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Old 07-28-2006, 01:19 PM   #21
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yuppers...

but the MAIN reason ur tires hopping is cuz ur loading ur front forks and downshifting...

mhmm
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Old 07-28-2006, 01:20 PM   #22
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it has very little to do w/ teh ft forks.......and all to do w/ speed and downshifting........and not matching speed properly.
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Old 07-28-2006, 01:22 PM   #23
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like moody said, if you really wanna learn, take a trackday class.........and listen to better inst. then US i-net geniuses.
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Old 07-28-2006, 01:23 PM   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Moody
You should use everything you have to slow the bike down and if you engine brake properly it will keep your motor under load at the correct RPMs and give you optimal power for drive out of the corners.
Wear & Tear.

Personally, I'd rather replace brake pads than crankshafts.

To each his own though.
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Old 07-28-2006, 01:26 PM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by denhou1974
Wear & Tear.

Personally, I'd rather replace brake pads than crankshafts.

To each his own though.
and thats what i tell people in class for street riding.......but the track is a diff animal altogether.
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Old 07-28-2006, 01:27 PM   #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RACER X
it has very little to do w/ teh ft forks.......and all to do w/ speed and downshifting........and not matching speed properly.

hmm.. well when i load my front brakes .. which compresses the forks...

and then down shift (yes going fast) it dumps the rpms over .. and the tire brakes loose.. and literally HOPS.. cuz the rear spring isnt loaded.. the weights in the front..

but when u dont load the front brakes...
feather the rear if necessary to load the rear spring.. and lean back even a little to help.. and let dump the rpms.. it "slidess"...

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Old 07-28-2006, 01:30 PM   #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by denhou1974
Personally, I'd rather replace brake pads than crankshafts.

To each his own though.
More then likely you will blow your clutch first and if you are looking to get your lap times down then you are going to have to forget about your traditional thoughts about braking. Because to go faster you need to use less brakes. You should want to get to the point where you are only using them to trail into the apex. Although each track and corner in its own animal and requires its own aproach. Take for instance TWS (Texas World Speedway) and the T1,T2,T3 combo. Done at a good race pace T1 will essentially not exist and with the right timing on the downshifts and a slight tap on the brakes to make sure they are there you will flow right through T2 but at this pace you well better be ready to downshift hard, grip the tank with your legs (to save your man hood) and use all the brakes you can while the bike is straigh up. Because T3 comes up real fast and is a slippery devil to be loading up the front end in.
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Old 07-28-2006, 01:33 PM   #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by schecterx
hmm.. well when i load my front brakes .. which compresses the forks...

and then down shift (yes going fast) it dumps the rpms over .. and the tire brakes loose.. and literally HOPS.. cuz the rear spring isnt loaded.. the weights in the front..

but when u dont load the front brakes...
feather the rear if necessary to load the rear spring.. and lean back even a little to help.. and let dump the rpms.. it "slidess"...

With the right combo of braking and clutching you can keep the front end loaded correctly and avoid some of this. Until you get one of those nasty bumps and bottom out your springs or something. :eh:
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Old 07-28-2006, 01:41 PM   #29
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hahaha yea...

i was just trying to explain to em why it JUMPS...

they can figure proper load etc by time and feel..

i need to get some new springs for my front forks..
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Old 07-28-2006, 01:43 PM   #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by schecterx
hahaha yea...

i was just trying to explain to em why it JUMPS...

they can figure proper load etc by time and feel..

i need to get some new springs for my front forks..
Yeah, having it sprung for your weight changes everything.
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Old 07-28-2006, 01:44 PM   #31
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I miss the track!
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Old 07-28-2006, 01:47 PM   #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Moody
You should want to get to the point where you are only using them to trail into the apex.
Does this mean that you're using engine braking to set corner entry speed and only using brakes for 'trail braking'?
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Old 07-28-2006, 01:51 PM   #33
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i'm too lazy to read if anyone already told him that his bike doesn't have a slipper clutch. love my slipper clutch though.
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Old 07-28-2006, 01:53 PM   #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by denhou1974
Does this mean that you're using engine braking to set corner entry speed and only using brakes for 'trail braking'?
No not entirely. All depends on the track and corners. That is why I tried to add the little example afterwards but at TWS (Texas World Speedway) alot of the track flows in this manner. As well as the old Cressen track.
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Old 07-28-2006, 02:00 PM   #35
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interesting stuff ...
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Old 07-28-2006, 05:08 PM   #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by denhou1974
Brake more before you downshift. The purpose of downshifting should be to select the correct gear for maximum drive out of the corner, not to slow the bike. Also, you can blip the throttle or let the clutch out slower.
There's the answer^^^


Quote:
Originally Posted by Moody
to go faster you need to use less brakes.
I disagree with you on this one. The faster you go, the more brakes you have to use.
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Old 07-28-2006, 05:14 PM   #37
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here you go it was posted by a nouther member.


