison to all tickets being written.

However, a bench trial in Houston Municipal is almost a foregone conclusion. The judges there bat 98% conviction rates, if not higher. Jury trial is the only option in Houston Muni. So its going to come down to hoping the officer doesn't show (and I think Holstclaw seems like the kind that will show), or taking it to the jury.

That means a tight voir dire to weed out anti-motorcyclist jurors and doing other things I'm not going to post on a public forum.
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Old 11-10-2010, 11:31 PM   #60
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The burden is still beyond a reasonable doubt, which is applicable for all criminal cases.

However the problem here is that the ordinance is subjective, entirely dependent on the officer.

Like Speedfreak, I have tried at least 50-60 excessive noise cases (some as a prosecutor, some as defense). Noise cases really are one of the few times it is more advisable to go to the bench. That is because a judge will have a better of idea of what excessive noise is in comparison to all tickets being written.

However, a bench trial in Houston Municipal is almost a foregone conclusion. The judges there bat 98% conviction rates, if not higher. Jury trial is the only option in Houston Muni. So its going to come down to hoping the officer doesn't show (and I think Holstclaw seems like the kind that will show), or taking it to the jury.

That means a tight voir dire to weed out anti-motorcyclist jurors and doing other things I'm not going to post on a public forum.


100 percent with you on that one. This is why I think we should Pull together and File a lawsuit against the state to create a standard db ordinace like the one sema is pushing.. 95db and muffled at 150 feet from the device.
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