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Old 10-31-2010, 08:31 PM   #1
albertinhouston
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Is it really the cagers fault?

I'll put my flame suit on for this but I thought I would just throw it out there. I read all of the posts that it was the cages fault because they did what ever. My thoughts lean more to the rider not being aware of his/her surroundings. I've need riding on the streets since 89. been riding since 3rd or 4th grade. I have 1 street accident (chain came off- less that 20mph) and one wreck on the track. I've done my share of stupid stuff, don't get me wrong.
There are FEW riders that actually keep it under the speed limit all the time. I have yet to roll up on some bike, in my car, that is creeping at 35, 45 or what ever the limit is. I think they THINK they are, but they are actually riding at their COMFORT level speed. If you really think about it 35mph is REALLY slow! I personally can't do it. And at 35MPH you should be able to stop fairly quickly without getting out of control. My thoughts are that most of the time they are driving over the speed limit not paying attenting to what is around them.
I think it was MADBUG that said "maybe he was driving 100mph"(other post) and he gets bashed. But really think about it, who really drives 45 in a 45. Same thing with that truck that turned from the center lane. In order for that truck to make a turn he had to be going pretty slow. If I see a big a$$ truck in a center lane doing grandma speed i'm going to realize something's up. I'm going to slow waaay down.
You guys/gals need to realize when you are comming up on people, and you're speeding, it's not easy to judge how fast you are going. Most of the time they look at you and think that guy is way down there I can make it. But no, the rider closes that distance way to fast. Then we read about yet ANOTHER wreck where the cager pulled out in front of someone.
I'm not saying we all need to drive the speed limit all the time. Just be more aware where you are on the road and what is around you. It's up to us to keep us safe(alive). Not the cagers.
ok, flame away if needed

Last edited by albertinhouston; 10-31-2010 at 08:34 PM.
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Old 10-31-2010, 08:35 PM   #2
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no flame here, I fully agree.
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Old 10-31-2010, 08:39 PM   #3
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+1. I think about that all the time. Of course we all speed, ss bikes are made it. I'm sure that alot of it also comes rider error. Poor judgement.
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Old 10-31-2010, 08:42 PM   #4
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no flame here

its the same argument that people have presented since the dawn of motorcycles

bottom line is, if you have a driver's license you've already agreed to the laws of the road, and it is not my responsibility to watch out for your caging doing cager that could run me off the road or kill me.

that being said, yes we could all drive 10 mph under the speed limit and use mirrors with convex inserts watching everything around us 24/7 and making sure to keep a 12 second rule from every vehicle in the road.

that wouldn't be any fun though, would it?

99% of the time it is the CAGERS FAULT

yes we could do more to prevent it, but what your saying is it was the innocent couples fault for getting gunned down by a mugger because they wanted to go see a late night showing of "[insert theatre production here]"
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Old 10-31-2010, 08:43 PM   #5
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We were on the fundraiser ride for the Troops, I was two cars ahead of the group. It wasnt a large turn out, only 18 bikes in all. At Honey Egypt I was going to block traffic so I came to a stop, put on my left blinker and as I began to turn the mercedes behind me attempted to pass me on the left over a double yellow. I was at fault since I honestly told the cop I was braking, had my turn signal on AND DID BRIEFLY GO RIGHT BEFORE LEFT. The Mercedes faulted for attempting to pass in a no pass zone.

I was wearing gear thankfully, but it was a blessing considering the low speed, no injury on their part and minimal to both our vehicles. No damage to my bike on the left, my leg took the impact on the calve muscle and upper leg(no knee directly) while I was leaned. Right side of the bike has a broken peg, stratching on the rear and front fairing and mainly the exhaust and turn signal. Pazzo has minor scratches. I pretty much fell to the right w the impact and rolled.

