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Old 12-18-2009, 09:18 AM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pyrofallout View Post
I have taken CPR for health care providers multiple times, I have also taken generic CPR classes through work and school for everyone in general and been CPR certified since I was 15. ALL classes, the official curriculum taught to give 2 rescue breathes. And EVERY instructor has noted that breathes are NOT required and definitely at your discretion without a mask available.

Repeating myself here.
if you work in a hospital you have to give breaths. you can't have a pt. that is coding and not provide breaths, grant it you have an ambu bag and O2 but breaths are still required in a hospital setting.... repeat yourself all you want, the fact of the matter is you as a responder have no idea why that person is in distress, if that person has an obstruction or crushed airway, you'll never know unless you try to give a rescue breath. if the person has no respirations but a pulse.... you'll need to give a rescue breath because cpr is not done on a pt with a pulse. there are a million factors involved in first response and ALS.
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Old 12-18-2009, 09:27 AM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by witchdoctor575 View Post
if you work in a hospital you have to give breaths. you can't have a pt. that is coding and not provide breaths, grant it you have an ambu bag and O2 but breaths are still required in a hospital setting.... repeat yourself all you want, the fact of the matter is you as a responder have no idea why that person is in distress, if that person has an obstruction or crushed airway, you'll never know unless you try to give a rescue breath. if the person has no respirations but a pulse.... you'll need to give a rescue breath because cpr is not done on a pt with a pulse. there are a million factors involved in first response and ALS.
Hospitals or first responders will always have a bag valve mask, I am not talking about at a hospital or as a responder to a scene. I am talking about anyone nearby who is the first person to care for the person that goes down. Most times it is not going to be any trained responder and chances are they will not have the proper equipment at that time either. The institute that teaches and standardizes CPR is the American Red Cross, and every one of their instructors has made a point to say, that you do not have to give rescue breathing to a patient without a mask, especially if you do not know them.

I am not arguing that rescue breathing cannot save a life, I am telling you what is regularly taught by the agency who teaches CPR throughout this country.
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Old 12-18-2009, 09:28 AM   #23
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Wouldn't chest compressions cause air to be pulled into and pushed out from the lungs?
Wouldn't that be sufficient to keep a person alive?
I'm just asking cause I don't know but maybe that's why there is the discrepancy about whether or not rescue breaths are required.

Anyway the helmet removal devices are cool and maybe someday mfr's will incorporate something like that into the helmet. Something universal that EMT's around the world will know about and be trained to use.
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Old 12-18-2009, 09:31 AM   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pyrofallout View Post
Hospitals or first responders will always have a bag valve mask, I am not talking about at a hospital or as a responder to a scene. I am talking about anyone nearby who is the first person to care for the person that goes down. Most times it is not going to be any trained responder and chances are they will not have the proper equipment at that time either. The institute that teaches and standardizes CPR is the American Red Cross, and every one of their instructors has made a point to say, that you do not have to give rescue breathing to a patient without a mask, especially if you do not know them.
that's true.... what it boils down to is this...Hands-only CPR is intended for untrained rescuers and only for witnessed cardiac arrest. they teach hands only because lay people were 1. doing wrong 2. were more likely to do hands only because they aren't scared of catching a disease with mouth to mouth and something being done is (most of the time) better than nothing being done.
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Old 12-18-2009, 09:32 AM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bumblebee View Post
Wouldn't chest compressions cause air to be pulled into and pushed out from the lungs?
Wouldn't that be sufficient to keep a person alive?
I'm just asking cause I don't know but maybe that's why there is the discrepancy about whether or not rescue breaths are required.

