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Old 04-23-2010, 11:20 AM   #141
SeenTooMuch
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If this had happened to me in my truck, the officer would have been shot with my legally carried 357.I have nothing against most LEOs, but no badge no lights and no siren, i'd be in fear for my life, and therefore jusified.
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Old 04-23-2010, 11:29 AM   #142
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you'll probably get shot before you can pull your gun out.
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Old 04-23-2010, 12:20 PM   #143
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its a risk, but in my truck(not on my bike) my firearm is readily acsessible and not visible to someone approaching on foot. I would have it in my hand before he got beside me and i would not have to lean or reach to get it. on my bike would be a different story and i would have no choice but to comply.

Again, this is assuming that the person is not a uniformed and/or identifiable officer.
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Old 04-23-2010, 03:00 PM   #144
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ducoop View Post
I was wondering the same thing. Plain clothes and jumping out of an unmarked car with no visible badge and the gun was already drawn. As far as I'm concerned if that happened to me and I had a chance I would have drawn my own weapon and fired.
i'm with you. How does the rider know he's a cop. It could have been an attempted bike jacking. I would have loved to see that cop shot up...my .02.
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Old 04-23-2010, 09:57 PM   #145
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May sound stupid
but the very first thought that went through my head when I saw the gun was dude hit the throttle and ram this idot.

Yeah I would have probly got shot.
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Old 04-27-2010, 10:03 AM   #146
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as promised..some 'quotes' from the forum I posted it on...

Quote:
You mean this stop? Doesnt seem that there is enough information for anyone here to comment intellegently on it, huh? How are we to know if the trooper felt like his life was in danger? With such a limited video and the other one doesnt even have audio it kind of seems fishy. Also, the OP made it seem like police officers shouldnt have arrest powers when not on duty. So you dont think they should have arrest powers off-duty but should still not be exempt from having unlawful video taken of them as a normal citizen would? That seems kind of like a double standard, huh? The extended video clearly shows the driver endangering dozens of lives with his reckless and retarded driving.
Quote:
Well I'm looking at the video and at no point in time did the troop ever point the gun at the guy.

There is also a marked crown vic behind the bike when he stops. He did not get "pulled over" but was detained after he stopped at a traffic light.

In the longer version between 0:30 and 0:44 he's going pretty fast and poppin wheelies. Don't need a radar gun to tell me that. At that speed you can bet your bottom dollar that he's gunning it if he can pop wheelies doing 70 mph. Wreckless driving imo, especially since he started doing it besides a bus.

Personally if you started video taping people at work and posting on the internet I'd like to see their reactions. Don't think it be much different but hey...
Quote:
Here's what I think...

I think that was one of the most blatantly anti-police biased articles I've ever seen posted here.

I think this was a set-up from the beginning. I think the rider went out with the preplanned intention of either instigating a police pursuit so he could post it on YouTube, or in the hopes of filming a traffic stop incident from which he could win the lawsuit lottery.

I think he's done it before, but this time, traffic wasn't didn't cooperate in his scheme and he got trapped at the end of the off-ramp. I think the State Troopers are familiar with that bike, if not the rider, from prior incidents.

I also think that if the marked car would've tried to stop the rider on the main lanes of the highway, a pursuit would have ensued... which they would have terminated after a few miles, traveling at triple digits of speed and providing the rider with the pursuit footage he wanted. Instead, the troopers hung back and let traffic box him in.

I think the troopers found out that he'd posted footage of those prior incidents on Youtube, and got a search warrant for his computer, with the intention of using the evidence found to ask for additional charges on the prior incidents.

I think the "unsigned" search warrant that the author is up in arms about was actually a telephonic warrant that was faxed to the judge for signature. The cops gave him the copy that hadn't been signed yet. The original signed copy will be in the case file when it goes to court.

I think this is less about 'filming officers during arrests' than it is about knucklehead filming himself while he thumbs his nose at the cops then posting it on the Internet to show his sport-biker buddies how cool and daring he is.

Lastly, I think the rider has thoroughly screwed himself. He's not nearly as smart as he thinks he is, nor are we as stupid as he thinks. Oops.

Quote:
Yeah of course you didn't hear sirens you idiot, you were doing 100+, you were out running the sound of the sirens that were BEHIND you...what a doucher! I am glad this guy admitted that he was speeding hopefully the courts are not as stupid as this guy and all but the wire tapping charges stick!
Quote:
It isn't 6 seconds, the gun didn't appear until 4 seconds into the recording and at the same time the officer starts to speak, so the orders are roughly 2 seconds before the officer says "State Police". Which is realistically about as good as you are gonna get in a dynamic situation where the officer could be run over by someone that may or may not willing to just that to get away.