Blessed w the situation considering the mistakes I made as well as the other driver. They were very nice and understanding especially after realizing the driver was a retired vet. The officer rides track and declared the accident "no fault." Im going to take a few days off from work since I cant put any pressure on my leg as of yet, and my cars have a clutches lol.
I feel if you're on a bike, its your fault for not avoiding the situation, regardless of the outcome/situation that made it happen. If we were concerned for safety we wouldnt be risking ANY by riding a bike.

The majority of accidents are from ignorance or compacincy on a bike and losing focus on the events happening around a rider. Wrecks more often caused by riders going outside their comfort zone for the day(wreck being a no-car influenced accident.)
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Old 10-31-2010, 09:15 PM   #6
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[quoteI
99% of the time it is the CAGERS FAULT

yes we could do more to prevent it, but what your saying is it was the innocent couples fault for getting gunned down by a mugger because they wanted to go see a late night showing of "[insert theatre production here]"[/quote]

In your example, it would be like gunman jumping out and the couple talking smack to the gun man. Then that helps up the chances of getting hurt.

so what i'm saying is going too fast, not paying attention, will up the chances of you getting hurt.


Don't get me wrong on this. I'm not trying to make this a "IF we speed this will happen". It's more about... is it really the cages fault. Are we helping get ourselves into wrecks.
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Old 10-31-2010, 09:15 PM   #7
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99% of the it's the cagers fault? Bullshit.
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Old 10-31-2010, 09:25 PM   #8
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Let me be more specific then... since people still don't understand. When the accident scene investigation team determines it was the cagers fault, 99% of the time it is the cagers fault.

You guys can "pro cager" all you want. Or arbitrarily assume and blame it on the biker saying "He must have been speeding", and "He probably wasn't paying attention". But accident scene investigation in Houston is usually very good at their job, and with the stigma surrounding bike riders in Houston I doubt very seriously they go in rooting for the guy on 2 wheels.
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Old 10-31-2010, 09:26 PM   #9
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Old 10-31-2010, 09:40 PM   #10
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I know ALOT of the people on this board don't want to admit it but I believe
that the majority (51+%) of bike vs other vehicle accidents could have been avoided by the bike.

Yes, a vast majority the cage may have been cited as the negligent party but seeing how they have a cage and you don't, the moral victory really isn't worth it.

I am soooo not pointing fingers, I ride like a hat at least for a few minutes a day. I do ALOT of commuting miles. But I also ride very defencivly in traffic which means I don't always obey the laws but do what I feel is the safest for me at that point and time. I wait a extra second when that light changes and clear both directions before I go. I keep my speed slightly above the pace of traffic so I am not paceing traffic. I will change lanes (with a signal) as often as needed to get to the front of a pack of cars.

I have personaly known several people over the years that have died in bike accidents. All were very good riders that either got lazy or over confident in
a particular situation.

happens, we all get caught out from time to time. Being responsable is
recognizing what WE DID WRONG and what WE COULD HAVE DONE DIFFERENT to change the outcome or avoided it all together.

There has been far too many RIP threads this year. It's going to be a warm
winter so there is still plenty of riding season for more.

Please take care and don't become the next one. We are all brothers, wether you care to aknowledge it or not.


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Old 10-31-2010, 09:44 PM   #11
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There is a huge difference between riders fault, and rider could have prevented though.

Nearly every single accident can be prevented. We are aware of this.

But to run around blaming the rider on an open forum with very little facts is not only really asinine, but extremely disrespectful to his loved ones which may be viewing your comments.
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Old 10-31-2010, 09:50 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CaligoneTx View Post
I feel if you're on a bike, its your fault for not avoiding the situation, regardless of the outcome/situation that made it happen.
Absolutely ludicrous
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Old 10-31-2010, 09:55 PM   #13
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Old 10-31-2010, 09:57 PM   #14
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I have gone down 4 times in my riding history on the road. The first time I was following a guy on a dark river road and did not know my surroundings. He hit a 90 ahead of me an I did not know what I was getting into. I saw it at the last moment and down geared 2 times and went into the corner at a full dive. I almost made it until my rear wheel hit the soft gravel on the side of the road and sent me down the ditch at over 70 mph. It hurt.

