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Old 04-14-2010, 10:51 AM   #501
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MacMan View Post
The DA will always prosecute the highest charge. Felony evading with someone who has priors or is on probation is enough to make him spend some time behind bars.
Unauthorized use of a motor vehicle is nothing compared to felony evading. He cant be blamed for the death of the other rider but it wont look good in the sentancing portion of this case.

Either way it sucks that so many lives were affected.
He might be held liable civilly
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Old 04-14-2010, 11:00 AM   #502
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He might be held liable civilly
That would be up to Dustin's family to file suit
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Old 04-14-2010, 11:03 AM   #503
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Old 04-14-2010, 11:05 AM   #504
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PYROBUG51 View Post
How is this about me Im going home everynight..WHOS I could care less...Im just making my statement And I have pulled over on the group rides...I WILL not Jepordize my job for running....
But your right....ILL agree with you and ONLY YOU! Just so you wont tell me anything else again....

Here I found you something to chew on!

http://www.wisegeek.com/what-is-manslaughter.htm


Involuntary manslaughter occurs as a result of negligence. The killer was not provoked, and did not mean to kill anyone, but his or her negligent actions led to a death. A classic example of this form is vehicular manslaughter, in which someone's reckless driving leads to a death. If someone can prove that the negligence was intentional, the charge may be upgraded to murder. In some regions, someone with a history of driving under the influence (DUI) convictions may be charged with murder for a death which occurs as a result of drinking and driving, rather than manslaughter.

Its not up to you or I but up to a Judge...but your right
Quote:
Originally Posted by PYROBUG51 View Post
http://www.wisegeek.com/what-is-vehi...nslaughter.htm

This includes the death of friends or family members involved in an accident caused by someone's negligent behavior. People are not exempt from criminal liability when they cause the deaths of people they know and they can also incur civil liability. For example, if a reckless driver kills a friend, the friend's family may sue the driver for damages.
and wisegeek.com is your source of legal informaion? when every state has its own laws. good for you.

i dont know who these guys are and could care less what happens to someone who runs away from cops.

how is Dustin deciding to run on a motorcycle he is 100% in control of and getting in an accident and dying due to Jeremy's negligence?

they were in seperate vehicles, they did not have a meeting and say, "ok, lets run" each rider had full control of his own throttle and brakes.

please explain how Jeremy's negligence led to Dustins decision to run or Dustin accident?

like i said, you've taken it so personal you may have forgotten the circumstances.

thats the only reason i can see for you likeing this situation to someone dying in an accident caused by a negligent driver.

please answer a simple question without any legal terms,, How is Jeremy responsible for Dustin's decision to run orDustin's accident. and what action of Jeremy's equates negligence?
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Old 04-14-2010, 11:09 AM   #505
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After reading a lot of this thread, it has become obvious that members are split on this.

His friends are defending him and seems that they want him to walk and all be forgiven, while a lot want him to get slapped with some heavy charges or even rot in jail for this.

So far no one here is a lawyer and laws have been posted and no one seems quyite sure how to interpret them.

We will see what happens.

I, myself, dont want anyone to rot in jail forever but this guy needs to face up to some music. I am sure he is a cool guy and is a skilled rider from all the praises I have heard about him from those who know him.

I just wonder if these feelings about him were the same had the person that died been his defender's son, brother or father. I know he didnt kill him and the guy that died made his choices but perceptions and opinions change drastically when its a loved one that was lost.

He has a bit of a history of irresponsibility and this just takes the cake. I know its been said a million times but like this is what puts the heat on the rest of us that just want to ride and not run, or do 250 down I-10 and crash into someone.

I dont think he should be charged with the guy's death, I think that would be stupid but I dont know the law that well when it comes to these matters.

He does need to get slapped with something that will make him think twice. I drive the same roads as some of these crazy guys with my 2 year old son and pregnant wife in the car. I really dont need people running into me cause they are evading the police.

