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Old 03-30-2010, 01:38 PM   #21
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Old 03-30-2010, 02:15 PM   #22
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I know Chris; Its a horrible habit but its part of my self preservation. I wont over push myself if I stay within my comfort range.


to the OP: ride w some peeps that can explain it to you vs trying to speak through the internet. By loading up the handlebars you're relying on the traction of the front tire to push the remainder of the bike through a corner. If you're accelerating through the corner as you should be to put the weight on the rear tire... .well the weight is on the rear tire... one bump and that front tire looses traction you're done for.

Plus your cornering efforts would be considerably more to use the handlebars vs using your weight and feet to go through the same corner.
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Old 03-30-2010, 04:36 PM   #23
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I am going to have to disagree with some of you. I have scrapped the "feeler" thing on the outside of my A* raceboots before. Poor body position, probably...but you're all assuming the OP's rearsets are high as in a SS. On my 650r, the rearsets are low for a more upright position, so it's easier to scrape boot. Also, not everyone has super long legs to have knee down before the side of a boot. I've scrapped boot many times - just a few hours ago as a matter of fact on Allen Parkway.

But I do agree with being careful when scrapping boot because its not much further before you scrape peg and that can lead to big problems.
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Old 03-30-2010, 06:04 PM   #24
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Scraped my left boot my first TD at TWS (Texas World Speedway) on turn 5 leading to the back straight.
Instructor told me after, it was foot position. You want to keep your feet closer to the bike because it will make it easier to stick your knee out and get off the bike. You try to make a triangle with the leg you're leaning in on.

Try it next time you get on the bike, put your foot all the way on the outside of the peg, then the inside and see if it's not easier to make that triangle with your leg.
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Old 03-30-2010, 06:16 PM   #25
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Old 03-30-2010, 06:36 PM   #26
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This thread reminds me of the beginning of the Twist Of The Wrist dvd
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Old 03-30-2010, 06:42 PM   #27
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Dam I must be sniffin fumes. Others mentioned the same numbers.

Four of us at TWS (Texas World Speedway) during the cmra day saw 55 through that corner and even Kathy commented she wasn't gonna take it over 40 so she let us go ahead.
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Old 03-30-2010, 06:47 PM   #28
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Dam can't edit on my phone.
Add.... "yes officer I sniffed race fuel but I never inhaled lol"
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Old 03-30-2010, 07:20 PM   #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CaligoneTx View Post
Dam I must be sniffin fumes. Others mentioned the same numbers.

Four of us at TWS (Texas World Speedway) during the cmra day saw 55 through that corner and even Kathy commented she wasn't gonna take it over 40 so she let us go ahead.
Data acquisition numbers won't lie about corner speed but a speedo will. The more leaned over you are on the tire the shorter the effective radius of the rear tire is. In other words, your tire is effectively much shorter or smaller diameter and it will make the speedo read much higher than the actual speed you are traveling. Couple this with speedos that are usually pretty optimistic to begin with and you get a significant difference between what the speedo says and how fast you are actually traveling.
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Old 03-30-2010, 07:45 PM   #30
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To the OP. If you are dragging your foot before your knee it means you Foot Position sucks. Everyone above explained it well though. Ride on the of your feet.
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Old 03-30-2010, 07:46 PM   #31
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Old 03-30-2010, 08:31 PM   #32
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Old 03-30-2010, 09:38 PM   #33
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Old 03-30-2010, 11:37 PM   #34
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Here's a good read about body positioning, stolen from 1000rr.net. Enjoy

http://www.1000rr.net/forums/showthread.php?t=21556

Quote:
Originally Posted by 1000rr.net
Ok i see lots of times peope asking, wanting to learn, people who sometimes don't have the money to spend for a school (you should try though) or people who don't have anyone to saw them (the proper way).
I wrotte this small article intended to provide a little info regarding body positioning. I will also try to get some images for it as well. Enjoy.

So we always hear about proper riding position and knee dragging and new riders get even more confused.

Purpose of this small article is to help rider (new, more experienced it doesn't make a difference) understand proper riding position on your bike.

What is proper riding position? And who the does judge what your riding position should be? Well the judge is physics and the how we are just going to analyze.

How many times have you approached a turn and felt frozen started thinking of traction, speed, body positioning and a of a deal of other things. Did that moment make you think that you are not going to make it through? If it did (if you say noÖyou are probably lying to yourself or you havenítÖ.ridden yet) donít be worried its absolutely normal to get a scare, even experienced riders do have them time to time (try checking a few magazine videos, I know of a couple where you can hear the breathing from inside helmet cameras) itís how your mind reacts to a danger situation and how it tries to prepare your body for something that might go wrong.

The first and most basic things you need to understand and get really familiar before moving to body positioning is throttle control, braking, countersteering and overcoming your fears the rest such as body positioning and cornering art (lines, speed, time saving techniques) are not to be experiment with if you havenít got familiar with those basic issues. Believe me it might be fancy getting outside the bike and trying to lean all nice and like a motogp star but it ainít of any help if you donít know how your throttle works and how it affects suspension, corner speed and traction control.

If you want to learn more regarding those things I would suggest you attend a bike school (something like CSS) it is really worth the money even if you think that you have mastered these techniques (just ask a few professional riders).

