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Old 08-30-2010, 02:10 PM   #21
Ulric
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...or another way to put it, is that reliance on 'noise' would be a mistake. While it may on occasion enhance, improving ones 'skills' is likely to produce more effective results.
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Old 08-30-2010, 02:10 PM   #22
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true enough. but then again, if everyone drove responsibly, no one would ever crash into each other and there would be no need to insurance or lawyers.lol
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Old 08-30-2010, 02:13 PM   #23
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true enough. but then again, if everyone drove responsibly, no one would ever crash into each other and there would be no need to insurance or lawyers.lol
or rip threads... :-)
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Old 08-30-2010, 02:18 PM   #24
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true enough. but then again, if everyone drove responsibly, no one would ever crash into each other and there would be no need to insurance or lawyers.lol
one can only wish
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Old 08-30-2010, 02:25 PM   #25
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I hear bikes all the time and I drive a bmw. You can hear them coming if ur not distracted. I have a very loud exhaust ask any one. And if I'm OBAYING the law and speed and not ZOOming by cars I see people looking and their mirrors and they can see me 100 feet back. So in my case yes they save lives but like the sound plus I wear headphones while I ride
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Old 08-30-2010, 02:27 PM   #26
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i know they can too, but the real question is this, "could the loud pipes be eliminated if riders were more aware of their surroundings?" i.e. don't ride in cars blind spots and always have an escape route?if that was the case, would loud pipes save more lives than responsible riding? I'm not saying that everyone should have silent pipes, but obnoxiously loud is just that, obnoxious.
I never drove big trucks but I have hauled large loads, while you can be more aware of your surroundings, you cannot avoid blind spots on cars. In bumper to bumper traffic you are going to have people move over on you no matter what you do. I have found in my short time that the horn is absolutely worthless on my bike even when I am riding at the driver door of a car coming over. Exhaust is the only noise I can make to make them realize as I speed out of the way. Either way, mines not obnoxious anyways.

With that said, pipes do not save more lives than responsible driving. Even when being responsible you have different scenarios in which a loud pipe would give you just a little more help. The most responsible rider in the world is still a target for a bad cager.
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Old 08-30-2010, 02:27 PM   #27
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Loud is one thing. I dont really have a problem with loud. The sound of a harley is annoying even at lower dbs. I dont thnik it helps safety wise. I do know that a cop can hear you back off when he sees you and is trying to clock you, though.
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Old 08-30-2010, 02:33 PM   #28
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I would think a good horn and defensive driving would be as effective as loud pipes, and a whole lot less annoying. Personally, I like my bike quiet and annonymous and save my hearing for music. I stay out of peoples blind spots and don't rip around people at +20 weaving through traffic and I only use my horn once or twice a year.

I don't really care though if you want to have loud pipes. Eventually it will be illegal everywhere just like smoking, so you might as well enjoy them while you can.
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Old 08-30-2010, 02:42 PM   #29
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I don't like the sound of loud bikes or loud cars, unless they belong to me, and I think they are cool. But I've matured to the point I don't care who is looking at me, my bikes, or my cars and I recognize making unnecessary noise degrades the overall quality of life for my fellow Americans. I've never really cared if I get squeezed, pinched, pulled over on, or cut off by another car. I ride quickly and defensively and assume all cars can't see me. When I hear a bike that's 1/4 mile ahead of me on the highway, I just wince and think that every other driver on the road must be thinking the same exact thing as me: "Who is that smalled dicked douche bag unnecessarily intruding on my peace and serenity?" Then I laugh at all the times I must have been that guy.
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Old 08-30-2010, 02:58 PM   #30
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I have personally prevented people merging into my lane with a few quick blips of the throttle. This was on my Drz400, yoshi pipe w/ probably no packing left in the muffler...

It is no mistake that i reached for the throttle instead of tooting my rinky dirtbike horn.

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Old 08-30-2010, 03:00 PM   #31
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Old 08-30-2010, 03:04 PM   #32
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Quote:
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Loud pipes = short . Ask Mudbug. He's running open pipes
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Old 08-30-2010, 03:09 PM   #33
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note, before you argue with this... look up my name in a dictionary, and ask someone what I do for my 9-5.

IDK if it was already addressed, but...

6 db = 2X sound.

so 70 DB is 1/2 as loud as 76 DB,
96DB is twice as loud as 90 DB,
and so on.

Constant sound levels over 90DB can cause hearing damage

So... if you car is over 90DB, I hope you are wearing hearing protection. and if you think a 100 DB bike is not much louder than your 90DB car... It is more than twice as loud as the interior of your car.


Now for some other facts...


Kawasaki Vulcan 1500
"Sound levels were tested at the AMA standard of 20 inches at 45-degree angle from the pipe opening with the sound meter facing away from the pipe and the engine at a constant 3000 rpm. The drive-by sound test was taken at a distance of 12 feet with the Classic driving by at a constant 45 mph in second gear, which translates to about 3000 rpm in the real world."

Stock System
Sound level at 20 in.: 92 db

Cobra
Sound level at 20 in.: 103 db


Now consider pulling the baffles.. how much louder is it now?






I dont like loud pipes, but I can agree that they do save lives. They *can be* loud enough for dumb that dont pay attention to hear. And if I wanted people to know where I was in traffic, I would have them on everything.

