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Old 04-18-2010, 01:52 PM   #1
Johnny77423
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DIY on board A/F meter and tuning

I'm going to build myself an on board (hard mounted) air to fuel ratio meter ... the reason being, I want to be able to custom tune my bike with the PCIII as I make further mods (I'm going to do a full exhaust and cams this Christmas) and also as my needs change (like when I go to East Tennessee in the Summer... the air is a little leaner up there in the mountains)...

My question is thus... anyone have any luck with these when tuning your bike with your Power Commander? I figure I can take the bike for a ride and monitor the rich and lean spots and then make changes to the fuel map when I "pit"... then take it for a ride again...

It looks like the whole project is going to cost about $30-$40 (if I get a used wide band O2 sensor, which should be fine). My only concern is blowing a hole in the mid-pipe when I weld the bung (that word always makes me giggle) onto the exhaust... but I can get a whole used exhaust for my SV on ebay for $50 these days... so no I might get one and do the mod and then install the "new" pipe instead of risking taking my bike down for a week because I made a boo boo.

Anybody have any actual experience with this on a bike? I've done it on my turbo car projects, but never on a bike... ideas?

Does anyone know where the factory SV O2 sensor mounts on the 2007+ bikes???

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Old 04-18-2010, 06:14 PM   #2
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Well... so far I've been told to buy another dynojet box plus the screen for it... which really defeats the purpose of all of this to begin with... I don't want to spend a load of money to tune my bike... that's the main point of this... I am going to do this mod whether anyone thinks it's a good idea or not... I'm trying to see if anyone esle had the to do something for themselves rather than just hand it off to a "tuner" or buy another box... People have been building bikes for decades now and tuning them themselves... what int he happened to the American spirit of ingenuity !?!?!?

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Old 04-18-2010, 07:58 PM   #3
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Go for it.
Word to the wise:
Trying to look at a guage and ride a bike at the same time isn't always such a great idea.
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Old 04-18-2010, 10:34 PM   #4
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not only that, but the resolution of the map is so high that your gonna have a really hard time nailing down peaks and dips in fueling without a way to log it against RPM, ESPECIALLY since the stock tachs arn't even that acurate to begin with.
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Old 04-18-2010, 10:39 PM   #5
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I not sure if pre ABS sv"s have 02 sensors.. I think the injection is calibrated off the TPS

where's Patrick?
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Old 04-18-2010, 10:41 PM   #6
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I think there are too many cells in the program to keep up. You not gonna know exactly where to make the changes. There are tools for this. IMO your being cheap and trying to do something your better off leaving alone. Buy the auto tuners, get a dyno tune, or find another way to entertain yourself. Im not meaning to sound like a . I know what you wanna do. There are too many variables to contend with. There is a reason they have dynos and auto tuners. PC has one as well as Bazzaz.
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Old 04-18-2010, 11:18 PM   #7
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I was going to mention Bazzaz if you really want to run a closed loop A/M piggy back system.

If you're using a sweep gauge, the accuracy may be a bit off; using a strong RAM DVOM on record while riding may be better however the run would be so short, you'd have to record the rpms-to-signal and try to adjust accordingly. Really good idea, however since the work has already been done and proven by other A/M companies, it may be cheaper, easier, more accurate to use their systems.

Otherwise, do your airbox, exhaust mods and find a tuner. Make plans w them, run a baseline on the dyno then come back w the mods. One good tune for the bike will work wonders.

To show how much adjustability there is(pcm3), here is one of three charts for the busa:

bmc, 4-2-1 cut muzzy, front air dam intake, large flap mod, ignition modifier, TRE(GiPro2), pair valve system removed/blocked:

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Old 04-19-2010, 03:42 AM   #8
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thanks

thanks for all of the opinions and advice

But no one has answered my 2 actual questions...

If anyone cares to see the finished product, it should be on my bike before I leave for Tennessee this summer...

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Old 04-19-2010, 03:45 AM   #9
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While I was looking for a used exhaust on ebay, I realized I can get a long block for this thing for $500 with less than 10k miles. Sweet!!! I can leave the stock engine in the bike and build my "Big Bore" over the Summer instead of waiting until Winter... YEAH!!!

Now I just need to go fill the tanks on my welder so I can build and engine stand.
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Old 04-19-2010, 03:58 AM   #10
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Re: DIY on board A/F meter and tuning

Quote:
Originally Posted by Scorpio
Go for it.
Word to the wise:
Trying to look at a guage and ride a bike at the same time isn't always such a great idea.
If he has a gro pro and mounts the AF guage close to the tach. Just video them.
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Old 04-19-2010, 04:10 AM   #11
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I am going with a Innovate logger and pipe sniffer so I can use it on various bikes. For the initial investment it's well worth it to me. And I can use it on my Monte SS project as well.

I had a A/F meter on my turbo camaro, but found I needed to log anyhow to get it even closed to tuned. Glancing at the gauge was good for general idea, but not for tuning.
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Old 04-19-2010, 04:24 AM   #12
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Are you looking for a way to data log? or simply watch your afr's while riding.
Because I'm pretty sure it wouldn't be too hard to mount up say a eugo to your bike, as long as it has power a sensor it should read.
Just doesn't have something hooked up to it to data log.
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Old 04-19-2010, 05:07 AM   #13
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He stated he wants "to monitor A/F while riding, then make changes to the map when he stops"

I guess cruising down the highway you might be able to do a little, but trying to watch a guage, tach, throttle opening, and make notes while rolling along a Tenn backroad will be challenging at the least!
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Old 04-19-2010, 08:34 AM   #14
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I plan on having it done BEFORE I leave for Tennessee... and to be honest... I'm usually bored while I ride anyway... If I don't have my ipod with me, I start getting antsy...

