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Old 10-28-2010, 10:26 AM   #61
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My point exact gps speeds on a 600cc bike is between 160-171 for the new bikes 1000cc 175-189 and busa and zx14 186-200 unrestricted think about it why restrict a bike if they can only do 186
a STOCK bike will not hit 200mph at this point, even if you take off the speed restriction
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Old 10-28-2010, 10:32 AM   #62
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yeah, that additional 20 hp was good for about another 5 mph in the mile. look at the bikes that are running right at 200, i bet they are putting down about 210-220hp
Josh was under 200 on Cheese's dyno. and he went over 200 mph.
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Old 10-28-2010, 10:33 AM   #63
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I little MR9 does help
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Old 10-28-2010, 10:33 AM   #64
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I little MR9 does help
did he dyno with MR9?
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Old 10-28-2010, 10:44 AM   #65
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Yes. He was tuned for it
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Old 10-28-2010, 10:53 AM   #66
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ok, so maybe it was 200hp is about what you need for 200mph in the mile. but i know a stock bike won't do it.
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Old 10-28-2010, 11:19 AM   #67
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The BMW (and it saddens me to say being I'm a busa rider) is the fastest bike, but not by top speed as that title can't be taken from 99 and 00 busa being that everything since has been regulated. Now if you deregulate the busa still holds more slots in the Texas Mile 200 club (and most aren't turbo). So I would GUESS (yes guess) due to what most of the people say on the busa sites that they can do over 200 w/ a PC3, exhaust and intake (small mods like that). So let's just see if any BMW's make it to the 200 club.

Now the BMW IS beating up on everything including super bikes. It's beating the busa in most runs (0-60, 0-100, 1/4 mi, etc) only by like .1 of a second. Nothing major, but very impressive for a liter bike. It's going to change all the rules of engagement. Meaning ALL the companies (especially with the larger bikes) are going to have to reply to that 1000rr. I (liking suzuki) hope they all make a good reply. (It only took 11 years for someone to really do it to the busa). I hope it don't take that long 'til another manufacture does something impressive as BMW as a lot of the changes in bikes lately (as far as speed goes) have been luke warm at best.

Now that said and done, the busa for sure and I assume zx14 (being I've never ridden one) are far more comfortable bikes, and rounded out bikes. It's easy to go fast or go for a 6 hour long road trip and not kill your on it.

I'm not hatting on the BMW either. , if I could afford one, I'd have one, but I wouldn't trade my busa in for it.
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Old 10-28-2010, 11:31 AM   #68
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My whole point was the busa and zx14 r are king of top speed BMW tops out at 192 unrestricted gps true speed how come they not restricted because all the 1000 cc bikes can't handle speeds over that dobro natures elements on paper tgey do but on the road they won't they are unstable at high speeds . Busa was build for 200+ so was the zx14 . BMW is nice but will be restricted in the us like the rest to 186 if not I will raise so he'll
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Old 10-28-2010, 11:49 AM   #69
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Funny, the restrictions weren't made due to the US market. It was Europe that got the speed regulators.

Either way, I do wonder how stable or not the RR is. Yes the zx and busa were built to be stable at speed (and having only done 150 once on mine, can say I was surprised at how stable it was just at that speed)... (yes my manhood shrunk up and I haven't been back to it yet).

And to all the people who don't think the busa isn't capable of doing over 200. The difference in the Gen1s that did (99 & 00) and the rest (01 - 07) was the second set had the regulator. The 08 added horses, so you know they will too. What's keeping them from doing it. A regulator and/or the rider's nuts.
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Old 10-28-2010, 12:23 PM   #70
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Mine has been pegged more times than I can count. I still have little nuts though.
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Old 10-28-2010, 12:51 PM   #71
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Funny, the restrictions weren't made due to the US market. It was Europe that got the speed regulators.

Either way, I do wonder how stable or not the RR is. Yes the zx and busa were built to be stable at speed (and having only done 150 once on mine, can say I was surprised at how stable it was just at that speed)... (yes my manhood shrunk up and I haven't been back to it yet).

And to all the people who don't think the busa isn't capable of doing over 200. The difference in the Gen1s that did (99 & 00) and the rest (01 - 07) was the second set had the regulator. The 08 added horses, so you know they will too. What's keeping them from doing it. A regulator and/or the rider's nuts.
i don't think anybody is arguing that. the point is that a stock busa.... let me reiterate, a STOCK BUSA, meaning no mods whatsoever, EXCEPT for the TRE, WILL NOT do 200mph. an 08 with an exhaust or PC3, is no longer stock. the top speed limiter is NOT the reason a busa or 14 will not go 200mph, it has to do with horsepower.
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Old 10-28-2010, 01:09 PM   #72
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i don't think anybody is arguing that. the point is that a stock busa.... let me reiterate, a STOCK BUSA, meaning no mods whatsoever, EXCEPT for the TRE, WILL NOT do 200mph. an 08 with an exhaust or PC3, is no longer stock. the top speed limiter is NOT the reason a busa or 14 will not go 200mph, it has to do with horsepower.


