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Old 11-05-2010, 11:56 AM   #861
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rachy Rach View Post
This Ordinance does not have any reference to Sec 30-8
Rach you have to read the entire code. First you quoted it as 30-3 Noisy vehicles generally. That section is actually 30-4.

Now lets look at 30-1 where it says in the 12th paragraph "Sound nuisance shall mean any sound which either exceeds the maximum permitted sound levels specified in section 30-2, or for purposes of sections 30-4 and 30-6, other wise unreasonably disturbs, injures or endangers the comfort, response, health, peace or safety of others within the limits of hte city.

Section 30-1 says that sound levels specified in section 30-2 apply to 30-4 which relates to Noisy vehicles generally.

Now 30-2 states that the sound level for Nonresidential property is Sixty-eight (68) dB (A) during either daytime or nighttime hours.
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Old 11-05-2010, 12:01 PM   #862
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Sec. 30-3. - Noisy vehicles generally.

The use of any motor vehicle so out of repair, so loaded, or so noisy that it creates any loud and unreasonable grating, grinding, rattling, or any other loud and unreasonable sound is hereby prohibited and declared to be unlawful.
Not to mention his vehicle isn't out of repair, isn't overly loaded, isn't grinding, grating, or rattling, and I don't really quite see how engine/exhaust noise is unreasonable. He's not running open pipes, has a muffler in place (his model didn't require a cat), and therefore should be considered reasonable. Not sure how anyone can argue otherwise.
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Old 11-05-2010, 12:02 PM   #863
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.

Now 30-2 states that the sound level for Nonresidential property is Sixty-eight (68) dB (A) during either daytime or nighttime hours.
well, my dodge diesel wit a straight pipe purdy much shoots that all to ,lol
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Old 11-05-2010, 12:07 PM   #864
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well, my dodge diesel wit a straight pipe purdy much shoots that all to ,lol
That is one of my arguments. A Diesel Truck stock off the car lot is louder than my pipes. So why isn't he stopping and citing EVERY VEHICLE for loud engines?
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Old 11-05-2010, 12:09 PM   #865
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That is one of my arguments. A Diesel Truck stock off the car lot is louder than my pipes. So why isn't he stopping and citing EVERY VEHICLE for loud engines?
Diesel trucks off the lot are actually very quiet, have you driven one off the lot within the last 10 years?

Have you ever went fishing? Have you ever caught ALL the fish? You can't be mad he doesn't stop every single noisey vehicle. Have you even hung around him when he's patrolling to see who he does/does not stop? I've asked you similar questions in previous posts to which you totally ignored and rambled on about loud pipes saving lives and how you see things differently b/c you're a former LEO.
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nothing goes unmoderated....
"And so, this tiny metal deathtrap becomes known as the ultimate form of freedom. Like a steampunk cyborg, man and machine fuse to make a symbol of what you can become when style and speed matter more than safety and efficiency. Is it any wonder that some people just get mad every time they see a motorcycle go by? Because it challenges everything they have, while proving to them that they donít have enough."
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Old 11-05-2010, 12:13 PM   #866
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Diesel trucks off the lot are actually very quiet, have you driven one off the lot within the last 10 years?

Have you ever went fishing? Have you ever caught ALL the fish? You can't be mad he doesn't stop every single noisey vehicle. Have you even hung around him when he's patrolling to see who he does/does not stop? I've asked you similar questions in previous posts to which you totally ignored and rambled on about loud pipes saving lives and how you see things differently b/c you're a former LEO.
I have not ignored your questions, I just don't like arguing with the wall
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Old 11-05-2010, 12:14 PM   #867
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I have not ignored your questions, I just don't like arguing with the wall
bwahahaha. he's got you figured out DVL,lol.
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Old 11-05-2010, 12:15 PM   #868
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I have not ignored your questions, I just don't like arguing with the wall
How is it arguing with a wall when 90% of the time I'm strictly asking you to support your argument? You can't pull facts out of your then get angry when someone asks you to explain them. Blind hate.