I think some of you may also be under the illusion that i expect to get a perfect fuel map made from this little project... I do not expect it to be perfect... and I really only need to monitor it in the places where the bike feels "sluggish"... I have a pretty good idea going into this project what to expect and how to fix it... I need to cut some fuel at zero throttle under 2k rpms and add some in the 3k-4k rpm range at various amounts of throttle. Yes, this is going to be a "process... but if I'm carrying my mini-lap-top with me, it won't be much fuss at all... just make a tweak here and there to improve throttle response... Most SV owners who have the kind of mods I have don't bother with a power commander, because the bike is so low-tech that it's not really worth the investment unless you plan on doing more mods down the road ... especially a full exhaust and cams... which I'll add after I do the big bore kit and a port and polish on the heads. at that point I'll pay for a 'pro" to tune my bike because it'll need it... for now, it really doesn't... just a few tweaks to get the mid-range back in line.
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Old 04-23-2010, 10:13 AM   #15
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keep this updated if you follow through with it, i want to see you do it so you can show up all the haters.
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Old 04-23-2010, 10:22 AM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Johnny77423 View Post
I plan on having it done BEFORE I leave for Tennessee... and to be honest... I'm usually bored while I ride anyway... If I don't have my ipod with me, I start getting antsy...

I think some of you may also be under the illusion that i expect to get a perfect fuel map made from this little project... I do not expect it to be perfect... and I really only need to monitor it in the places where the bike feels "sluggish"... I have a pretty good idea going into this project what to expect and how to fix it... I need to cut some fuel at zero throttle under 2k rpms and add some in the 3k-4k rpm range at various amounts of throttle. Yes, this is going to be a "process... but if I'm carrying my mini-lap-top with me, it won't be much fuss at all... just make a tweak here and there to improve throttle response... Most SV owners who have the kind of mods I have don't bother with a power commander, because the bike is so low-tech that it's not really worth the investment unless you plan on doing more mods down the road ... especially a full exhaust and cams... which I'll add after I do the big bore kit and a port and polish on the heads. at that point I'll pay for a 'pro" to tune my bike because it'll need it... for now, it really doesn't... just a few tweaks to get the mid-range back in line.

There is something called, do it right do it once.
And taking preventative measures, it would be much more cost effective to go with say dynojets set up, then ghetto rigging your own thing.

As it is do you already have a pcIII? if not please do explain to me what you would be using to tune once you have your 'custom' AFR metering and datalogging set up?

I would very much like to help, as it may seem like I'm not, but this all seems a bit un-cost effective, as well as not very cost effective.
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Old 04-23-2010, 10:48 AM   #17
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Old 04-24-2010, 06:23 PM   #18
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works good

Quote:
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keep this updated if you follow through with it, i want to see you do it so you can show up all the haters.
Right on... I have done this kind of set up on a lot of my old turbo cars and it always worked fine... Of course in a car, you can leave the laptop hooked up in the seat next to you.

I got some good feedback from a dude in New Zealand on the SV forums who has done something similar... but he used a store bought wide band set up... It was like $150... the point of me doing it this way is that it's basically the exact same setup for about $40... compared to dynojet's set up that costs $300 or so.

It seems that a lot of people like to throw money at their problems instead of elbow grease and ingenuity... of course, that's why I'm a S.C.L. honors, grad student in engineering and going to do nuclear research at the ORNL facility this summer...

I am going to post a "how to" eventually on the SV board ... I don't see a point in posting it here ... I just have my hands tied up right now with the work on my diesel project and exams and finals coming up (8 tests in weeks and 3 projects due... WEEEEE).
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Old 04-24-2010, 06:25 PM   #19
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Quote:
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to your two questions...

i have not used my AF gauge with a power commander...only carbed bikes.

i have had a bung hole welded to my pipe with great success. (add that to your signature!)
Nice!!!
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Old 04-24-2010, 06:37 PM   #20
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Quote:
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There is something called, do it right do it once.
And taking preventative measures, it would be much more cost effective to go with say dynojets set up, then ghetto rigging your own thing.

As it is do you already have a pcIII? if not please do explain to me what you would be using to tune once you have your 'custom' AFR metering and datalogging set up?

I would very much like to help, as it may seem like I'm not, but this all seems a bit un-cost effective, as well as not very cost effective.
The AF meter is going to point out AF ratios via a visual LED feedback... I can see the amount of throttle via the marks I made with a felt tip pen (high tech huh???) in 10% gradient steps (verified with the laptop).vs the RPM's I'm turning.

SV's are not as particular as 4 cylinder bikes when you play with the intake and exhaust... nor are they anywhere near as responsive to the changes made... this is a very low tech bike. Actually, unless you install cams. you don't need the power commander... M4 actually states that it's a waste of money if all you do is a slip on and a drop in filter (which is what my system consists of). My bike idles a little rich and has a small lean spot where it looses power around 3500 to 4500 rpm's and then suddenly comes to life like I shot NOS into it. So it's not a terribly difficult thing to fix. A little off the bottom and a little more in the middle and BAM!!! To be honest, I could use the 3 button interface on the front of the PCIII to fix it... and then just monitor it with the AF meter I'm building... I don't even have to use the USB function except that it's there, so why not play with it a little. I am also comparing my custom map with all of the ones they have for my bike which are all basically the same +/- about 5% ... which really isn't a huge deal since I'm going to tune it a little rich anyway... my target AF ratio is going to be 13.7 to 14.3 ... Which will be the center green LED on my meter I've built. I just need to find the time to hook it up and go for a spin.
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