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Old 04-30-2010, 03:47 PM   #41
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Old 04-30-2010, 03:48 PM   #42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 10mm View Post



If that is true, how in the world do people get run over on the train tracks? Loud pipes don't save lives.

I've commuted with stock pipes for years and never once had an issue because I either stay in front or behind, never travel along side of cars and anticipate the stupid that is *going* to happen.

Skills, people....skills are what saves.......
lost me there captain
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Old 04-30-2010, 03:49 PM   #43
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lost me there captain
Train horns are loud
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Old 04-30-2010, 03:54 PM   #44
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TomballD View Post
Train horns are loud

ok, makes sense. a whole bunch of distracted drivers switch lanes onto trains driving beside them on the road.

how could i have missed that.

i'm not going down this route again

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Old 04-30-2010, 04:05 PM   #45
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Originally Posted by RACER X View Post
here's the learning part, don't ride side by side to cars.......... get in ft or stay behind.
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Old 04-30-2010, 04:18 PM   #46
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Quote:
Originally Posted by less_than_coop View Post
Just from a google, and off a blog so there no telling how vaild this is:
Maybe Mitzi is right...

http://journeltheconstituent.blogspo...d48268486c7e5d

Message date Wednesday, April 14, 2010

Those of you familiar with my ongoing battle with a particular supervisor regarding the validity of Houston's City Ordnance 30-4 "Noisy Vehicles Generally" will be pleased to hear that City Legal has returned a verdict of "enforceable. I was subsequently called into my Captains office and told that I was permitted to resume enforcing the noise ordinance as it relates to loud exhaust on motorcycles and automobiles. The earlier order to stop enforcement due to perceived subjectivity issues has been overturned. Those members who have an abiding faith in our Lord Jesus Christ pray that I will enforce the current noise ordinance with wisdom and discernment. Thanks to those who took the time to write the letters and make the phone calls.

Sincerely,

Rick Holtsclaw />
Houston Police Department

Westside Division
So for those of you with loud pipes and an inability to control lane position to keep themselves away from the side of cars....

Tell this officer when you get pulled over that Jesus told you to get a loud pipe to save your life....
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Old 05-01-2010, 09:51 AM   #47
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Quote:
Originally Posted by viper3ez View Post
if you ride that fancy bike of yours you would know that sometimes you have no choice but to be beside cars considering how many are on the road.

with your millennium of riding experience, its a wonder you dont ever ride beside cars.

is your bike like a flying bike or something?

quit dicking with your picture. like i tried to explain to you before, learning to ride involves actually riding a bike which inadvertently puts you beside cars.

how hard is it for you to comprehend?
suffice to say i have ALOT more miles on bikes then you do.

commuting/track/cross country

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Exactly!

I am WWFII and I approve of this message.
lol, side w/ the noob.......good stance. is his bike even actually on the streets?
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Old 05-01-2010, 06:18 PM   #48
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WWFII View Post
I have an idea.

Take a car. Blind-fold a passenger in the vehicle, and provide the passenger with a "fake" steering-wheel. Drive the passenger around town. Tell the passenger that you are wanting to make a turn to the left or right -- to change lanes. Tell them when they think it is safe to turn, to rotate the "fake" steering-wheel. For testing, do a few trial runs with no vehicle beside them. Then, test it while a Harley is next to them. Please report your findings.

I cannot believe that people on this forum think that audible cues do absolutely nothing?!

I've noticed riders while driving a car because of their loud exhaust.

Basically I am like, "Oh sh*t. Where is he?"
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Old 05-01-2010, 07:36 PM   #49
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Urban Ninja View Post
I've noticed riders while driving a car because of their loud exhaust.

Basically I am like, "Oh sh*t. Where is he?"


(not picking on you)

I was the same way until I set up my side mirrors correctly, and got one of those double wide convex rearview mirrors that clip onto the stock one.

Blind spots are no longer "blind" if people set up thier mirrors properly. Most dont care, and have them adjusted for "comfort" than safety.
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Old 05-04-2010, 05:22 PM   #50
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the correct City of Houston Ordinance is 30-3 and does not require a sound meter.
Can you link to the 'correct' ordinance?

http://www.nonoise.org/lawlib/cities/houston.htm

Quote:
Sec. 30-2. Maximum permissible sound levels.

