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Old 05-04-2010, 11:20 AM   #41
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interesting that so many people want a tiered system (government intervention and mangement) yet on this same boards i see more anti-potus sentiments tha the whole nation of iran has.

i personally like the freedom to buy a thousand horsepower bike if i have the money.

people arre going to get themselves killed whether they on a ZX14 or a mini.

i think in the last month i have seen 2 news stories of drunk guys wrecking and dying on a 4 wheeler. maybe it was one and i had dejavu.

when i got my bike, i gave my baby brother a condition to ride my bike; go to MSF. that he did.

a week after, he decided to walk my pitbull on my bike(my pitbull is 60lbs and does not like to be walked, he wants to be the walker) that did not go well.

yesterday, we were riding together, i was going a very slow maybe 5 under the pace on 610. i let my brother get in front of me and he starts pulling away. i start to flash my light at him for him to slow down, this goes on for aboout 1.5 miles but he does not see me flashing (scared the life out of me that he would be on a bike for that distanc and not look in the mirrors once) so i haul and go carch up with him and slowed him down (so for 2 full miles of riding, he did not consult his mirrors). by the end of last night, he had dropped my bike(looking at about 1k worth of parts to be replaced). before the ride, i forced him to were my girl's helmet and my jacket because he was talking about riding with just glasses. i am so happy i did because i need a new jacket now. my brother is 20.

i'm telling this story jut to tell you Racer X that the MSF does not do jack but allow you get licensed. (which somewhat supports the tiered licensing concept)

maturity and a level head would save a young rider's life. knowing that you area prey in a potential deathtrap with lots of predators in cars is the first step to being safe. and it takes more than MSF to realize that.

and like i asked earlier, what was the point of this thread? stating some derived statistics really means nothing.
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Old 05-04-2010, 11:24 AM   #42
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I COMPLETELY agree that you can die on a EX250 just as quick as a R1.....

But (there is always a )

Things don't tend to get out of hand as quick.

It's a double edged sword and I know it but I do favor tiered licensing.
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Old 05-04-2010, 11:29 AM   #43
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Here's a funny fact... and it's not made up... my buddy Dave has 5 or 6 bikes (I lost count) in his garage... and 3 of them are big bore, high horsepower custom choppers that he rides all the time.... he's never been in a wreck on one of those... but he gets on his 125cc 2stroke dirt bike or his 450cc "thumper" and he's broken like 7 bones in 2 years. Not sure that this helps anyone choose a side... but it's food for thought.

J

PS... it's funny as to see a guy in a leg cast (he painted it black with spray paint) ride a chopper to work... LOL
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Old 05-04-2010, 11:58 AM   #44
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You can't really compare dirt bikes to street bikes like that. I've wrecked my old dirt bike more times than I can remember, but none of my street bikes have ever been down.
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Old 05-04-2010, 01:25 PM   #45
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Old 05-04-2010, 01:39 PM   #46
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DrAwkwArD View Post
Can you die on a 250 as easily as you can on a 1000? Absolutely.

My very first bike was a 1203cc....but its top speed was only about 130mph.

The size of the motor does not inherently matter when it comes down to dying on your motorcycle. Your state of mind is the ONLY thing that causes you to twist the throttle. That's it. A Hayabusa will only go 200mph if you want it to. A tiered system based on motorcycle sizes is akin to having gun free zones. The legislation has never been proven EVER to work. The same would go for engine sizes. This type of "solution" is what old people (elected officials) do when they don't have a clue what they're talking about.
I'm not worried about you killing yourself. I'm worried about you killing me.

The size of the motor does matter because usually the reason why people buy bigger displacement [bikes] is for the acceleration/speed that comes with more power. With a tiered system you would be 'proving' that you're responsible and experienced enough to handle a 250cc, for example, for x time before moving up. More often than not the experience level is not there and in some cases neither is the responsibility.

