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Old 12-16-2009, 05:35 PM   #1
rc51eviltwin
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tire help,guide?

well my plan is to start racing next season.
my question is which tire to run.
only tires im familiar with are the 003's and the BS slicks.
basically my question is a cross comparison chart between the "big 4" make.
no need in price and what "anyone" can get them for or which is liked best(opinion wise).
only facts pleez.
i might of not made any sence
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Old 12-16-2009, 05:53 PM   #2
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best ones are the Dunlop 211s NTEC
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Old 12-16-2009, 06:05 PM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr Whoopie View Post
best ones are the Dunlop 211s NTEC
opinion or fact?
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Old 12-16-2009, 06:32 PM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 2slow View Post
opinion or fact?


FACT is, your looking for a ghost. All your going to ever get is opinion. The only FACTUAL info on the tires is: Dimensions, cost & contingency. Beyond that your getting opinion. I can give you 100 reasons why Pirelli is the best or why Bridgestone is the best. It comes down to what works for YOU. Have you had any issues with the Bridgestones?
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Old 12-16-2009, 07:56 PM   #5
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ok,i guess what im looking for is for ex.
BS bt003=mich P1=pir diablo=dun ntec ...sorta as far as what it is comparable to as per tire series.make more sence?
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Old 12-16-2009, 08:32 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rc51eviltwin View Post
ok,i guess what im looking for is for ex.
BS bt003=mich P1=pir diablo=dun ntec ...sorta as far as what it is comparable to as per tire series.make more sence?
Ah OK.

Race DOT's:
Bridgestone BT003
Pirelli Diablo Supercorsa
Dunlop D211
Michelin Power One

Race Slicks:
Bridgestone Superbike SLicks
Pirelli Diablo Superbike
Dunlop KR Series Slicks
Michelin Power One Slicks

Bridgestone:
Do not confuse the BT003 with the BT003RS. The Ride Smart is a trackday tire, not a race tire. The slicks are a couple of years old in terms of slick developement, but still a very good tire for the money. We have been making great strides on making the BT003 work better and helping Bridgestone Corporate with some testing. I think the BT003 is a great product. Contingency rocks and is paid via a paper certificate.

Pirelli:
The Diablo Supercorsa is the same tire they race in World Supersport. The Diablo Superbike is the 17" version of the World Superbike slicks. They run 16.5" slicks in World Superbike, I can get them, but obviously you will need 16.5" wheels to run them. Also the rate of development on the Pirellis is getting faster. At this point we are about 3-4 months out. That means when they discover something new that works at the World level, it takes 3-4 months to become available to the consumer. Contingency was good for 2009, but is really improving for 2010. It is paid out via a American Express card.

Dunlop:
The D211 NTEC is their top tier tire. Last year in AMA the Sportmax GP was the spec tire for the Daytona Sportbike & Supersport classes. The American Superbike series ran the 17" NTEC slicks and/or D211 DOT's. The NTEC has always been produced in England, until recently. Dunlop brought over a NTEC machine to their Bufflo, NY facility, so the tire could be made cheaper. Importing the NTEC is what drove the cost up on the Dunlops. Always has been and always will be. They do not cost more because they are better, they cost more because they have to come out of the UK. Dunlop hopes to lower those costs by building the NTEC in Bufflo, but the quality of the product is unknown as the product has not really hit the market yet.

Michelin:
The Power One series is the latest version of tires from Michelin. The tires seem OK, but I have not seen anyone doing anything special on them in the US. Rob Jensen (long time Michelin rider & Development rider) has been winning but certainly not crushing people like years past. I'm not sure if that is a reflection of the new tires or just underlying problems with setup.


Anyway, I hope that is the info you were wanting. If you want to talk more, give me a call (281) 703-0296.
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Old 12-16-2009, 08:47 PM   #7
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As far as best overall tire feel and grip. The 211 NTec is the best. Super grippy and last forever. Second best michilin p1. The front tire no longer has the grip or no grip like the past michilins fronts. The perellis have always felt a little mushy to me. Like a lot of flex in the tire. Especially in the front. The last bridgestones I rode felt real slippery at the edge. They have all gotten really close now
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Old 12-16-2009, 08:57 PM   #8
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As stated all of the tires are very close in terms of performance.

It really comes down to personal preference and service.

I'm not sponsored by any of the tire guys, so IMO considerations go like this:

Does the characteristics of the tires I'm running suit my riding style?

What does contingency pay, how far down the grid does it pay and how many racers have to be entered for it to pay?