No person shall conduct, permit or allow any activity or sound source to produce a sound that is discernible beyond the property lines of the property on which the sound is being received that when measured as provided in section 30-8 of this Code exceeds the applicable dB(A) level listed below for the property on which the sound is received:

(1) Residential property:

a. Sixty-five (65) dB(A) during daytime hours.

b. Fifty-eight (58) dB(A) during nighttime hours.

(2) Nonresidential property:

Sixty-eight (68) dB(A) during either daytime or nighttime hours.

The dB(A) levels set forth in this section apply to the property where the sound is being received. Any sound that when measured at the property where the sound is being received exceeds the dB(A) levels set forth in this section is a violation of this chapter. Evidence that an activity or sound source produces a sound that exceeds the dB(A) levels specified in this section, when measured at the site where the sound is being produced, if available, shall be prima facie evidence of a sound nuisance which unreasonably disturbs, injures or endangers the comfort, repose, health, peace or safety of others within the limits of the city in violation of this chapter.

(Ord. No. 93-77, 2, 1-20-93)

Sec. 30-3. General prohibition.

(a) It shall be unlawful for any person to make, assist in making, permit, continue, cause to be made or continued or permit the continuance of any sound which either exceeds the maximum permitted sound levels specified in section 30-2 or for purposes of sections 30-4 and 30-6, otherwise unreasonably disturbs, injures or endangers the comfort, repose, health, peace or safety of others within the limits of the city.

(b) The acts enumerated in the following sections of this chapter, among others, are declared to be sound nuisances which are unreasonably loud, irritating, disturbing, or excessive sounds in violation of this chapter, but such enumeration shall not be deemed to be exclusive.

(Ord. No. 93-77, 2, 1-20-93)

Sec. 30-4. Noisy vehicles generally.

The use of any automobile, motorcycle, or other vehicle so out of repair, so loaded, or in such a manner so as to create loud and unreasonable grating, grinding, rattling or any other loud and unreasonable sound is hereby prohibited and declared to be unlawful.

(Ord. No. 93-77, 2, 1-20-93)

Sec. 30-5. Amplified sound from motor vehicle.

The production or reproduction of sound from amplification equipment contained in or mounted on a motor vehicle that produces sound in excess of the limits set forth in section 30-2, when measured at or near fifteen (15) feet from the nearest external point on the vehicle, is hereby prohibited and declared to be unlawful as a sound nuisance in violation of this chapter, except as permitted by section 30-9.

(Ord. No. 93-77, 2, 1-20-93)
..and since it references 30-8

Quote:
Sec. 30-8. Method of sound measurement.

Whenever portions of this chapter prohibit sound over a certain decibel limit, measurement of said sound shall be made with a Type 1 or Type 2 calibrated sound level meter utilizing the A-weighting scale and the slow meter response as specified by the American National Standards Institute (A.N.S.I. S1.4-1984/85A). [Image]Noise[Image] levels shall be measured in decibels and A-weighted. The unit of measurement shall be designated as dB(A). Meters shall be maintained in calibration and good working order. Calibrations shall be employed which meet A.N.S.I. S1.40-1984 prior to and immediately after every sampling of sound. Measurements recorded shall be taken so as to provide a proper representation of the sound being measured. The microphone of said meter shall be positioned so as not to create any unnatural enhancement or diminution of the measured sound. A windscreen for said microphone shall be used. Except as provided in sections 30-5 and 30-7(i), measurements shall be taken at or near the nearest property line of the property where the sound is being received.
So, I'd like to see the ordinance which states that a sound meter is not needed/neccessary.
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Old 05-04-2010, 05:31 PM   #51
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Note to self: Make pastor / church / bible references when pulled over by said officer.
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Old 05-04-2010, 05:37 PM   #52
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 20g86a View Post
Hello friend, First of all boys and girls, my name is Holtsclaw...the correct City of Houston Ordinance is 30-3 and does not require a sound meter. Indian Mike received two citations from me last year, not eight, and he paid at least one of those in my presence as opposed to trying the case with a jury of his Houstonian peers.