This crazy bike is getting out of control and its just a matter of time til they start to really crack down on bikers.
You make some very valid points. I assume the same, that we are not all Lawyers here, but how the laws are ultimately interpreted will depend on who the players are in the court of law. We'll have the Prosecutor, the Defense Lawyer, the Judge... and the JURY. I was the Foreman on a relatively high-profile Murder Trial. All I will say in that regard, is that the Defense Lawyer did an excellent job; however, ultimately, based on my experience, this will come down to who ends up in the Jury, and the interpretations and decisions they make based on the case not only as it is presented, but also on their own individual opinions and perceptions on what they believe to be rightious and fair, which could be far reaching in either direction.

IMO, the Prosecutor will have to hope that most, if not ALL, on that Jury are the type that tend to "blame others for their own mistakes", as opposed to those types that believe in "personal responsibility", towards which the Defense Lawyer would prefer. Being that we're in Texas (and not California, Vermont, or Massachusettes ), the Prosecutor will be hard pressed to find a Jury to their liking. If they are pursuing this route, then I'd say they are stretching it, but doing so knowingly on the 50/50 chance that they'll win. Then if they were to lose, because they cannot prove their case "beyond a reasonable doubt", they can fall back on the other charge. Beyond a Reasonable Doubt is a high burden on the Prosecution, but it's all a game to these guys, so I would not be surprised if they went this route.

PS: I'm not defending either of these individuals, especially a thief (and a bike thief at that!), but I'm just expressing my opinion in the spirit of debate.

Last edited by FlipSideUp; 04-14-2010 at 11:13 AM.
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Old 04-14-2010, 11:10 AM   #506
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Originally Posted by Badzx14r View Post
i don't think you understand that moron lawmakers here have passes laws that for minor offences you get KGB treatment for years.. Gulag .. And thats why people run and will contunue to run .. this is not the land of the free no more
i really hope your joking, comparing the corruption of soviet Russia or eastern Europe to that of the US is ridiculous. even to modern Russia that's laughable.

American prisons,jails what not are 5 star resorts compared to gulags

KGB treatment means your family dissapears and never heard from again
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Old 04-14-2010, 11:11 AM   #507
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I WAS and ACTUALLY 40 percent off Im working on some rhinestone Chaps



Cdill so then we can go back to he was a dumbass for running!
Either he was a good guy, he got mixed into the wrong crowd, Accidents happen! OR He was a dumbass for running!
RIP to the Fallen But, you can t have your cake and Eat it too

I think Manslughter they decided to ride together and they both decided to run together...the video says they turned around when they saw the officers...lets see in court if one of them used hand signals to beat the law! That would mean they were in it together and if that is proven Manslaughter it is!
FOR VIPER3EZ!

I wrote this! Im sorry I thought you were paying attention! If they used Hand signals or gestures....which I dont knowIM SPECULATING! Im just saying! Then Yes he did contribute!
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Old 04-14-2010, 11:13 AM   #508
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Quote:
Originally Posted by morvegil View Post
I hope he does. This slowback dude seems to be a scumbag squid of the lowest degree.

I know people who have had their bikes stolen know the feeling...especially since a bike is an extension of a man.

In my opinion bike thieves rate just a notch above rapist and child molesters and should be executed. Thats right, theres no "Oops, im sorry...i stole your bike". I dont believe in second chances, bike theft is a pre-meditated well thought out crime.

i'm already fully extedned. mine is just another toy and a means of transportation

but i would not hesitate to shoot anyone who attempts to steal mine. and like you said, its not a cr4ime of opprtunity, its almost always well planned
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Old 04-14-2010, 11:19 AM   #509
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PYROBUG51 View Post
Have you ever had your bike stolen? And how does it feel to work for something and lose it...Esp when your going through hard times and you just have Liability? I know it sucks for someone to steal from me!

Cool Guy that has a Track Record of stealing!

IF IM WRONG SOMEONE PLEASE TELL ME
History of Irresponsibility Back to Track Record of stealing!

Why do I need the Heat for this dumb Fugger I ride my own ride already I dont need a douche to set the presidence for me!

YOU DONT THINK HE SHOULD BE CHARGED WITH HIS DEATH...Werent you the one who posted a thread about BIKES ON 610 that your wife almost wiped out....WHAT IF THEY WERE RUNNING FROM THE COPS AND AND YOU WIFE SWEARVED TO MISS A BIKER AND FLIPPED HER VEHICLE AT HIGHWAY SPEEDS AND KILLED HER AND YOUR 2 YEAR OLD.....