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Originally Posted by viper3ez View Post
interesting that so many people want a tiered system (government intervention and mangement)
The government makes the traffic laws and the laws are supposed to be for safe and efficient operation of vehicles. It's not about 'freedom'.

Last edited by MadseasoN; 05-04-2010 at 01:41 PM.
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Old 05-04-2010, 01:43 PM   #47
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MadseasoN View Post
I'm not worried about you killing yourself. I'm worried about you killing me.

The size of the motor does matter because usually the reason why people buy bigger displacement [bikes] is for the acceleration/speed that comes with more power. With a tiered system you would be 'proving' that you're responsible and experienced enough to handle a 250cc, for example, for x time before moving up. More often than not the experience level is not there and in some cases neither is the responsibility.



The government makes the traffic laws and the laws are supposed to be for safe and efficient operation of vehicles. It's not about 'freedom'.
The chance of a motorcyclist killing any one but himself is slim.
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Old 05-04-2010, 01:52 PM   #48
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mabye they should do like they do with mustangs. there a v6 then there is a GT, shelby, saleen and so on.

They should just make a busa with a 250cc motor put in it so they can still look cool. That would probably solve the problem
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Old 05-04-2010, 01:53 PM   #49
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Quote:
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The chance of a motorcyclist killing any one but himself is slim.
The chance of the motorcyclists in question causing an accident is high. That is the point of my post. If a new rider wants to buy a 1000cc bike and ride over his limits then that's okay by me, just do it on a closed course not on the street. Accidents aren't safe and they surely aren't efficient for anyone on the road.
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Old 05-04-2010, 01:55 PM   #50
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maaaaaaaaan all I want is more 250 and 400 cc choices! you non tiered types are keepin the small bikes out of the states! :(

now I gotta move to japan to get the R4 or R2.5 :P
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Old 05-04-2010, 02:13 PM   #51
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MadseasoN View Post
I'm not worried about you killing yourself. I'm worried about you killing me.

The size of the motor does matter because usually the reason why people buy bigger displacement [bikes] is for the acceleration/speed that comes with more power. With a tiered system you would be 'proving' that you're responsible and experienced enough to handle a 250cc, for example, for x time before moving up. More often than not the experience level is not there and in some cases neither is the responsibility.



The government makes the traffic laws and the laws are supposed to be for safe and efficient operation of vehicles. It's not about 'freedom'.
ok, let me get this straight, the government deciding what you can buy and what you can ride is not about freedom freedom?

how does this affect private business that make and sell bikes?

so if i'm into dragracing, i'll have to wait until i'm 25 before i can get a big bike, intil then i'm stuck doing my dragracing on a 250cc bike. that has nothing to do with freedom?

and while we are on the issue, why dont we make it so you cant drive any car over 99hp until you are 25?

that must make for one very free society.

give me a breeak
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Old 05-04-2010, 02:36 PM   #52
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Quote:
Originally Posted by viper3ez View Post
ok, let me get this straight, the government deciding what you can buy and what you can ride is not about freedom freedom?

how does this affect private business that make and sell bikes?

so if i'm into dragracing, i'll have to wait until i'm 25 before i can get a big bike, intil then i'm stuck doing my dragracing on a 250cc bike. that has nothing to do with freedom?
and while we are on the issue, why dont we make it so you cant drive any car over 99hp until you are 25?

that must make for one very free society.

give me a breeak
well, you don't need a DL for private racing. individual org.'s have their own regulations.
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Old 05-04-2010, 02:42 PM   #53
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Old 05-04-2010, 02:50 PM   #54
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Quote:
Originally Posted by viper3ez View Post
ok, let me get this straight, the government deciding what you can buy and what you can ride is not about freedom freedom?

how does this affect private business that make and sell bikes?

so if i'm into dragracing, i'll have to wait until i'm 25 before i can get a big bike, intil then i'm stuck doing my dragracing on a 250cc bike. that has nothing to do with freedom?

and while we are on the issue, why dont we make it so you cant drive any car over 99hp until you are 25?

that must make for one very free society.

give me a breeak
No, you'd be able to buy and ride whatever you want. Riding it on the public street is a different story.