Additionally, this tidbit was also to show how skewed #s can look. They used #s from 80~ to 100~ to make you think its more like a percentage. They left out the fact that 20DB = ~10X sound level.

80DB = 100%
86DB = 200%
92DB = 400%
98DB = 800%
and so on.

So dont be fooled by people that play with numbers to make look in their favor.

who wrote that ? Obama or Ross Pero?(spelling on Pero is questionable)
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Old 08-30-2010, 03:12 PM   #34
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I don't know where you're getting your numbers but average human speaking is produced somewhere between 55-70dB. Also, 90dB isn't twice as loud as 85dB, it's like 3.16 times as loud. 88dB is twice as loud as 85dB. The power factor is 10^(x/10) which is roughly two (x=dB increase). The problem with threads like these are the people posting in them don't have any idea about acoustics.

If the sound level outside of a car at 70mph is 90dB (which I am sure it is more) and the motorcycle exhaust is 105dB, then the motorcycle exhuast is 31.6 times louder (10^(15/10). Even with sound reducing materials in the car (which are a set reducing number of decibels) the motorcycle exhaust is still MUCH louder than the interior of the car.

The exhaust sound level measurement at a stand still is the same for the motorcycle when it is moving. For instance, if you measure your exhaust 20feet in front of your motorcycle at a stand still and it is 98dB at cruising RPM, it will be 98dB when you are moving too and will increase as you get closer to the car you are overtaking.

Fact is, a person inside a car can absolutely hear the motorcycle with louder pipes much sooner than a motorcycle with quieter pipes. There is no refuting that.

Whether or not it saves lives is up to each individual and their personal experiences. I know for a fact I am heard much sooner on my streetfighter with open exhaust than I am on my 1125R with the stock exhaust. That said, I don't rely on that. Don't ride with your head up your and you'll be much better off with any set of pipes on your motorcycle...loud or quiet.
Good post, my only question is the highlighted as it seems that an engine is louder under the same RPMs when under a load. I could be wrong but that is the way it seems. I know my truck was MUCH louder under a load.
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Old 08-30-2010, 03:13 PM   #35
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And i think someone up there is confusing DB level with SPL

6 DB = 2x sound

3 DB = 2x SPL (which is alittle different than what is actually heard.)
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Old 08-30-2010, 03:16 PM   #36
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1. dB (Decibel) - a term used to describe sound pressure level.
2. An increase of 3dB in sound pressure level is twice the power.
3. When you double the distance from a given point, the sound level decreases 6dB. *
4. RT60 is the time it takes for a sound such as a ballon burst to decay 60 Decibels.
5. A 60 Decibel increase is equal to increasing the power 1,000,000 times.
6. To hear a 1dB change in sound, you need to be in a recording studio or similar room.
7. To double the (perceived) loudness of sound, you need to double the power 3 times, or 9dB.* Another way to describe it is to say 10 times the power. If 10 watts = 70dB at 50 ft, you will need 100 watts for 80dB at 50 ft. To increase the level to 90dB you will need 1000 watts of power. (Most round off to10dB difference to describe doubling the loudness. It does make it easier to plan a sound system that way.)
8. Sound travels at 1130 feet per second.
9. The tone of a sound is called "frequency".
10. The wavelength of 80Hz (the low end of a persons voice) is 14.06 feet.
11. To create a sound, an object has to vibrate a full cycle of movement which involves a push and pull motion.
12. 3dB - the smallest amount of sound pressure change average people can hear.
13. A decrease of 3dB in sound pressure level is cutting the power in half.
14. When you half the distance from a given point, the sound level increases 6dB.*
15. Frequency is "vibrations per second", which in turn is called "Hertz" (Hz)
16. The human voice has both fundamental vibrations and harmonic vibrations.
17. The Energy or Fundamentals of the human voice has a range of 80Hz to 1200Hz. .
18. Harmonics extend the range of the human voice up to 6,000Hz.
19. Harmonics are multiple vibrations of the fundamentals.
20. Harmonics are what make each voice and instrument different sounding.
21. ESSS sounds in speech are often caused by the spaces in a person's teeth.
22. For a surface to control a frequency, it has to be as thick as 1/4 the wavelength. (Carpet 3/4-inch thick with 1/2-inch underpad begins to absorb sound above 2,000Hz.)
23. Building acoustical control into a church when it's being built often doesn't cost the church anything extra except for the knowledge of how to do it.
24. Sound travels through water faster than through the air.
25. Sound travels faster as humidity increases.
26. ESSS sounds are from 5,000Hz to 9,000Hz.
27. The wavelength of 2,000Hz is 6.75 inches.
28. The wavelength of 200Hz is 5.63 feet..
29. Carpet absorbs sound above the speech range, making carpet a poor controller of speech in a large room. This also kills the musical aspect of the room.
30. What is not absorbed by a surface (like carpet) is reflected back into the room.
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Old 08-30-2010, 03:18 PM   #37
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Old 08-30-2010, 03:19 PM   #38
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Take it for what its worth.

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Old 08-30-2010, 03:19 PM   #39
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Old 08-30-2010, 03:23 PM   #40
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SPL is sound pressure level, its a mechanical way of measuring sound.

the 6db doubling is best fit for the application in question.


lastly,

F U Racer X(where ever you are)
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