NOBOBY SHOULD BE HELD RESPONSIBLE HUH? CAUSE SHE WAS DRIVING THE VEHICLE AND WAS IN CONTROL OF HER OWN VEHICLE!


I did post that. If it was an innocent bystander that got killed then charge him with the death. They were both criminal and in collusion with each other. I still stand behind what I first said, if someone hits me and hurts my family, then the courts are the least of their worries, I promise you that.
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tejano? Rape me
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Old 04-14-2010, 11:22 AM   #510
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Texas is one of the few states that all involved in the commission of a crime are charged equally. Meaning the driver gets the same charge as the guy who shot the clerk, however a shorter sentence. A fact in the case will be if the second rider took the same route as the first rider did up to the accident. That may be enough to say that as a result of the first rider's action the second rider died, opening up to a 2nd degree felony evading charge. If they are considering manslaughter I guarantee they'll go for the evading, but again I'm just going by my own experiences here. We can all sit back and speculate but bottom line is this incident had two of the three results of running from the police...its just not worth it.
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Old 04-14-2010, 11:23 AM   #511
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PYROBUG51 View Post
FOR VIPER3EZ!

I wrote this! Im sorry I thought you were paying attention! If they used Hand signals or gestures....which I dont knowIM SPECULATING! Im just saying! Then Yes he did contribute!

so you are ranting and counting on Jeremy being punished for Dustin's decision to run based on your own "speculation" that they may have used hand signals while turning around to run and nothing else? Dustin had not made the decision to run that ultimately let to his death until the turned around(using hand signals in your head).

outstanding. i take it back, you are not making this personal or about you,

you are just a good screenplay writer.

you would do good in Hollywood California.
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Old 04-14-2010, 11:31 AM   #512
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PYROBUG51 View Post
http://www.wisegeek.com/what-is-vehi...nslaughter.htm

This includes the death of friends or family members involved in an accident caused by someone's negligent behavior. People are not exempt from criminal liability when they cause the deaths of people they know and they can also incur civil liability. For example, if a reckless driver kills a friend, the friend's family may sue the driver for damages.
You might just be right and he might be charged with the death. Maybe he SHOULD get sued, or charged even if it doest stick or if he wins the suit. This is not a first time for him and he needs to feel a little inconvenience.

If he was on probation already, then I can tell you that he will have no bond and he will be in jail for a while. When ever someone on probation gets arrested, his PO is immediately informed and they almost always revoke it, especially in this situation. What that means is that he gets to serve the rest of the conviction he was in probation for and has to go through this whole ordeal while behind bars or until his probation in reinstated or he finishes his previous jail term in which time he will be eligible for bond.


It just really get SO SO old hearing about all these "accidents" the last few years. ALL of them unnecessary, too. We had 3 deaths in one night last week in Austin, I think 2 were fleeing police. Motor cop buddy told me that the PD was going to really start cracking down for the next few months on bikers. Just bringin' on the heat.
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Old 04-14-2010, 11:31 AM   #513
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Quote:
how is Dustin deciding to run on a motorcycle he is 100% in control of and getting in an accident and dying due to Jeremy's negligence?

they were in seperate vehicles, they did not have a meeting and say, "ok, lets run" each rider had full control of his own throttle and brakes.

please explain how Jeremy's negligence led to Dustins decision to run or Dustin accident?
How about this... :-)

They were riding together, as has been provided by others, reputedly slowback05 is a 'good' (cough) streetrider, Dustin had not had hits bike long and possibly of less skill/ability.

(shrug) as I pointed out earlier.. two guys break into a house, 1 gets shot and killed the other is held responsible. They were two people with individuals brains...capable of independent thought and making their own choices.


p.s...and how do you know, that they did not agree to 'run' if they encountered police prior to the ride? (we don't know if they did, or didn't...just addressing a specific point of your commentary).
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Old 04-14-2010, 11:36 AM   #514
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Quote:
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so you are ranting and counting on Jeremy being punished for Dustin's decision to run based on your own "speculation" that they may have used hand signals while turning around to run and nothing else? Dustin had not made the decision to run that ultimately let to his death until the turned around(using hand signals in your head).

outstanding. i take it back, you are not making this personal or about you,

you are just a good screenplay writer.

you would do good in Hollywood California.
What do you do when you see a COP?
What do you do when to slow down?
What do you do when you see debris in the road?