FYI:


1. Downshifting smoothly on a sportbike, especially while braking hard from high speed, requires a definite measure of skill and dexterity. In order to avoid upsetting the bike, the engine rpm must be matched to road speed when the clutch is fully disengaged, otherwise the rear tire will momentarily "chatter" and upset the bike as the engine is forced to match road speed involuntarily. This means that the rider must "blip" the throttle to raise the engine rpm during downshifts-but he must do this while simultaneously pulling on the front brake lever to slow down. While this riding skill is obviously necessary on the racetrack, it can also pay big dividends in street-riding situations where riding smoothly is a must; for instance, any situation where you are cornering and braking at the same time.



2. The idea of blipping the throttle between downshifts can be intimidating for the uninitiated, but with a little practice, the technique can soon become second nature. First, make sure that your levers are adjusted so that they are comfortably in reach of your fingers when sitting in a normal riding position, and that your throttle is adjusted for minimal play in the cable. The front brake lever should be angled downward enough to be easily gripped with your hand in the closed throttle position. With the engine running in neutral, try blipping the throttle slightly while pulling firmly on the brake lever-note that it doesn't take much throttle movement to get the revs up. Then practice simultaneously pulling and releasing the clutch quickly when you blip the throttle (remembering to continue pulling on the brake lever as if you were slowing for a corner).



3. The next step is to practice this technique while riding in a safe area with no traffic. As you brake and begin your downshift, simply perform the same practice drill as before, but add the act of downshifting. The action of blipping the throttle and the downshift should be simultaneous and quick, and it doesn't take a whole lot of revs to match the engine to road speed; unless you're riding at racetrack aggression levels, all it will require is a slight throttle blip. With practice, you'll know just how much is necessary at various speeds. Note that mostly the palm of your hand handles the act of moving the throttle because your upper body weight is centered on your palms under braking anyway, and your fingers are busy actuating the brake and holding the bar. All it takes is a slight wrist movement to blip the throttle. You'll find this will help avoid affecting your braking action due to influencing your fingers' grip on the brake lever.



4. If you find that you still have problems with this technique, try adjusting your brake lever in so that it's easier to reach (without hindering your ability to pull the lever in for maximum braking, of course). If you still have trouble, you will have to employ the "non-blip" method many racers (such as AMA perennial front-runner Eric Bostrom) still use. This simply means the clutch is released gradually after the downshift so that the engine rpms can progressively match road speed without the rear wheel chattering. The downside is that the rider loses the added engine braking while the clutch is disengaged and the bike "freewheels," and he must compensate with the additional use of the brakes during this time. Also, it requires even more skill at manipulating and controlling the bike while simultaneously releasing the clutch lever slowly and gradually.
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Old 07-28-2006, 05:28 PM   #38
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hey porshe next time your at msr ask buck if he can run a lap with you and watch you his advice fixed my probs, youll eventualy have to get used to it hopping and just learn to "play" with it :icon_bigg
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Old 07-28-2006, 05:31 PM   #39
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Quote:
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^ more explanation!!!!
1. brake more
2. don't get completely off the gas (keep it slightly cracked)
3. count one full second later than you usually do THEN downshift
4. when you do downshift blip it...

Blipping It:
Done while engine braking going on & the throttle is still cracked...
-- a. in on the clutch (stops engine braking)
-- b. downshift a gear
-- c. raise the rpm's (by quickly snapping throttle up 1x rpms)
-- d. on the way back down in the rpm's, you release/engage the clutch


tire does not break lose...

making it all happen smoothly kicks when it happens...

you can actually practice it on the street... coming up to a stop sign or stop light...

i do it on my nighthawk all the time... helps get you familiar with matching rpms going from one gear to another...
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Old 07-31-2006, 01:43 AM   #40
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smooth = fast. work being smooth first rather than coming into every corner hotter than you're accustomed to and having to brake hard to set your entry speed. You have to control your urge to try and be "fast" from the beginning, take it slow and build up your speeds and comfort zone progressively. Set your entry speed early and carry that speed into the turn rather than charging in, braking hard, and losing your momentum.

That's why a few folks like Keith Code advocate not using your brakes at all until you can judge correct entry speed, then build your speeds and braking as you gain more experience and comfort level. Some ppl can learn this quicker than others (usually the young folks), but there's no shame in learning slower. I'm no expert but I've learned a lot more in less time taking this approach.

anyways as far as breaking the rear loose, this is not good if it's wheel hop from changing gears. you prevent this by blipping throttle, as said previously... and letting out the clutch easy if you dont match it just right. as you get more practice at setting engine speed to road speed and gear selection, you dont need to feather the clutch. A slipper clutch makes things easier at the track as it removes the need to feather the clutch to match revs if you're off a little bit...however, on my ghetto bike the only "slipper clutch" I have is my left hand.
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