Anyway the helmet removal devices are cool and maybe someday mfr's will incorporate something like that into the helmet. Something universal that EMT's around the world will know about and be trained to use.
yes some air is exchanged with just the act of compressions but not much.... there again, something is better than nothing at all.
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Old 12-18-2009, 09:37 AM   #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by witchdoctor575 View Post
that's true.... what it boils down to is this...Hands-only CPR is intended for untrained rescuers and only for witnessed cardiac arrest. they teach hands only because lay people were 1. doing wrong 2. were more likely to do hands only because they aren't scared of catching a disease with mouth to mouth and something being done is (most of the time) better than nothing being done.
agreed. and my thoughts earlier were simply that if someone witnesses a motorcycle wrecks and is going up to a patient, determines they are in cardiac arrest, and intends to do compression only cpr, why would you remove the helmet if you don't have to?
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Old 12-18-2009, 09:40 AM   #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pyrofallout View Post
why would you remove the helmet if you don't have to?
Is this a suspected smokin hot chick or a fat bearded Harley guy?

Cause if it's a chick that helmet, jacket and shirt are gonna have to come off as part of the initial assesment of the patient's condition.
rescue breathing will follow, even if unneccesary
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Old 12-18-2009, 09:42 AM   #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bumblebee View Post
Is this a suspected smokin hot chick or a fat bearded Harley guy?

Cause if it's a chick that helmet, jacket and shirt are gonna have to come off as part of the initial assesment of the patient's condition.
rescue breathing will follow, even if unneccesary
No way man, it's time for you to suck it up and give bearded stinky rebel harley guy mouth to mouth sans mask. Don't mind the homemade tattoos and the drug paraphernalia. I am sure he is clean as a whistle.

But what I was saying is really, for me, if I don't even know you, and I don't have a mask or a bag, I am likely giving you compression only. Of course any person actually responding to a scene will have all the necessary equipment to not only give you CPR and rescue breathing with a bag but a defibrillator as well. Me or anyone else for that matter riding a backroad somewhere on the bike will be lucky if they have so much as a one way valve mask.
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Last edited by Pyrofallout; 12-18-2009 at 09:44 AM.
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Old 12-18-2009, 09:43 AM   #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pyrofallout View Post
No way man, it's time for you to suck it up and give bearded stinky rebel harley guy mouth to mouth sans mask. Don't mind the homemade tattoos and the drug paraphernalia. I am sure he is clean as a whistle.
OK but NO tongue...






this time.
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Old 12-18-2009, 09:44 AM   #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pyrofallout View Post
agreed. and my thoughts earlier were simply that if someone witnesses a motorcycle wrecks and is going up to a patient, determines they are in cardiac arrest, and intends to do compression only cpr, why would you remove the helmet if you don't have to?
well, that goes back to my original post too..... if you don't know what your doing.... don't! layman get trained well enough to act in a pts. favor for the handful of minutes it takes for a trained person to arrive. there again though, if a lay person determines that there is an airway obsruction and the helmet is the culprit.... the helmet needs to be removed. chances are though if a m/c wreck victim has no ABC's then technically that person is dead and worrying about paralysis is low on the totem pole and everything needs to be done to restore ABC's.
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Old 12-18-2009, 10:13 AM   #31
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on the subject of the OP, I believe Shoei X-12 has incorporated a similar concept to their helmet line. I wouldnt be suprised if all Japan line of helmets begin using this concept.

Japan is known for extremely high quality, rather than quantity and size. Japanese quality standards are top notch.

I would cerainly prefer to have the helmet removed like this rather than cutting it in half.
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Old 12-18-2009, 10:14 AM   #32
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Originally Posted by htownballa View Post
on the subject of the OP, I believe Shoei X-12 has incorporated a similar concept to their helmet line. I wouldnt be suprised if all Japan line of helmets begin using this concept.

Japan is known for extremely high quality, rather than quantity and size. Japanese quality standards are top notch.

