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Old 06-06-2006, 04:17 PM   #1
C-MONEY
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SHIFTING?

still pretty new to the track-- burned up my first transmission- just wanna know from the experienced or anybody that thinks they got it down- how are you shifting- cause im just gonna keep riding the same unless someone opens my eyes :confused2
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Old 06-06-2006, 04:20 PM   #2
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i'm pretty sure that you are not 100% at fault. these tranny's are notorious for having such problems.
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Old 06-06-2006, 04:28 PM   #3
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only problem im having is down shifting too late and that causes that back wheel to bounce and sway.
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Old 06-06-2006, 08:58 PM   #4
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My goal is to downshift like dani pedrosa. That dude, . I have watched the onboard video and when he downshifts 6 to 2 it sounds like a machine gun, blipping every time in rapid succession. I've watched a lot of the onboard video on dorna and he is IMO the best downshifter in motoGP as far as smoothness and technique.

Downshifting takes a lot of practice for sure. I talked to a guy who has won a lot of endurance races and ridden all his life and I asked him if he brakes and blips the throttle at the same time. I was surprised to find out that he didnt really have an answer. He told me he tried keith code's technique but he was so used to matching revs differently he couldnt pick it up. I would suggest picking up keith code's book twist of the wrist and learning from that.

The way I downshift is clutch in, close throttle slightly, click one down, and open throttle as the clutch is released. Essentially rev matching, not blipping. I can do this like a machine, up and down through the gearbox with no wheel hop, wheelies, drive lash, etc. The prob is...if you are on the track, a lot of times you have to brake at the same time. That's what crosses me up so I usually downshift first and brake last, which means I'm engine braking...and thus losing time.

I'm trying to learn Nicky Hayden's method of squeezing the front brake with 1 or two fingers while blipping the throttle with his palm. I've seen him do that on motoGP vids, but I havent been able to comfortably do it. Work in progress.
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Old 06-06-2006, 09:01 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by arturo3rd
only problem im having is down shifting too late and that causes that back wheel to bounce and sway.
That wheel hop is due to downshifting too early. A slipper clutch would help but you could just brake harder first the downshift later. You have to find that fine line. If you are doing this wheel hop thing, you are probably not trusting the front tire and the brakes. I find it to be psychological. You could be entering the corners too hot as well.
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Old 06-06-2006, 09:08 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by arturo3rd
only problem im having is down shifting too late and that causes that back wheel to bounce and sway.

i have the same problem, easing the clutch out with the right rpm fixed it
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Old 06-06-2006, 09:17 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zixx6r
I'm trying to learn Nicky Hayden's method of squeezing the front brake with 1 or two fingers while blipping the throttle with his palm. I've seen him do that on motoGP vids, but I havent been able to comfortably do it.
this is the method i use... u should try some pazzo shorties...
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Old 06-06-2006, 09:18 PM   #8
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I'm no racer nor am I trying to undermind anyones knowledge on this site but do you have your shifter set in a correct easy and comfortable position to make clean shifts when doing track time. I had some issues with getting my shifter in a position going from my street gear to my track gear and it caused me to mis shifts going up from time to time. Miss shift and or banging it in just a little late can make bad for trannys fast.
Just a thought.
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Old 06-06-2006, 09:44 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bdmpastx
That wheel hop is due to downshifting too early. A slipper clutch would help but you could just brake harder first the downshift later. You have to find that fine line. If you are doing this wheel hop thing, you are probably not trusting the front tire and the brakes. I find it to be psychological. You could be entering the corners too hot as well.

the reason this i do this is becasue coming out of a turn i want to be in a low gear (2 or 3) with a more torque to catapolt me. that caused me to high side in T3 at TWS (Texas World Speedway) on street tires.

ive gotten use to it already but i need to work on matching the revs with the gear when downshifting. my year 636 didnt come with a slipper clutch. more seat time will help.
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Old 06-06-2006, 10:05 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Red
Miss shift and or banging it in just a little late can make bad for trannys fast.
Just a thought.
I hear you, I'm no pro either whatsoever but the topic is good...because most people are self-taught and that can be a bad thing because you get set in your ways doing usually the wrong thing. It's good to talk about it.