Re the facts surrounding the reason for issuing the warrant we only have the rider and the media to rely on for the facts. One wants to muddy the waters the other wants you to buy the sold in the comercials they have online or shown during airtime.

As for the charges, doesn't the prosecutor file the charges?
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Old 04-27-2010, 10:09 AM   #147
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more...

Quote:
First, both you and the author have some serious misconceptions about what police officer can and can not do with regards to firearms. The phrase "pulling a gun" on someone is meaningless. The statement that police officers are only "allowed" to draw their guns if they think their life is in danger is absurd. News flash: If I think my life is danger, not only can I draw my gun, I can shoot you with it. Therefore, the criteria for merely 'drawing' is by definition less than "life in danger".

I often draw my weapon and hold down next to my leg when approaching suspicious or what I perceive to be dangerous persons or vehicles, for the simple fact that 'action beats reaction'. If I'm confronted with an armed suspect who suddenly points a gun at me, I will not have time to draw my own weapon before the suspect shoots. Most of the drivers in those situations never realized I did so.

According to our Use of Force guidelines, simply drawing a weapon from the holster is not, repeat NOT, a Use of Force which would require inclusion in any subsequent report. Pointing a firearm at a suspect IS a Use of Force. At no time during the video did the officer point his weapon at the rider, hence, no Use of Force, and no need to include it in the report.

Without reading the actual affidavit for the search warrant, or the criminal complaint itself, there is no way to know what the police were trying to accomplish. Apparently, their reasoning was good enough for the judge who issued the warrant, since he did sign it. If it were as defective as the author alleges, why didn't the rider's attorney raise that issue?

In any case, at the beginning of your post, you asked for thoughts an opinions. That's what I gave you... my thoughts and opinions. You are free to like them or not.

Strangely, I get the strong impression that you're sympathetic to the rider and largely in agreement with the author of that opinion piece. That being the case, you get nothing more from me.
Quote:
And YMMV (greatly) - I can point a gun at you as much as I want and it wouldn't be a use of force by my guidelines/definition.

And since, despite your efforts to front impartiality, you are clearly in bed with the rider... ::CLICK::
Quote:
Well since there was a marked unit behind him trying to pull him over, I don't find it strange that when he was finally stopped, he had a gun pointed at him.

Quote:
Police Officers do not tend to make pointless stops when they are in plain clothes unless they feel life is in danger. A lot of recent cases have caused a lot of cops to re-think getting involved in their off time. Most of the time Police Officers should be the best witness to a crime rather than get involved even if they are carrying their off duty gun. Most do not carry a RADIO or have means to asking for help nor do they have all the tools of the trade with them such as OC, or ASP.

The officer had his weapon out for a very small amount of time and did not point it at the suspect. Pulling your weapon is a level of force on the force continuum and you do not have to use it. Using your weapon is lethal force, pulling it is not. Uses of force basic concepts are taught in the military, and the police academy.
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Old 04-27-2010, 10:10 AM   #148
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....and the original post they respond to?


Quote:
Motorcycle Speeder Charged With Felony For Posting Traffic Stop
I'm curious into the general thoughts in regards to this incident, and feelings in regards
to officers being 'filmed' by non-leo's.[
Quote:
After spending 26 hours in the Baltimore County Jail, Anthony Graber still doesn’t understand what he did wrong.

Sure, the 24-year-old man admits to speeding on his motorcycle, but does that merit having a plainclothes cop pull a gun on him?

Does that merit six state troopers raiding his parents’ home and seizing four computers at the crack of dawn?

Does that merit getting charged with a felony and threatened with five years in prison?

Of course it doesn’t

This is nothing but an obscene case of police intimidation. A Constitutional violation against a man who has served six years in the Air National Guard and who has never been arrested before.

A knee-jerk reaction from the Maryland State Police after Graber posted the video of the cop pulling a gun on him on Youtube (video is below).

That cop’s name is Joseph David Uhler, in case you were wondering. He has no business wearing a badge.

So how come he’s not being punished?

Well, we already know that answer. He’s above the law. They are above the law. The Maryland State Police Department, that is.

Why else would a judge sign a search warrant, allowing them to raid Graber’s parents home at 6:45 a.m. on a weekday, detaining his entire family for 90 minutes, forbidding his mother from going to work and younger sister from going to school while they rummaged through the family’s personal belongings?