I would cerainly prefer to have the helmet removed like this rather than cutting it in half.
But at least for a while, most responders aren't going to know that helmet is capable of that, they are still going to cut it right off if they need to.
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Old 12-18-2009, 11:22 AM   #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by witchdoctor575 View Post
yes some air is exchanged with just the act of compressions but not much.... there again, something is better than nothing at all.
yes...bad CPR is better than no CPR...but once again if a person requires chest compressions from a traumatic event..ie motorcycle wreck...chances are(high chances) they are expired.

now if its a buddy you ride with then you can TRY to do everything possible for him/her. in the long run it will take the age old question out"what if...what if I did this...what if I did that"...
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Old 12-18-2009, 11:46 AM   #34
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Originally Posted by psychomedicHFD View Post
if a person requires chest compressions from a traumatic event..ie motorcycle wreck...chances are(high chances) they are expired.
i was gonna type that in an earlier post but I didn't want to sound too callous. lol
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Old 12-18-2009, 12:11 PM   #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by witchdoctor575 View Post
well, that goes back to my original post too..... if you don't know what your doing.... don't! layman get trained well enough to act in a pts. favor for the handful of minutes it takes for a trained person to arrive. there again though, if a lay person determines that there is an airway obsruction and the helmet is the culprit.... the helmet needs to be removed. chances are though if a m/c wreck victim has no ABC's then technically that person is dead and worrying about paralysis is low on the totem pole and everything needs to be done to restore ABC's.
If your out on 3090 and have a accident with a buddy think of this
Response Time of a AMBULANCE
How bad is the Patient

the new red Cross says you can give just Chest Compressions or NOW 30:1...Everyone but medically trained personel are cover by the good samaritain law if you help and you the patient up you will not be held accountable...So thats why they say something is better than nothing And I guess it has been proven that as long as you are pumping the blood thru the body you are recirculating 21 percent of 0xygen which we inhale...when you give breaths you only deliver 16 percent...so recirculating 21 percent and keeping it flowing thru the blood stream has more of a advantage than giving breaths and flowing 16 percent
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Old 12-18-2009, 12:12 PM   #36
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If we are talking about 3090 in particular. If someone goes down bad enough and has no breathing no pulse. They are as good as dead. It'll take 45 mins just to get a box to them.
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Old 12-18-2009, 12:15 PM   #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pyrofallout View Post
If we are talking about 3090 in particular. If someone goes down bad enough and has no breathing no pulse. They are as good as dead. It'll take 45 mins just to get a box to them.
+1 and then they will wanna fly them and that will take another 30 mins then transport another 30 by chopper the golden hour is gone

On that NOTE: I think this may help you if you are in a accident where the Patient is breathing but having neck or back pains and you really dont wanna move them...but then again who carries CO2 City of houston Doesnt!

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Old 02-12-2010, 06:18 AM   #38
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between the 2 different offerings...

I have to say that i would probably go with Arai's style more. it seems more controllable to work with on removing the helmet.

current helmets today are slightly "rolled" on, and should be VERY FITTING. not sure about the inflate-a-bag approach to remove something that meant to be taken off a certain way.

but I would have to see a video of it in operation. to me the Arai version seems "soft" for removal, where as the ShockDoctor approach seems "hard" to the patient.

want to see more though,(on the Shock Doctor version) as i am interested, and would like to actually be wrong on this subject.


incidentally, there is another helmet (or helmet product..cant remember which) that has an "ICE PACK" sandwiched between the liner, and the styrofoam, that when impacted, mixes two chemicals, and immediately chills the helmet. keeping the head cool, and to prevent additional swelling if there is a head injury.

if i am correct, it is two thin layers of chemicals seperated from each other, but in a VERY thin "sheet" covering the majority of internal helmet surface area.
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Old 02-12-2010, 09:26 AM   #39
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cycle gear is selling the shock doctor kit for motocross applications.
http://www.cyclegear.com/spgm.cfm?L1...=SDR_891-01-30
Still not quite sure on the usefullness.

GAU-8: interesting cold pack idea.
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Old 02-12-2010, 04:23 PM   #40
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if a helmet takes a decent impact, it's garbage anyway. Cut the off. I do like how the manufacturers are incorporating the pull out cheek pads. If it comes down to me living, cut the fckr off!
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