I was not removed from the area of Westheimer and Hwy 6 but left the area because the supervisor I was working for at that time advocates and participates in the same obnoxious behavior that you boys and girls participate in, that is, operating loud and obnoxious motor vehicles that violate the Constitutional rights of others to a peaceful environment, both in their homes and in their automobiles.

I have been riding motorcycles off and on since I was 12 years of age...almost 40 years of motorcycle riding...some professionally, mostly for travel and commuting...sold my 30th motorcycle approximately a year ago...have stopped riding because of individuals, some of which are represented on this blog, are an embarrassment and are ruining the sport for those who have respect and care for the rights of others. I know that this is a foreign concept to the hedonist and relativist on this blog but your loud pipes don't save lives...if you are afraid to ride then park the thing..if you are truly concerned about your safety..put a DOT approved helmet on your head, a leather jacket on your back, gloves on your hands, boots on your feet.

Yes, I do believe in Jesus Christ..and yes, I have placed my faith in Him as my Lord and Savior. My relationship with my Creator is the most precious thing in life.

Yes, I do issue citations for loud motor vehicles, make arrests for driving while intoxicated, arrest for family violence, arrest for taking property that does not belong to you, arrest for harming and assaulting others, arrest for warrants...if these things define me as a "psycho cop" then so be it...in my 31st year as a Houston Cop...the greatest job in the world...if I am run off for diligence and attention to duty then so be it...but if you ride through my area with loud obnoxious pipes or loud music I will give you the attention you are clamoring for...your citation may be dismissed by a liberal judge or jury but my conscience is clear... I will do my very best to protect the rights of the citizens in my beat...you can take that to the bank LIZ.

HPD Officer R.D. Holtsclaw, Houston Police Department.
Welcome to the boards! I can tell you that we are not all hedonist or relativists. This board is an accurate cross section of all types of riders and all views are welcome whether embraced by all or not. If the citizens of your precinct agree with your work ( I have no doubt they do) well then you are doing an outstanding job. Keep on trucking...

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Old 05-04-2010, 05:48 PM   #53
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Originally Posted by 20g86a View Post
Sounds as if you have a hang up regarding my faith in Christ...does this, in some form or fashion, insult you or make you uneasy Mr. P? Perhaps there is an inner stirring that you are uncomfortable with..perhaps you would like to discuss that...
I believe the comment was made in humor, as in should he be pulled over by on Officer Holstclaw, he will be found praying for forgiveness for speeding to avoid getting his nuckles rapped by the nun when he get's to mass. :-)
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Old 05-04-2010, 05:52 PM   #54
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This is an incorrect copy of the ordinances...I too thought that "Noisy Vehicles Generally" was 30-4 but after having checked with the courts I found the correct number is 30-3 and "Noisy Vehicles Generally" does NOT require a sound meter....a reasonable person standard is required...read the Texas Appeals Case on this matter. Aguilar V State of Texas regarding the Texas Transportation Code 547.604....Muffler Required. The subjectivity issue has been properly addressed and it has been affirmed that a peace officer does have the right to stop a vehicle for loud exhaust. Rick
... reading it, I cannot find an ordinance which states it's not needed, the conclusion from the court case and related mentioned in it..is that they believe some 'sounds' beyond the acceptable limit can reasonable be determined w/o a meter. It would be worth noting, in each of these cases..the defendent was attempting to claim they should not have been stopped because of the noise. This is, I believe, different from a situation in which someone was stopped and charged/ticketed for said noise violation w/o use of a meter. ...after all, think.. it would tehcnicaly be problematic to accurately check said noise violation accurately when involving moving vehicles and would require a stop in order to check/test.
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Old 05-04-2010, 05:53 PM   #55
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Well according to that law my bike exceeds the Db limit from the factory. I'm pretty sure that it's designed to be 85db.
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Old 05-04-2010, 06:15 PM   #56
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I'm going with Ulrich on this one. he provided the ordinance. if you claim it is incorrect, please, by all means post the correct one.

my biggest pet peeve laws is when law enforcement if given a gray area to apply their personal taste or judgement, people just get screwed then.

