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Old 05-04-2010, 04:47 PM   #61
ducoop
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Originally Posted by DrAwkwArD View Post
Drivel? You can't be serious? You're either brainwashed or having difficulty understanding what I'm saying...I bet it's the latter. You're telling me that just because one has a bike capable of going over 150mph that they will do it? That's bullshit. Complete and utter bullshit. Just because you can doesn't mean you will (same can be said about firearms). You only go as fast as you want. The motorcycle doesn't dictate to the rider how fast it will go...the rider dictates that to the motorcycle. How you are disagreeing with me on that is beyond me.
I will not argue that top speed the bike is capable of is the issue. What is an issue for an inexperienced rider is the power available to put down to the rear wheel. It can get away from them quickly. Not every rider will have an issue with this but many will.

If you can't admit that many people just don't have the restraint or skills to LEARN on a big bike then your not thinking. It is on the rider to control the bike but a bigger bike can get a rider in trouble faster.
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Old 05-04-2010, 04:51 PM   #62
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Not to post but your harping on a single point for something that has multiple causes.
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Old 05-04-2010, 05:03 PM   #63
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Originally Posted by Badzx14r View Post
you don't wear coffee you drink it ..in case you didn't know ..




maybe she needed to sue the pants designer too because the clothing wasn't water proof.
or maybe she deserved what she recieved in her lap for having butter fingers for hands . then next time she know not to wear the coffee ..but another bunch of dunbazzes as in the jury awarded her cash..
and accidents happen, if it hadn't been near boiling it woulnd't have been an issue. Most NORMAL people don't consume food at temperatures that cause 3rd degree burns... fyi, the jury 'split' the 'fault' to 80/20 and awarded her the cash, in part because of the attitude/actions of McDonald Corp and the fact there had been over 700 incidents reported.


Quote:
Drivel? You can't be serious? You're either brainwashed or having difficulty understanding what I'm saying...I bet it's the latter. You're telling me that just because one has a bike capable of going over 150mph that they will do it? That's bullshit. Complete and utter bullshit. Just because you can doesn't mean you will (same can be said about firearms). You only go as fast as you want. The motorcycle doesn't dictate to the rider how fast it will go...the rider dictates that to the motorcycle. How you are disagreeing with me on that is beyond me.
The problem is you don't understand what we others are trying to explain to you. You're stuck on 'speed' and apparently have a cranial-rectal inversion issue thats making you incapable of understanding anything beyond that.


Quote:
:
Originally Posted by Ulric
I could give a rats to 'just' fatalities... problem is some dipshit in a car/truck/rig pulling out in front of or cutting off a motorcycle, while not killing or even maybe injuring anyonse else, still leaves a LOT of problems issues for others involved. The motorcycle 'hit' alone is likely to need quite a bit of repair, this doesn't take into acount emotional impact, stress etc involved for the innocent party.


There I fixed it. Not all the spelling errors or grammatical mistakes, just the meat.
No, you didn't fix ...just displaying how ignorant and unexperienced you are. Go try to find Kokesh and ask him what a rider and bike can do to someone else... oh wait, you can't. He's dead, so's the operator of the bike he hit, that guys pillion survived though. J. Dominguez...no, he's dead too, but his bike cracked the rear case on a forerunner and HE (not the bike) knocked & damaged two other bikes.

Hey guys, who was the one that did the endo onto the car trunk/hood?
Lol, then there's slowblack05... sure a car 'changed lanes' ahead of him, that kind of happens when you're donig 30-40mph+ over the rest of traffic...and you can't blame the other 'drivers' for that.

Utilizing a tiered system can't stop it...but it can reduce it. An Ex-250 doesnt have the power and acceleration of a FZ-6, gsxr-1k or a busa. It, to a degree forces more time for someone to 'learn' before getting to that 'superbike'.
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Old 05-04-2010, 05:07 PM   #64
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Originally Posted by MadseasoN
They ALREADY tell you which vehicles you can drive (Class C, B, A, M, etc), for the same reasons a tiered M endorsement makes sense.

You are comparing apples to oranges. Those license classes are for completely different vehicles. Operating a motorcycle, whether it is a cruiser, streetfighter, cafe racer or super street bike, all require the same basic skill set. By your logic, I should have to have a different license to operate my sedan, SUV or smart car since their attributes are different. That's asinine...yet again.
When's the last time you drove as a chaffuer(sp?), drove a full size bus or a 'rig'?

...and why the am I bothering to argue with someone with maybe 3 years exp?
(gotta be boredom...)
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Old 05-04-2010, 05:09 PM   #65
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My Skew on the numbers :
In 2008, 30/560 riders killed were under 20 y.o. = thats 5%
In 2008, 57/560 riders killed were over 59 y.o. = thats 10.1%
In 2008, 349/560 fatal crashes were NOT sportbikes = 62.32%

Between 02-08, 66% of bikes crashed were older than 1 y.