When I first started riding I told someone how I was banging through the gearbox. He basically told me that banging on it suggests you are shifting too hard and abusing the trans, and that's not a habit you want to be in. If you watch the pros feet, they are just nudging it into gear. Putting a little pressure on it before shifting up or down helps.

Thanks FZ1 for the tip! I still have my bent OEM's...new brake handle will be my next purchase, along with rearsets!
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Old 06-06-2006, 10:12 PM   #11
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Old 06-07-2006, 12:08 PM   #12
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Blipping the throttle is someting that must be done to minimize or eliminte the rear wheel chatter problem on the entry of a turn. For anyone that doesn't know what happens during that type of chatter, the tire/wheel and engine simply aren't at "matched" rpms. When you disengage the clutch the revs drop down as you can imagine, but nevertheless the wheel keeps turning at whatever angular velocity it was moving at. When you downshift and engage the clutch the rpms spike up trying to match the tire spin and this causes the rear to "chatter" since in a way it's locking up the tire a bit tryin to match its rpms. :BangHead:

When I first started riding I didn't bleep the throttle and as I got faster I began to get chatter obviously. Not that I wasn't fine with my rear tire sliding around, I actually thought it was kinda cool :icon_smil , it but I know its simply not the right way to go about downshifting smoothly with high rate of speed. I therefore began doing this blipping business.

I get to a turn and I get a big part of my braking done first and the remainder I do it while Im downshifting. The chassis gets really upset when not done somewhat smoothly and you can have a crash from loading up the front end too much. As im finishing my hard braking, I ease up on the brakes a bit and depress the clutch and while downshifting, I simultanoeusly blip the throttle with my palm/wrist (since obviously my fingers are still on the brakes). I then let go of the clutch rather quickly (fast but not dumping it) and im now in the next gear down. I can then stay on the brakes trail braking through the corner or repeat the downshifting if Im tryin to go down another gear. I know it sounds like a lot but it all happens so fast.

If anything just practice it at home just sitting on the bike with it in neutral
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Old 06-07-2006, 12:10 PM   #13
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This might help some of yall

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Old 06-07-2006, 12:29 PM   #14
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i know about blipping the throttle to match rves i just never had the need to do it until now, since i want to brake later when going into a turn and just go faster overall.

i need more seat time to practice that.
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Old 06-07-2006, 01:41 PM   #15
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u dont really need to be on track to practice this, nor u need corners, INITIALLY.
while coming to red light or STOP sign on the street, brake and downshift together, whil blipping throttle. thats half a practice, because u will probably not engage clutch, so u leave out the 'matching RPMs' part.

next while just doing normal street riding, blip the throttle and downshift randomly. wat u want to do is ensure that after u hv let ur clutch out fully (means engaged), the RPMs shuld not get a spike. this is second half of the traning done, whereby u blip and match RPMs, but do not brake.
both taken together, r a good enough practice,and safe, without having the need to take it to track, or do so in corners. once u r comfy doing this, then u can start doing it on corners in the track. job accomplished with much less track time needed.
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Old 06-08-2006, 11:20 AM   #16
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I downshift and brake at the same time. Match them and the bike will stay settled and dive into the turn easy. Adjusting your levers for a more aggressive track oriented riding position could help as well. Want to really figure out how to blip the throttle shift with out the clutch. You will definetly figure it out that way.
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Old 06-13-2006, 06:55 PM   #17
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http://bikepoint.ninemsn.com.au/port...opDefault.aspx

Sorry to dig this thread back up but I found an old australian bike article that I had bookmarked and forgotten about, might be helpful to a few you's.
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Old 06-14-2006, 09:55 AM   #18
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Ask for help while you are at the track. Best place in the world for track advice.
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Old 06-14-2006, 04:44 PM   #19
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Come see me at the next Longhorn track day, I've got the fool proof, beginners downshifting gig, and we can have you shifting like a veteran at the end of the day. You will eventually have to learn to brake and blip at the same time. Even with the slipper clutches you will find the chassis is more stable with a blip thrown into the mix. Slipper isn't the total anser,and remember to change your oil VERY frequently if you have a slipper as each time it engauges you are wearing the ramps, and all those little bits gotta go somewhere.
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Old 06-15-2006, 09:27 AM   #20
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Buck I'll take you up on that downshifting gig on the 24th. My old VFR sure would appreciate me learning how to shift better.
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