I asked you how you determined he was profiling and you wrote me a research paper on how you're a former cop and have a different viewpoint than us mere citizens, totally avoiding the question, as you have now done multiple times.
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nothing goes unmoderated....
"And so, this tiny metal deathtrap becomes known as the ultimate form of freedom. Like a steampunk cyborg, man and machine fuse to make a symbol of what you can become when style and speed matter more than safety and efficiency. Is it any wonder that some people just get mad every time they see a motorcycle go by? Because it challenges everything they have, while proving to them that they donít have enough."
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Old 11-05-2010, 12:24 PM   #869
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Chips, say that the sky is up and the ground is down so Dvlracer argues otherwise.
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tejano? Rape me
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Old 11-05-2010, 12:25 PM   #870
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Blah blah blah, screw logical debate, just bash the opinion that doesn't agree with yours.
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nothing goes unmoderated....
"And so, this tiny metal deathtrap becomes known as the ultimate form of freedom. Like a steampunk cyborg, man and machine fuse to make a symbol of what you can become when style and speed matter more than safety and efficiency. Is it any wonder that some people just get mad every time they see a motorcycle go by? Because it challenges everything they have, while proving to them that they donít have enough."
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Old 11-05-2010, 12:27 PM   #871
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How is it arguing with a wall when 90% of the time I'm strictly asking you to support your argument? You can't pull facts out of your then get angry when someone asks you to explain them. Blind hate.

I asked you how you determined he was profiling and you wrote me a research paper on how you're a former cop and have a different viewpoint than us mere citizens, totally avoiding the question, as you have now done multiple times.
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Old 11-05-2010, 12:40 PM   #872
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profiling noun
Definition of PROFILING
: the act or process of extrapolating information about a person based on known traits or tendencies <consumer profiling>; specifically : the act of suspecting or targeting a person on the basis of observed characteristics or behavior <racial profiling>
First Known Use of PROFILING
1980
Britannica.com
Learn more about "profiling" and related topics at Britannica.com
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Old 11-05-2010, 12:44 PM   #873
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Well, one thing is pretty clear. This cop is way out of control. He is on some kind of personal crusade or some . If he had to sue his own department when they told him to stop.

He might have won, but I understand why the dept wouldnt want to take it any further when they easily could have. Last thing they need is the publicity of a dept appealing a ruling .

This issue needs to be taken as far up in the courts as needed because the court system is based on evidence not opinion. And this cop is using his personal opinion to interpret vague laws.

Changes need to be made like clarifying the law and making it more specific. I am no lawyer, mind you but I do know that when they enforce the noise laws with clubs, they have to use a decibel reading to show the establishments breaking the law.

How can you sit there and tell me that something like this can be left to an opinion of someone to arbitrarily enforce it based on opinion. That just is not right.

When building code sets limits to building height, do the inspectors just show up and eyeball it and say "it seems too tall, make it shorter."

This cop found a loophole and took advantage of it to push his one man crusade. This needs to be clarified.

Whats next, getting pulled over cause cops thought you were going too fast. Why not just get rid of radar guns and have the police stand out there and just give their opinion on vehicle speeds. Or why even stop at that, why not have the emission inspections dont without equipment, just guesstimate if a car should pass or not.

I am no big fan of this cop only because when I am accused of breaking a law, as a citizen of this great country, I want to see the proof that I did something wrong not someones opinion of it.
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Old 11-05-2010, 12:55 PM   #874
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.

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Well I have been out of it the last several days with an abcessed tooth. I just caught up on the thread and just wanted to say that I am with honorsdaddy on this one. I plan to fight this ticket for the good of everyone. There is a letter of the law and the spirit of the law and Officer Holtsclaw is not following either when it comes to citing motorcycles for loud pipes. I have given thousands of citations myself when I was a motorcycle traffic officer. I know when an Officer is on a Crusaide and when he is just doing his job. This officer is using the color of authority to PROFILE and target a certain group of people.I for one don't plan to bow down and accept a citation for something I didn't do wrong.
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Who is he profiling?
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Originally Posted by CHiPs View Post
He is clearly profiling Motorcycle riders and he throws in a few cars too. I spoke with him and he was getting very upset after he issued the citation, yelling that people like me were making normal motorcycle riders like him look bad.
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Clearly, huh? You don't think it might just seem that way because we are on a motorcycle forum? I mean, do you really expect all the ricers he tickets are going to find Motohouston and talk about it? Do you have any kind of statistic of how many tickets he gives to bikes vs. cars to support your claims or is this just something you know in your heart? I've told a lot of people that they hurt the image of the motorcycle community, that doesn't mean I'm now "profiling motorcycle riders."
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First off your not in a position to PROFILE. There is a different standard placed on people in a position of power than the average citizen. A Police Officer can not let his PERSONAL FEELINGS be his motivation when targeting and citing people. This is called "Harrassment under Color of Authority". He has a badge that allows him to stop anyone for any reasonable reason and you have to comply weather you want to or not. He may be right, he may be wrong but while he is dealing with you he has all the power and authority. You my friend do not have that power. Abuse of Power is very common. Just because he also cites cars and answers radio calls does not mean he is not profiling motorcycle riders.