And that judge’s name?

That’s a secret.

“There is no signature from the judge on the paperwork,” Graber said in an exclusive Photography is Not a Crime interview Thursday night, just hours after he was released from jail.

“They told me they don’t want you to know who the judge is because of privacy.

Is this America? Where cops are allowed to violate your Fourth Amendment rights – not to mention your First Amendment right to film them – on the approval of some secretive judge?

Well maybe not all judges agree.

“The judge who released me looked at the paperwork and said she didn’t see where I violated the wiretapping law.”

Ah yes, the wiretapping charge. That old standby that cops use when you happen to videotape them in public while they are on duty when they have absolutely no expectation of privacy.

Sure, the First Amendment supposedly allows us to photograph police in public. Numerous court rulings have determined that.

But now cops have turned to irrelevant wire-tapping charges to crack down against those who video them in public.

Those laws are designed to protect people whose voices are recorded in telephone calls. You know, when you actually have an expectation of privacy.

Fortunately, most judges end up throwing these charges out of court when the cops don’t have an expectation of privacy.

The case against Graber began on March 5 when he was speeding on his 2008 Honda CBR 1000RR motorcycle on Interstate 95. He had a video camera strapped to his helmet and was filming the ride.

He sped past Uhler’s unmarked car, who claimed he was popping a wheelie while traveling 100 mph.

And Uhler was only “visually estimating” his speed. He did not have a radar gun, which usually means it wouldn’t stand up in court.

Graber also admits to speeding past a marked car. However, he never heard any sirens behind him and even at one point in the video where Graber looks back, the only car behind him is Uhler’s unmarked car with no lights.

That was when Graber was already exiting the interstate. When he came to a complete stop behind the other cars at the exit, Uhler cut him off and hopped out of his car with a gun drawn, never flashing a badge and not identifying himself as an officer until several seconds later.

Uhler never mentioned that he pulled out his gun in his report.

But he did mention that he spotted “a strange looking object on the operator’s helmet that was later realized to be a video camera.”


The camera Graber was wearing when he was pulled overAnd he did mention that he cited Graber a single citation for traveling 80 mph in a 65 mph zone.

So what’s the problem?

Well, Graber decided to post the video on Youtube, which made Uhler look like a thug.

In fact, if you look at the video, you’ll notice Uhler glance at the marked unit behind Graber and moved his gun behind him, as if trying to hide it from the other officer, before tucking it back into his pocket.

After all, an officer is only supposed to pull out his gun if he believes his life is in danger. Surely, that doesn’t happen with every traffic stop. Does it?

Ten days later, Uhler discovered that Graber posted the video online. Two videos. A longer one without audio and a shorter one with audio.

That prompted Uhler to issue an arrest warrant against Graber, citing that “Graber did not inform Tfc. Uhler that he was recording him by video or audio, thus violating criminal law 10-402(b).”

He also tacked on the charges of “reckless driving” and “negligent driving” to the arrest warrant.

And then six cops raided his parent’s home where Graber is living early one morning.

“They spent 90 minutes there,” he said.

“My mom had to go to work and they wouldn’t let her. My sister had to go to school and they wouldn’t let her.

“I just had gall bladder surgery and had bandages on my stomach.”

In fact, after a phone call to the commissioner, that was the only reason they didn’t arrest him on the spot. They told him he had to turn himself in when he got better, which he did.

“I just wanted to do the right thing,” he said.

When he showed up to the jail, they set his bond at $15,000, which is a little extravagant considering there is a maximum $10,000 fine for a wiretapping conviction.

He spent 26 hours in jail before he was released upon his own recognizance. The judge who released him took one look at the report and said that it didn’t appear he violated the wiretapping law.

“She said, ‘I have no idea why you’re charged with this’,” he said.

In fact, Maryland requires there to be an expectation of privacy in order to make that charge valid, according to the National Conference of State Legislatures.

State courts interpreted laws to protect communications only when parties have a reasonable expectation of privacy

The incident has left Graber with a serious distrust of police.

“I’m now afraid of the police. Afraid of what they can do to me. I’ve never been arrested in my life before this,” he said.

He is now making arrangements to sell his motorcycle because he doesn’t feel comfortable riding it anymore.