So basically if you are under 20, have an old, supersport bike...you have less of a chance of becoming a statistic.

Numbers are not as concrete as you'd think, they can be manipulated like words.
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Old 05-04-2010, 05:31 PM   #66
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Why does it cost me more to insure a sportbike (Which is half the price of my harley) then my harley?


Hmmm?
You are spot on. No one. I mean NO ONE knows the actual statistic better than the insurance companies. Our rates are a direct a reflection of the statistics they collect.
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Old 05-04-2010, 06:53 PM   #67
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Ok, I haven't read all of the posts, but I will say that I don't think regulation wil help. You could regulate the out of it, make it illegal for someone under a certain age or a certain amount of experience to get an SS bike, or just out law them all together, but the same people who will buy an SS bike with no experience and ride unprotected are the same kind of people who would get one even if it was illegal. More regulation only makes it harder for the law abiding and sane to get a bike.

Just my 2 cents.
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Old 05-04-2010, 07:01 PM   #68
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How many 15yr olds do we have here (tx) riding 250's, 600's etc on the street?
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Old 05-04-2010, 07:10 PM   #69
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Also, I'd say That I'm one of the sane ones. Thats why I bought a 500. Some of yall may have heard me say that I want a faster bike already, but thats because the 500 really isn't big enough.( its struggles, I'm a big guy, at 6ft4in and 295lbs) I certainly don't have an invincibility complex, that is, I understand life is fragile and that it could 'happen to me'.


(meant to edit previous reply, but it wouldn't let me.)
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Old 05-04-2010, 07:46 PM   #70
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My first bike was a 1200cc Harley with a sidecar....that thing barely goes to highway speeds.
My point is.... engine displacement does not coincide with performance in anyway. I definitely put out more hp than a Ninja 250, but the power to weight ratio probably makes the 250 faster.

A tiered system is a bad idea....like many people have said so far, a dumbass will be a dumbass whether he's on a 50cc or a 1200 cc.
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Old 05-05-2010, 08:24 AM   #71
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DrAwkwArD View Post
It's thinking like this that graduates to, "Well let's take away everyone's guns so that they won't use them to kill each other." It's idiotic and doesn't solve any problems.

And I'll say it one last time, the size of the motor has NO bearing on whether or not you will die in a crash. The motor does not make you twist the throttle...you can't argue against that. Assuming someone buys a Hayabusa, R1 or a 100cui cruiser because they want to go 200mph is ridiculous. Assuming ANYONE'S intentions on a purchase and then limiting everyone because of that ASSumption is just asanine.



I'll take my chances of a motorcyclist causing a fatal accident for another party over a distracted driver any day of the week. You can't be serious man.
The size has everything to do with it. No the motor does not make you twist the throttle, the fact that you can, makes you twist the throttle. No one can put controls on a motorcycle riders emotions, thoughts, etc. But they can put controls on the size of the bike they ride. If you have a 18 yr old speed junkie for example, he is obviously more likely to die on a 1k+ bike vs a 250. Can he die on a 250, sure he can, but it is MUCH less likely.
It's the fact that idiots are wielding to much HP for their tiny brains to process that kills them. Take away that HP and you will have much less fatalities period. Your argument about size of the engine not making a difference is, ill-conceived at best.
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Old 05-05-2010, 08:49 AM   #72
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Well done lads. Again, Racer X has put the bait out there and...........

I bet he's on the vinegar strokes right now.
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Old 05-05-2010, 09:25 AM   #73
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Old 05-05-2010, 09:25 AM   #74
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Old 05-05-2010, 10:16 AM   #75
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I'm for less government period....... we don't need more regulations, there are plenty on the books to keep big brother busy now...
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Old 05-05-2010, 11:59 AM   #76
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DrAwkwArD View Post
This is all I'm going to say:

Those of you that think a tiered system is the way to go seem to think that you know everything. That's not surprising to me because most of you are most likely old "wise" men with the "get off my lawn" mentality. You probably think I'm some young punk with a speed fetish and that's simply not the case. You can look down upon me because I only have two years of experience on a motorcycle but that has nothing to do with this issue, you're just starting a match which is typically what you guys do when you're wrong...pull out the "I've been riding since you were 2" card...well you can put it back in your pocket.