i have no problem paying for a speeding ticket but when you pull me over for a loud bike or car because i have an aftermarket muffler that is louder than stock and then go o to ticket me without measuring the noise level, then you just gave me a court date without any reasonable evidence.

i'm also curious, when you measure this noise level with your given gift of hearing instead of a calibrated meter, do you do it while the vehicle is idling or while it is being revved. because i might pull away from a light at reasonably high RPMs and subsequently more noise but at cruising speeds/RPM that sound tends to drop down.
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Old 05-04-2010, 07:06 PM   #57
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I believe the "Psycho" in the title is concerning the fact that your primary focus is noise-abatement; while other more "severe" crimes are being committed in your area of operation.

The fact that you are not required to "meter" the offending noise as evidence, and there is no burden of proof required on your part for the citation is also bewildering to me.

Your comment about wearing a helmet, jacket, gloves, etc., is not what I would care to rely on as a "first-line" of defense for cars not paying attention. I would rather the "visual" and "audible" methods be the first-line of defense -- not my gear.

Perhaps, you would rather spend your time writing citations for sound because it sounds like a quick money generator for the city, and it requires no evidence on your behalf. This would also force other police officers to handle the more "severe" crimes -- placing their lives in more jeopardy.

I respect what most police officers do, but I believe your focus is mis-guided.
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Old 05-04-2010, 07:23 PM   #58
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Also, if sound is as irrelevant as you suggest, why is it that EMERGENCY vehicles have loud, obnoxious sirens?
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Old 05-04-2010, 07:23 PM   #59
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WWFII View Post
I believe the "Psycho" in the title is concerning the fact that your primary focus is noise-abatement; while other more "severe" crimes are being committed in your area of operation.

The fact that you are not required to "meter" the offending noise as evidence, and there is no burden of proof required on your part for the citation is also bewildering to me.

Your comment about wearing a helmet, jacket, gloves, etc., is not what I would care to rely on as a "first-line" of defense for cars not paying attention. I would rather the "visual" and "audible" methods be the first-line of defense -- not my gear.

Perhaps, you would rather spend your time writing citations for sound because it sounds like a quick money generator for the city, and it requires no evidence on your behalf. This would also force other police officers to handle the more "severe" crimes -- placing their lives in more jeopardy.

I respect what most police officers do, but I believe your focus is mis-guided.
speaking of which, i have witnessed 2 HPD officers drive by accident scenes this week with no other police or emergency personell present without even asking as little as if everyone was ok.

first one was an accident on %59N around hilcroft. a mustang was hit and it was turn sideways as inat right angles to the direction of traffic. there was nobody there yet, traffic juststarted to back up and one of the earlier cars there was a HPD vehoicle just cruising, no other emergency and he just drove past.

second was last night, my brother dropped my bike, on an exit ramp, there were about 3 ncars between him and a HPD patrol car, the first driver stopped and asked if we needed help and i told him we were good, he pulled over to the shoulder to get out of the way of the other cars, the next 2 cars came through and so did the HPD officer. went through slowlysaw me picking the bike up, did not even ask if everything was ok. just drove away.

apparently they are not required to stop. pretty crazy.

but here we have a cop devoting his life to stopping loud exhausts.

i have no respect whatsoever for HPD. their job is revenue generation. they are like door to door salesmen. if its not a potential check for the city, its not their problem.

Mr Officer, loud exhaust indeed does not save lives. they just improve your chances of being noticed by other drivers on the road.

and when a driver does not know your are there and chit goes downhill, all the gear in the world might not save you sometimes.
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Old 05-04-2010, 08:10 PM   #60
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 20g86a View Post
Well thank you too, and yes, I am real...sorry you feel that way about the men and women who would risk it all to help you in a time of need...anyway, have a nice day sir.

i beg to differ, you dont risk t to give an exhaust ticket and from your claims, thats your priority.

i'm yet to meet the HPD gangmember...imean officer that is willing to "risk it all" outside of giving a 300$ ticket for speeding(which i was definitely guilty of).

you are a salesperson for the business ran by the city of houston. i am the customer by speeding or riding with a loud exhaust. dont for a second justify the BS by claiming to give it all.

just because your job description says you give it all does not mean you do.
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