And he is waiting for his preliminary trial to see if prosecutors will decide to pursue this case. [
] (Note: I don't neccessarly agree with the tone/comments... there are some points that seem to be of potential concern) Google "Motorcycle Speeder Charged With Felony For Posting Traffic Stop" for the video
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Old 04-27-2010, 12:20 PM   #149
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ok, having read more of this, i feal it nesisary to clarify what I said. I have nothing against LEOs. My earlier statements were what i would do, assuming i hadnt just been ingauging in illegal activitys, and there were no uniformed and identafiable LEOs present.
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Old 04-27-2010, 09:05 PM   #150
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Old 04-27-2010, 09:41 PM   #151
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This exchange should be..interesting...

cop
Quote:
Well since there was a marked unit behind him trying to pull him over, I don't find it strange that when he was finally stopped, he had a gun pointed at him.
me
Quote:
There's a marked unit behind him, I don't see lights or hear a siren... so how do we know the marked unit was trying to pull him over.
(..btw do any of ya'll see light/hear a siren in either one?)

cop
Quote:
Yes I'm sure he was just eating his lunch on the roadside and the bike happened to pull over right in front of him.
me
Quote:
Yea, I guess someone edited out JUST the lights and siren, there's no possible chance the marked unit was coming up w/o forward lights/siren being on?
(There's no chance, in his urge to properly secure his donut, he forgot to turn on all the party favors?)
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Old 04-27-2010, 10:42 PM   #152
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I would of pulled my gun and shot him!
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Old 04-28-2010, 01:42 AM   #153
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the police! Americans need to go to the poles and elect represenatives who will cut cop salaries/jobs and repeal laws that give them so much power. A free America with more lax firearm laws is a safer more crime free America. There was a reason the colt 45 was called the peace maker. You didnt have to worry about lockin your house up in those days. America isnt free anymore and it is our fault the voter.
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Old 04-28-2010, 02:56 AM   #154
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I have been stuck on this thread all night, one youtube vid lead to another and now it is almost 3 in the morning. Least I should waste all that time and not fan the flames of opinion: While I hate criminals, I hate cops more.

People hate motorcyclists because while they are stuck in their bumper to bumper cages we, with our members erect, are doing what they all wish they had the sacagawea to do.

This third watch jackass had phallus envy, who besides himself was the cyclist endangering?

The only thing the motorcycle endangers beside the rider is the ego of the spectator.
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Old 04-28-2010, 07:42 AM   #155
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Counterculture View Post

This third watch jackass had phallus envy, who besides himself was the cyclist endangering?

The only thing the motorcycle endangers beside the rider is the ego of the spectator.
YEAH! it's not like a 450lb motorcycle doing 90 mph is going to damage/kill anybody.

especially when he's in control of the whole sit. on 1 wheel.

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Old 04-28-2010, 09:46 AM   #156
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the police! Americans need to go to the poles and elect represenatives who will cut cop salaries/jobs and repeal laws that give them so much power.
WTF? 'Salary' and even the 'laws' aren't the problem... the problem would be more akin, to 'cops' that display similar ignorance & attitudeto displayed in your post and the one following it.


Quote:
The only thing the motorcycle endangers beside the rider is the ego of the spectator.
and this comment is just as bad if not worse than the previous one that quoted.
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Old 04-28-2010, 12:11 PM   #157
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RACER X View Post
YEAH! it's not like a 450lb motorcycle doing 90 mph is going to damage/kill anybody.

especially when he's in control of the whole sit. on 1 wheel.

Car20motorcycle20wreck


Well as common as perpendicular collisions between geo metros and cycles are, yes I admit there is potential for collateral damage.
I acquiesce; just wanted to draw the correlation between this riders style and the plain clothes cop's emotional decision to get some undocumented overtime.
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Old 04-28-2010, 03:13 PM   #158
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Counterculture View Post
People hate motorcyclists because while they are stuck in their bumper to bumper cages we, with our members erect, are doing what they all wish they had the sacagawea to do.
I think people's dislike for motocyclists stems more from them riding like jackasses, not being able to manuever in slow traffic.
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Old 04-28-2010, 06:11 PM   #159
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Counterculture View Post


Well as common as perpendicular collisions between geo metros and cycles are, yes I admit there is potential for collateral damage.
I acquiesce; just wanted to draw the correlation between this riders style and the plain clothes cop's emotional decision to get some undocumented overtime.
If I still had pics, I could show you where a bike cracked the rear case on a Toyota forerunner(sp?). It also lifted the rear end off the ground 2+ feet. The rider...that's the RIDER not the bike, knocked over two motorcycles and ended up 50+ feet past the front end of the forerunner.
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Old 04-28-2010, 06:21 PM   #160
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ive never even been pulled over on the bike.
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