I don't think the accident rate of people driving 100HP cars is high enough to cause concern. If vehicles of comparable performance (500+ HP for cars) were readily available for $5,000 then you'd see people crashing them all over the place. This isn't the case though.
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Old 05-04-2010, 03:00 PM   #55
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Quote:
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It's thinking like this that graduates to, "Well let's take away everyone's guns so that they won't use them to kill each other." It's idiotic and doesn't solve any problems.

And I'll say it one last time, the size of the motor has NO bearing on whether or not you will die in a crash. The motor does not make you twist the throttle...you can't argue against that. Assuming someone buys a Hayabusa, R1 or a 100cui cruiser because they want to go 200mph is ridiculous. Assuming ANYONE'S intentions on a purchase and then limiting everyone because of that ASSumption is just asanine.

I'll take my chances of a motorcyclist causing a fatal accident for another party over a distracted driver any day of the week. You can't be serious man.
I don't think you understand. I never said anything about engine size relating to deaths.

And again, I didn't say anything about purchasing or intentions. We're talking about operation on public roads. The State ALREADY licenses those individuals who are deemed compentent [and I'm being VERY loose when I use these words] to operate a motor vehicle on public roads. They ALREADY tell you which vehicles you can drive (Class C, B, A, M, etc), for the same reasons a tiered M endorsement makes sense. Think about WHY they can regulate these things and get back to me.

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Old 05-04-2010, 03:39 PM   #56
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Old 05-04-2010, 04:17 PM   #57
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.ITS served hot if you want luke warm put cold water or ice in it yourself to your likings.. the rest of the world don't need labels because dumbazzes are stupid ..

150F (66C) 2 seconds
140F (60C) 6 seconds
125F (52C) 2 minutes
120F (49C) 10 minutes

Water boils at approx 100c, once my 'pot' of coffee is done 'dripping'
and I pour into a cup/glass it isn't any 100c. ((Coffee served at home is typically 135 to 140f degrees.))

The infamous Mc Donalds Coffee incident? 82.22-87.77c, 'home brew'? 57.22-60c.

Which do you want in your lap genius?



Quote:
And I'll say it one last time, the size of the motor has NO bearing on whether or not you will die in a crash. The motor does not make you twist the throttle...you can't argue against that. Assuming someone buys a Hayabusa, R1 or a 100cui cruiser because they want to go 200mph is ridiculous. Assuming ANYONE'S intentions on a purchase and then limiting everyone because of that ASSumption is just asanine.


Do you promise you won't repeat that piece of drivel again? We really don't need you to prove that your parroting something instead of thinking. The size/power does have a correlation to just how 'fast' something can go wrong and it's relative 'impact'.

I could give a rats to 'just' fatalities... problem is some dipshit plowing into a car/truck/rig at 80mph, while not killing or even maybe injuring anyonse else, still leaves a LOT of problems issues for others involved. The vehicle 'hit' alone is likely to need quite a bit of repair, this doesn't take into acount emotional impact, stress etc involved for the innocent party.
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Old 05-04-2010, 04:29 PM   #58
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Old 05-04-2010, 04:39 PM   #59
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Old 05-04-2010, 04:42 PM   #60
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The mc donalds thing was kind of stupid but on the same note the temp of the coffee was WAY above normal temps for coffee. The blame lands on both parties here.

As far as the Tiered licensing I'm leaning toward it but not completely swayed. There are many people out there that can handle learning on a bigger displacement bike. My first bike was my Z1000 that was 954cc and put out 122bhp. Not a starter bike by the numbers but I had the control to take it easy and learn. There are a lot of people that do not have that control and this would help save them some issues.

For the people that say the size of displacement doesn't matter your just dumb. A bigger heavier more powerful bike takes more skill to control then a smaller bike. Its also much easier for that big displacement to get away from you and if you don't have the skills from experience that ends up bad.
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