Not exactly accurate. The limit the on the RPM's in 6th is the ultimate reason they wont do it.
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Old 10-28-2010, 01:10 PM   #73
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An increase in the RPM limit and one down in the rear should make it possible on a gen 2
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Old 10-28-2010, 01:33 PM   #74
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An increase in the RPM limit and one down in the rear should make it possible on a gen 2
mmm, not really at least not mathematically speaking

assuming the following numbers
1.596 primary drive ratio
190/50/17 tire that is given to ~5% expansion under stress and heat
a final drive ratio 18/43
and .625 chain pitch on a 114 link chain

(all stock)

It is "capable" of doing over 200 mph before hitting the rev limiter (this occurs somewhere around 10400 rpms). I just dont think the bike has the power to push it there stock.
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Old 10-28-2010, 01:38 PM   #75
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mmm, not really at least not mathematically speaking

assuming the following numbers
1.596 primary drive ratio
190/50/17 tire that is given to ~5% expansion under stress and heat
a final drive ratio 18/43
and .625 chain pitch on a 114 link chain

(all stock)

It is "capable" of doing over 200 mph before hitting the rev limiter (this occurs somewhere around 10400 rpms). I just dont think the bike has the power to push it there stock.
exactly
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Old 10-28-2010, 01:39 PM   #76
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Hence the -1 rear and an increase in the upper limit. I have seen what ammounts to a programmer + tune , -1 rear, pipe, and MR9 do it in a standing mile. Im not sure what math you are using. And what is a .625 pitch?
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Old 10-28-2010, 01:43 PM   #77
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The fact that a TRE helps it pass the limiter shows there is more there. I think it only gives a few 100 more though. I wont argue that the small increase in HP that mods give make a difference. I cant help but think it can be done with -1 rear and MR9. Josh is no light weight. I think he went 203 and change.
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Old 10-28-2010, 01:45 PM   #78
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http://www.dragbike.com/dbnews/anmviewer.asp?a=3669&z=4

it took 200hp to get 200mph in the mile on a gen 2

or how about some math?

Fairly straightforward calculation, and I'm bored today at work so...

Assuming a 77" roll out tire, and stock 18/43 gearing with a typical 2% slip, engine RPM to go 200 MPH (294 Ft/sec) is 11,150 RPM. We know that the primary and secondary gear ratios in 6th give us a total ratio of 3.98:1
293 ft/sec= (11150rpm/60)*(.98)/3.979*77"/12"/ft
So if the motor is spinning at 11,200 RPMs, how much power must it be making at that point? Well drag force is Fd=.5Cd*A*p*V^2, and the Cd*A of the busa has been measured several times to be around 3.48 for someone with a reasonable tuck and slightly lowered chassis. So...
Drag force = (.5)*(3.48)*(.075 lb/ft^3)*(294ft/sec)^2 = 352 lb force
There is a good reason why you don't sit up to slow down.
That force can be calculated back to engine NET Torque at the rear tire by knowing the radius of the tire and the total gear ratio.
NET Torque = 252 lbF*1.02 ft/3.98 = 90.2 ft-lb torque.
Again, this is net, not gross crank torque since you need this much at the back tire to create that amount of force.

Since HP = Torque *RPM / 5250, We can quickly calculate that 90 Ft-lbs at 11150 RMP is about 192 HP Net.

But thats not the total story. Emperically you eat up about 20 to 25 HP with rolling resistance depending on how much air pressure and the type of wheel bearings you have. With ceramic bearings and 45 psi in the tires, maybe the number is 15HP?
So, it takes about 207 to 220 HP to go 200 MPH depending on your size and your tuck and your bearings, etc.
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Old 10-28-2010, 01:49 PM   #79
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chain pitch is a way to measure the distance between links

or more specifically the distance between any 3 links divided by 2
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Old 10-28-2010, 01:50 PM   #80
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sbfuller View Post
http://www.dragbike.com/dbnews/anmviewer.asp?a=3669&z=4

it took 200hp to get 200mph in the mile on a gen 2

or how about some math?

Fairly straightforward calculation, and I'm bored today at work so...

Assuming a 77" roll out tire, and stock 18/43 gearing with a typical 2% slip, engine RPM to go 200 MPH (294 Ft/sec) is 11,150 RPM. We know that the primary and secondary gear ratios in 6th give us a total ratio of 3.98:1
293 ft/sec= (11150rpm/60)*(.98)/3.979*77"/12"/ft
So if the motor is spinning at 11,200 RPMs, how much power must it be making at that point? Well drag force is Fd=.5Cd*A*p*V^2, and the Cd*A of the busa has been measured several times to be around 3.48 for someone with a reasonable tuck and slightly lowered chassis. So...
Drag force = (.5)*(3.48)*(.075 lb/ft^3)*(294ft/sec)^2 = 352 lb force
There is a good reason why you don't sit up to slow down.
That force can be calculated back to engine NET Torque at the rear tire by knowing the radius of the tire and the total gear ratio.
NET Torque = 252 lbF*1.02 ft/3.98 = 90.2 ft-lb torque.
Again, this is net, not gross crank torque since you need this much at the back tire to create that amount of force.

Since HP = Torque *RPM / 5250, We can quickly calculate that 90 Ft-lbs at 11150 RMP is about 192 HP Net.

But thats not the total story. Emperically you eat up about 20 to 25 HP with rolling resistance depending on how much air pressure and the type of wheel bearings you have. With ceramic bearings and 45 psi in the tires, maybe the number is 15HP?
So, it takes about 207 to 220 HP to go 200 MPH depending on your size and your tuck and your bearings, etc.
Good write up, I was just pointing out that if the busa can get to rev limit it can do it. But yeah that shows how far away it is from stock (power related)

EDIT: and of course there's a lot of other issues to deal with: wind, humidity, temperature, road surface, blah.
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