Now on to body positioning, the first and most important aspect of cornering is to understand what exactly affects a motorcycle while cornering either at the start or the middle or even the exit of a corner.

So letís see some important factors regarding cornering:

Your bike is designed to handle a distribution of load, you donít have to know physics to understand that most of the weight distribution under extreme conditions should be handled by the rear part of your motorcycle, just look at the tires, the small front and the huge rear state this. Technically speaking a bike is working correctly while cornering when the weight distribution is around 30-40% at the front part and 60-70% at the rear this weight distribution is directly affected by throttle and brake handling (thus the mentioning of them previously).
A bike turns with the countersteering technique, this roughly (my intension is not to present what countersteering is through physics laws Ėwe can do that on a different thread- ) means that when you turn you apply gentle pressure to the handlebars to the opposite direction (you want to turn left, you apply pressure Ėwatch it pressure, not pulling- to the left clipon and vice versa).
You use the knee as a lean angle indicator, ok itís nice dragging the knee down and gives a more talented ďlookĒ to the rider, but the knee is there only as an extra (and free) instrument, it tells you how much lean angle you have at the moment, usually us mortal riders will stop leaning after the knee has touched the ground.
Handlebars are for steering, they are not for holding on them, this is vital and crucial to understand, and you use the clipons as levellers for pushing you donít rest your body weights on them.
The heaviest part of your body is your torso and your head, this is another crucial factor, you need to remember that hanging off does not mean moving your outside the seat, it means moving your body I see more and more often people hanging off but only their leg is sticking outside the bike, this is wrong. I know you have seen it done from MotoGP riders but you aint got neither their skills (maybe some of youÖbut you wouldnít be reading this) neither the motorcycle parts (suspension, tires) nor we are talking about different circumstances and different techniques.
Chicken stripes (duh) are not an indicator that you are leaning correctly, they are an indicator of your lean angle, if you donít move your weight to the inside of the turn and your tires have no chicken strips it means that you have higher chances of crashing from a rider who positions his body correctly for a corner.

But now lets start, there are many different techniques of hanging off the bike but there are common rules which need to be followed for achieving it correctly.

The first rule is that you need to move your body out of the seat and inside the turn, then you need to do this in a manner which does not disturb the bike, which would create problems and finally you need to have your hands relaxed and not pressing on the clipons.

So what is the procedure of cornering and body transition from side to side? (as mentioned above there are different ways of doing this, but you should always remember the common rules, bellow I will describe the way I prefer).

I always prefer to position my body before I start braking; this helps me because under heavy braking body movements will disturb the bike (again for us mortals, racers usually can do it without any problems). And if I try to position my body after braking (which would be the start of the corner) again I might disturb the bike. So before you start braking move your inside cheek outside of the bike (for example approaching a left turn you would move your left cheek to the outside of the bike) so much that only the opposite cheek rests on the seat.
Again before braking I prefer of positioning my legs properly so that I donít need to adjust my positioning during cornering. So I usually rest the ball of my inside foot to the edge of the peg, this helps me because of my height if I rest the ball on my peg I wonít be able to easily open my leg later (there is no correct or wrong at this, you need to find which is more relaxing and easily achieved for you). Note that you should be carefully positioning your leg, if you toes extend far to the ground there is a big chance of injuring them (Iíve seen riders breaking their toes while scraping the rearsets).

Your outside leg should be placed normaly on the rearset but you need to make sure that it allows you to put pressure on it, since its going to replace your hands on body movement later plus you will use it as a suspension extension.
When you have finished positioning your body you should actually start the braking of the bike, this is another crucial step of cornering and its crucial that it is performed correctly.
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Old 03-30-2010, 11:37 PM   #35
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Old 03-30-2010, 11:50 PM   #36
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good visuals!
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Old 03-31-2010, 01:36 AM   #37
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Quote:
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I am guilty of "Cross Body Positioning"
I still struggle with that today...
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Iím really happy for you and Iím going to let you finish but AJFlo is one of the baddest mother fockers of all time!!!
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Old 03-31-2010, 06:57 AM   #38
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that was an excellent article.

i was scratching my head alil bit on fully understanding what everyone was trying to convey with just words on the cross body positioning, but those pics get the point accross perfectly.

also i like that "kissing the mirror" reference. im goin to try and pay more attn. next time im humming though the forest and see if i am in deed using what ive just learned.

man i need to go do more trackdays!!!!!!
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Old 03-31-2010, 07:00 AM   #39
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Quote:
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I drag my out of bed every day
this is getting funny i saw it on the other thread LOL
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Old 03-31-2010, 08:07 AM   #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lorin70 View Post
Data acquisition numbers won't lie about corner speed but a speedo will. The more leaned over you are on the tire the shorter the effective radius of the rear tire is. In other words, your tire is effectively much shorter or smaller diameter and it will make the speedo read much higher than the actual speed you are traveling. Couple this with speedos that are usually pretty optimistic to begin with and you get a significant difference between what the speedo says and how fast you are actually traveling.
I was just thinking this on the way in but was trying to find a way to explain the relation from the axle to the different profiles during a lean.

up to 15% tire, 5-9% oem speedo(per yellowbox) etc...

Still my numbers are off. I think the glue in my helmet must be messin w me
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