Second time I was turning left from a slow stop. The person in front changed lane into my lane without warning and drove me into the curb. Hurt more.

Third time I was in bumper to bumper traffic on 45 south and the car in my left lane came across and actually knocked me over while I was at a dead stop. Did not hurt but my bike still has the scars on it.

The last time I was going around a 110 degree turn onto a road that I had been driving on for over 10 years. The road crew dropped pea gravel on the road and I was not expecting it. I drove my bike into a divider wall and broke my leg and neared totaled my bike.

So, my experience is that its not always the cagers fault but its not always the bikers fault either. It's usually a bit of both with a little bit of nature thrown in for good luck(or bad luck)
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Old 10-31-2010, 10:03 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CaligoneTx View Post
I feel if you're on a bike, its your fault for not avoiding the situation, regardless of the outcome/situation that made it happen.
Quote:
Originally Posted by DvlRacer View Post
Absolutely ludicrous
How so? People dont wear gear by choice, they ride against the laws established by choice, they dont leave adequate room around them to ride nor ride the speed limits by choice... They got on their bike to go ride by their choice. If you're willing to assume someone in a larger, protective vehicle(though potentially lethal to you) will control their vehicle for your safety first or be willing to offer blind assurance that said stranger is more concerned about your self being then driving to wherever they are going while listening to music, talking on the phone, replaying their arguement w their spouse and making a grocery list for their kids for lunches then I'd agree to your comment.

Otherwise I'll continue to ride like I am in control of what Im operating within the laws I must obey and accept the responsibilities that come with it. Last ticket I got was from making an "unsafe lane change" w multiple other witnesses on bikes and the cop admitted I used a turn signal and hand gesture when I was coming up to a stoplight but since it was a "no tolerance" weekend he ticketed me(Clute.)

I didnt go after the other insurance company for damages, time off work, medical bills or anything; why? I told my honest truth to the officer that did the report and my insurance company and dealt w my own circumstances from the accident. I knew as soon as I felt the car hit me what happened and where I was wrong as well as them. But Im fortunate, I hear near every accident/wreck the bike is to blame because it "came out from under me" or "did this or that." Thank goodness I ride bikes I can control and take personal responsibility for.
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Old 10-31-2010, 10:07 PM   #16
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I'll be sure to prepare better next time I am at a stoplight and the person behind me jumps the gun because they thought the green arrow for right turn in the lane to the left of them meant they can go, even though the like for moving through the intersection was still red.

Clearly it was my fault when that happened to me.
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Old 10-31-2010, 10:11 PM   #17
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Old 10-31-2010, 10:12 PM   #18
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Quote:
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yeah you controlled that 250 right into that Mercedes Benz about what 3 weeks ago on a benefit ride ..
Rule number one. Never hit anything that cost more than your bike. LOL
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Old 11-01-2010, 07:32 AM   #19
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Quote:
Let me be more specific then... since people still don't understand. When the accident scene investigation team determines it was the cagers fault, 99% of the time it is the cagers fault.
This is a HUGE difference than simply saying
Quote:
99% of the time it is the CAGERS FAULT
.


Quote:
But to run around blaming the rider on an open forum with very little facts is not only really asinine, but extremely disrespectful to his loved ones which may be viewing your comments.
It's also asinine to immediately blame and/or refer to the 'cager' as an idiot or too. Many of the reports we 'get' or see, have not yet been investigated by the investigation team. , the whole 'cager'/'rider' thing is relatively stupid... we don't have that many 'people that 'ride' only.
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Old 11-01-2010, 07:43 AM   #20
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I don't run around blaming anyone I just give best wishes to the family and RIP to the rider.

I have a serious problem with trash talking a dead rider when a news report indicates fault to the cager. It is so disrespectful to the surviving family who reads it

So if you can't say something nice. off their RIP thread
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