When a City Official such as a Police Officer gains a reputation like he has there is a reason. How many other Officers do you hear of? You are right not every cited comes on this forum. There is a similar conversation on the Corvette forum, but they even mention that he is targeting motorcycles most of all. I was a Police Officer for 20 years, I know the inner workings and the Rules of Conduct. The average citizen "you" do not have access to the inner politics of the situation. You only see from a citizens point of view. Does this make sense to you?
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nothing goes unmoderated....
"And so, this tiny metal deathtrap becomes known as the ultimate form of freedom. Like a steampunk cyborg, man and machine fuse to make a symbol of what you can become when style and speed matter more than safety and efficiency. Is it any wonder that some people just get mad every time they see a motorcycle go by? Because it challenges everything they have, while proving to them that they donít have enough."
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Old 11-05-2010, 12:55 PM   #875
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Sure, so now explain how he is profiling motorcycle riders, and please don't use all your "20 years of police knowledge" to tell me you read it on a corvette forum.
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The following is a quote from Officer Holtsclaw on an earlier post to this thread;


I have been riding motorcycles off and on since I was 12 years of age...almost 40 years of motorcycle riding...some professionally, mostly for travel and commuting...sold my 30th motorcycle approximately a year ago...have stopped riding because of individuals, some of which are represented on this blog, are an embarrassment and are ruining the sport for those who have respect and care for the rights of others. I know that this is a foreign concept to the hedonist and relativist on this blog but your loud pipes don't save lives...if you are afraid to ride then park the thing..if you are truly concerned about your safety..put a DOT approved helmet on your head, a leather jacket on your back, gloves on your hands, boots on your feet.

Yes, I do believe in Jesus Christ..and yes, I have placed my faith in Him as my Lord and Savior. My relationship with my Creator is the most precious thing in life.

Yes, I do issue citations for loud motor vehicles, make arrests for driving while intoxicated, arrest for family violence, arrest for taking property that does not belong to you, arrest for harming and assaulting others, arrest for warrants...if these things define me as a "psycho cop" then so be it...in my 31st year as a Houston Cop...the greatest job in the world...if I am run off for diligence and attention to duty then so be it...but if you ride through my area with loud obnoxious pipes or loud music I will give you the attention you are clamoring for...your citation may be dismissed by a liberal judge or jury but my conscience is clear... I will do my very best to protect the rights of the citizens in my beat...you can take that to the bank LIZ.

HPD Officer R.D. Holtsclaw, Houston Police Department.
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Sooo.....ummmm....that's really great and all, but how does it in any way relate to him "profiling motorcyclists?"
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Originally Posted by DvlRacer View Post
Maybe I'm the stupid one? I dunno, I just haven't seen anything definitive that leads me to believe he is strictly targeting motorcycles. Sure, I think he gives out tons of tickets to motorcycle riders but I have a feeling he does the same thing to cars w/ aftermarket exhausts. I hate people making claims/accusations for which they have no evidence to support, "just because I said so" doesn't hold up very well in court. Another thing to consider, this guy has permission to write noise violations, and that is what he focuses on doing, other cops focus on DWI's specifically, speeding specifically, etc. I do believe he stops mainly motorcycles, but I also bet that 10 motorcycles pass him with aftermarket pipes for every car that passes with aftermarket pipes. I think he has a vengeance for anyone with loud pipes, not specifically bikers.
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Officer Holtsclaw also told me that Loud Pipes do not save lives and that the sound is only to the rear of the motorycle because thats the direction the pipes point. I would only agree that loud pipes are not the miracle thing that by itself saves motorcyclist, however you have to understand the Doppler Effect as it relates to sound waves. Below it is explained with a train, but you could easily replace that reference with a Motorcycle and have the same effect. Loud pipes do not replace "Smart safe riding practices" but they do assist just as a Police Siren, Ambulance Siren and Fire Truck Siren and horn do.

Alot of people argue that the cars your driving around can't hear the pipes. Your missing a different angle. It's not as much the cars around you that your trying to get their driver's attention. It's the drivers/Pedestrians ahead sitting still, waiting to make that left turn that will hear you. If you want the entire report on the Doppler Effect go to http://www.answers.com/topic/doppler-effect

Real-Life Applications

Sound Compression and the Doppler Effect

As stated in the introduction, one can observe the Doppler effect in a number of settings. If a person is standing by the side of a road and a car approaches at a significant rate of speed, the frequency of the sound waves grows until the car passes the observer, then the frequency suddenly drops. But Doppler, of course, never heard the sound of an automobile, or the siren of a motorized ambulance or fire truck.