I don't want the government regulating even more of my life than they already do. What this issue comes down to is that the Government can not govern by what it assumes you will do. Just because a motorcycle has 150hp+ does not mean that it will be used in high speed and reckless situations. You can not prove that. You will never be able to prove that. The fact that a motorcycle can go 180mph will never mean that the rider WILL go 180mph. And you can't prove otherwise. Regulation of this sort rarely ever produces positive results. The problem lies in the mentality of the rider...not his machine. If an idiot climbs aboard a 250 and decides he's going to haul in an area where there is traffic he will just as likely die than he would on a literbike. You can look at the statistics of higher CC motorcycle crashes all day if you like, but what they do not tell you is the amount of higher CC motorcycles as compared to those that are lower in the total population. That number is paramount in proving your position...and you're just assuming that the field is homogenized...and it's not (more literbikes, the more they will show up in results...simple statistics). Your faulty logic is being fed by your ego and know-it-all attitude.

Oh, one more thing...from the (I know) outdated Hurt report....


1. Approximately three-fourths of these motorcycle accidents involved collision with another vehicle, which was most usually a passenger automobile.

6. In the multiple vehicle accidents, the driver of the other vehicle violated the motorcycle right-of-way and caused the accident in two-thirds of those accidents.

9. Intersections are the most likely place for the motorcycle accident, with the other vehicle violating the motorcycle right-of-way, and often violating traffic controls.

12. The view of the motorcycle or the other vehicle involved in the accident is limited by glare or obstructed by other vehicles in almost half of the multiple vehicle accidents.

13. Conspicuity of the motorcycle is a critical factor in the multiple vehicle accidents, and accident involvement is significantly reduced by the use of motorcycle headlamps (on in daylight) and the wearing of high visibility yellow, orange or bright red jackets. (Note: the statistics which have just been released here in Australia - August 1996, DO NOT SHOW that "Lights on" legislation has worked!)

15. The median pre-crash speed was 29.8 mph, and the median crash speed was 21.5 mph, and the one-in-a-thousand crash speed is approximately 86 mph.


I could go on and on...none of those small sample sets have anything to do with engine displacement. The major problem with the Hurt report and almost every single report that has come out since then is that it does not study the distribution of motorcycle engine sizes or "trained" and "untrained" riders. So what you say about motorcycle engine size, barring my opinion completely, is not based in fact in the least bit. Sample size and engine size distribution among the entire population of the sample and the greater population is vital in proving your misguided point. And that data simply does not exist.

Have a good day, I'rm retiring from this argument.
Not claiming to be the know it all, keep in mind what you are spewing is your opinion, which you are entitled to, just keep in mind that opinions are like aholes, everyone has one, and they all stink.
The crash statistics you used were low speed, I will agree that the displacement had no bearing, however I was referring to crashes resulting in maiming or fatality.
You claim just because you have allot of HP, you won't use it. Hypothetically it sounds good, but it's far from the truth. Even I use the extra hp from time to time, sometimes sound, sometimes not so sound.
However I am a seasoned rider, I know from experience how to deal with situations, error in judgment of myself as well as others around me. Amongst other things that pop up while riding a powerful sportbike. The same just cannot be said for newbs. This fact results in catastrophic accidents plain and simple. Now if you take some HP out of that equation, you cut down on those accidents. That is not an opinion it's a plain and simple fact, just like gravity it's really not a hard concept to grasp.
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Old 05-05-2010, 12:09 PM   #77
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Old 05-05-2010, 12:16 PM   #78
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DrAwkwArD View Post
Sorry, have to correct you. If you read the hurt report, those crash statistics are for ALL of the crashes he sampled (around 900). There was no discrimination placed on crash speeds. That is the median speed of the crashes he studied and it debunks everything that you and some of the others have been saying.

I know the Hurt report is way outdated...but it gives you an idea of why I am arguing against what you guys are saying...not just because of my opinion.

http://www.magpie.com/nycmoto/hurt.html

EDIT: Don't get me wrong, I have big bones to pick with the almighty Hurt report...the fact that it only sampled California makes it statistically questionable. But it still helps in proving you guys wrong
Dude that study is from 1976, a little outdated? Sport bikes of today would soooooo change those statistics.
Here since you are so fond of the Hurt study, straight from the study:

32. Large displacement motorcycles are underrepresented in accidents but they are associated with higher injury severity when involved in accidents.
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Old 05-05-2010, 12:27 PM   #79
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Old 05-05-2010, 12:53 PM   #80
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Not to get into this argument, but I have to say, that in my experinence, nearly all of the accidents I personaly have responded to, were cruiser style bikes, at low speed. Also, nearly all of them have been 3rd party fault, that is, someone hit them, cut them off or in some way caused the accident. For instance, at the last Lone star rally, every single accident i went to was a cruiser.(about 8 that day for me. there were lots more, something like 20+, but of the ones i saw...) Some of the accidents resulted in serious injury, but none due to high displacement or high speed.

Just an observation.
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