YOU USE HAND SIGNALS....So if you were gonna run from the cops what hand signal might that BE?

Thats right you guessed it....I am not a judge or making this personal...Im simply have a conversation on the internet...You dont know me and I dont know you...We all have differances in Opinions and thats the beauty of this country! I said IF THEY HAD USED GESTURES OR HAND SIGNALS then yes he probably could be held liable in a civil suit..I didnt go to LAW school but I'd like to think Im semi Intelligent! I agree with everthing you say But I disagree with you and you think I AM WRONG I told you I'll agree with you but you say I should go to Hollywood! So whos making it personal! Just dont disagree with me and I wont agree with you
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Old 04-14-2010, 11:37 AM   #515
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I wish I knew who the driver of the rv was. I would gladly send him a letter of sincere apology for the actions of my fellow riders. I had a friend that ran over and killed a suicidal woman that jumped from a bridge and he still has nightmares about it 12 or 14 years later. I, myself, hit someone going 55. Not my fault and she fully recovered and we became friends but I felt like for a long time after that.

I hope it doesnt traumatize the poor guy too long, but I am sure it will.
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Old 04-14-2010, 11:38 AM   #516
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Quote:
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How about this... :-)

They were riding together, as has been provided by others, reputedly slowback05 is a 'good' (cough) streetrider, Dustin had not had hits bike long and possibly of less skill/ability.

(shrug) as I pointed out earlier.. two guys break into a house, 1 gets shot and killed the other is held responsible. They were two people with individuals brains...capable of independent thought and making their own choices.


p.s...and how do you know, that they did not agree to 'run' if they encountered police prior to the ride? (we don't know if they did, or didn't...just addressing a specific point of your commentary).
You belong in Hollywood... Lets go together! Thats what Im saying!
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Old 04-14-2010, 11:40 AM   #517
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I wish I knew who the driver of the rv was. I would gladly send him a letter of sincere apology for the actions of my fellow riders. I had a friend that ran over and killed a suicidal woman that jumped from a bridge and he still has nightmares about it 12 or 14 years later. I, myself, hit someone going 55. Not my fault and she fully recovered and we became friends but I felt like for a long time after that.

I hope it doesnt traumatize the poor guy too long, but I am sure it will.
I could see that Unlike me I see dead people all the time..Just a piece of meat if I dont know them Stuff like that doesnt affect me anymore but to the average Joe if haunts them
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Old 04-14-2010, 11:44 AM   #518
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I wouldn't want the law to get a hold of this

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Old 04-14-2010, 11:44 AM   #519
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Old 04-14-2010, 11:44 AM   #520
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ulric View Post
How about this... :-)

They were riding together, as has been provided by others, reputedly slowback05 is a 'good' (cough) streetrider, Dustin had not had hits bike long and possibly of less skill/ability.

(shrug) as I pointed out earlier.. two guys break into a house, 1 gets shot and killed the other is held responsible. They were two people with individuals brains...capable of independent thought and making their own choices.


p.s...and how do you know, that they did not agree to 'run' if they encountered police prior to the ride? (we don't know if they did, or didn't...just addressing a specific point of your commentary).
you are right sir. and i'm in debating mode, not that i care about either riders as they both made their choices.

i just think dude has taken it really personal going as far as speculating about hand signal use. and apparenttly i'm going the same route speculating about an agreement about whetehr to run or not.

which leads us back to both guys.

if Dustin was upstanding, why did he agree to run with the other dude? did he know the bike was stolen?

last week, we went for a ride and a few guys were seasoned riders and they took off, i took off behind them but after getting a feel for the speed they were going, i slowed my down and lost them. had to go on a different route i was familiar with.

so what happened to common sense, simple logic and the ability to think?

i am speculating but i'ld say they Dustin was not much oof an angel so its not reasonable to blame Jeremy for his actions.

i'm not talking legal here, i'm talking moral or logical or what hav you.

we all have brains and you'ld think the self preservation circuit in our system would let a novice know it s a bad idea to run with a far better rider.
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