In his day, the horse-drawn carriage still constituted the principal means of transportation for short distances, and such vehicles did not attain the speeds necessary for the Doppler effect to become noticeable. Only one mode of transportation in the mid-nineteenth century made it possible to observe and record the effect: a steam-powered locomotive. Therefore, let us consider the Doppler effect as Doppler himself did—in terms of a train passing through a s tation.

The Sound of a Train Whistle

When a train is sitting in a station prior to leaving, it blows its whistle, but listeners standing nearby notice nothing unusual. There is no difference—except perhaps in degree of intensity—between the sound heard by someone on the platform, and the sound of the train as heard by someone standing behind the caboose. This is because a stationary train is at the center of the sound waves it produces, which radiate in concentric circles (like a bulls-eye) around it.

As the train begins to move, however, it is no longer at the center of the sound waves emanating from it. Instead, the circle of waves is moving forward, along with the train itself, and, thus, the locomotive compresses waves toward the front. If someone is standing further ahead along the track, that person hears the compressed sound waves. Due to their compression, these have a much higher frequency than the waves produced by a stationary train.

At the same time, someone standing behind the train—a listener on the platform at the station, watching the train recede into the distance—hears the sound waves that emanate from behind the train. It is the same train making the same sound, but because the train has compressed the sound waves in front of it, the waves behind it are spread out, producing a sound of much lower frequency. Thus, the sound of the train, as perceived by two different listeners, varies with frame of reference.
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Diesel trucks off the lot are actually very quiet, have you driven one off the lot within the last 10 years?

Have you ever went fishing? Have you ever caught ALL the fish? You can't be mad he doesn't stop every single noisey vehicle. Have you even hung around him when he's patrolling to see who he does/does not stop? I've asked you similar questions in previous posts to which you totally ignored and rambled on about loud pipes saving lives and how you see things differently b/c you're a former LEO.
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I have not ignored your questions, I just don't like arguing with the wall
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Originally Posted by DvlRacer View Post
How is it arguing with a wall when 90% of the time I'm strictly asking you to support your argument? You can't pull facts out of your then get angry when someone asks you to explain them. Blind hate.

I asked you how you determined he was profiling and you wrote me a research paper on how you're a former cop and have a different viewpoint than us mere citizens, totally avoiding the question, as you have now done multiple times.
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That is one of my arguments. A Diesel Truck stock off the car lot is louder than my pipes. So why isn't he stopping and citing EVERY VEHICLE for loud engines?
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profiling noun
Definition of PROFILING
: the act or process of extrapolating information about a person based on known traits or tendencies <consumer profiling>; specifically : the act of suspecting or targeting a person on the basis of observed characteristics or behavior <racial profiling>
First Known Use of PROFILING
1980
Britannica.com
Learn more about "profiling" and related topics at Britannica.com
Not once in everything I quoted did you actually focus on the question I asked. Instead you quoted irrelevant things he said, you read, or you found online, talked about your police career, and provided a definition of profiling.
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nothing goes unmoderated....
"And so, this tiny metal deathtrap becomes known as the ultimate form of freedom. Like a steampunk cyborg, man and machine fuse to make a symbol of what you can become when style and speed matter more than safety and efficiency. Is it any wonder that some people just get mad every time they see a motorcycle go by? Because it challenges everything they have, while proving to them that they donít have enough."
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Old 11-05-2010, 01:00 PM   #876
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Old 11-05-2010, 01:47 PM   #877
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Add witty comments to my last post.
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nothing goes unmoderated....
"And so, this tiny metal deathtrap becomes known as the ultimate form of freedom. Like a steampunk cyborg, man and machine fuse to make a symbol of what you can become when style and speed matter more than safety and efficiency. Is it any wonder that some people just get mad every time they see a motorcycle go by? Because it challenges everything they have, while proving to them that they donít have enough."
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Old 11-05-2010, 02:08 PM   #878
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So since the public copy of the ordinance is numbered incorrectly, how bout fighting to change that so everyone has a better understanding of what is legal and what is not instead of coming on a forum to about a citation received. All that is happening is everyone posting here (including me) is giving this guy credit for getting under the motorcycle community's skin. How bout we stop giving him notoriety and just argue in court. Take your understanding of the ordinances to a jury and see what they say.
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Old 11-05-2010, 02:14 PM   #879
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I do plan to fight this in Court not on this forum. I can't give all my ammunition on this forum because I know Holtsclaw reads every post. There is a movement to change the current code so it is more fair and clear. There is going to be a Police Escorted Ride from the County Line Bar on November 16th to Houston City Hall, where a petition will be delivered.
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Old 11-05-2010, 02:22 PM   #880
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dvl just shut up already if u dont have anything good to post about related to the topic and helping honors and chip then get the out.
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