Third and to me most important; Are the tires readily available EVERY race weekend in the compounds I need and is the track side guy knowledgeable about his product and available for support?

On that last parameter John with SCRC is my go to guy hands down and David at Michelin is a close second.
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Old 12-17-2009, 12:04 AM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SCRC John View Post
Ah OK.

Race DOT's:
Bridgestone BT003
Pirelli Diablo Supercorsa
Dunlop D211
Michelin Power One

Race Slicks:
Bridgestone Superbike SLicks
Pirelli Diablo Superbike
Dunlop KR Series Slicks
Michelin Power One Slicks

Bridgestone:
Do not confuse the BT003 with the BT003RS. The Ride Smart is a trackday tire, not a race tire. The slicks are a couple of years old in terms of slick developement, but still a very good tire for the money. We have been making great strides on making the BT003 work better and helping Bridgestone Corporate with some testing. I think the BT003 is a great product. Contingency rocks and is paid via a paper certificate.

Pirelli:
The Diablo Supercorsa is the same tire they race in World Supersport. The Diablo Superbike is the 17" version of the World Superbike slicks. They run 16.5" slicks in World Superbike, I can get them, but obviously you will need 16.5" wheels to run them. Also the rate of development on the Pirellis is getting faster. At this point we are about 3-4 months out. That means when they discover something new that works at the World level, it takes 3-4 months to become available to the consumer. Contingency was good for 2009, but is really improving for 2010. It is paid out via a American Express card.

Dunlop:
The D211 NTEC is their top tier tire. Last year in AMA the Sportmax GP was the spec tire for the Daytona Sportbike & Supersport classes. The American Superbike series ran the 17" NTEC slicks and/or D211 DOT's. The NTEC has always been produced in England, until recently. Dunlop brought over a NTEC machine to their Bufflo, NY facility, so the tire could be made cheaper. Importing the NTEC is what drove the cost up on the Dunlops. Always has been and always will be. They do not cost more because they are better, they cost more because they have to come out of the UK. Dunlop hopes to lower those costs by building the NTEC in Bufflo, but the quality of the product is unknown as the product has not really hit the market yet.

Michelin:
The Power One series is the latest version of tires from Michelin. The tires seem OK, but I have not seen anyone doing anything special on them in the US. Rob Jensen (long time Michelin rider & Development rider) has been winning but certainly not crushing people like years past. I'm not sure if that is a reflection of the new tires or just underlying problems with setup.


Anyway, I hope that is the info you were wanting. If you want to talk more, give me a call (281) 703-0296.
thanks John,thats what i was after.
i alway thought the 003rs was the better tire........
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Old 12-17-2009, 01:11 AM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rc51eviltwin View Post
thanks John,thats what i was after.
i alway thought the 003rs was the better tire........


The "Ride Smart" stands for Racing/Street.....They are a great street/trackday tire to a point, but the BT003 Pro is the full race DOT. That may explain the "OK" opinion of Bridgestone. The BT003 Pro are far better than "OK". The BT003 Pro are not available through anyone but race tire distributors. There are only 8 of us in the country.
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Old 12-17-2009, 07:51 AM   #11
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Question here, as its already been brought up in a few posts in this very thread.


I hear people mention things like "the tire that suits your riding style." Well, instead of being so vague with that advice, can any of you............just in general terms........kinda cliff note or explain which tire works best for which kinda riding style????? I mean if folks can say use what suits you, there must be some underlying scenario or rough guess on which tire may suit the way you ride??

Am i crazy?


Edit: Bridgestone known for "this" and may suit ""this" kind of style.
Pirelli best at "this" and works great for "this" kinda rider/characteristic. May not work well with "this" style.
So on and so forth??

Last edited by Brian f.; 12-17-2009 at 07:54 AM.
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Old 12-17-2009, 09:11 AM   #12
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During the off season pick up a set of tires from each manufacturer, if you want to keep the investment down buy take offs with plenty of life. Try them out and see which tire YOU prefer and suites your style, budget, and track side support needs.
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Old 12-17-2009, 09:32 AM   #13
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People are always beating around the bush for absolutes regarding Tires and Setup. There are none. What would be tremendously helpful, would be testing. The cost of that however is outrageous, and not practical. At the pace of a typical Novice rider, trackside support /cost/and contingency program, should weight heavy on your decision. IMHO
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Old 12-17-2009, 09:51 AM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Turnerscasa View Post
People are always beating around the bush for absolutes regarding Tires and Setup. There are none. What would be tremendously helpful, would be testing. The cost of that however is outrageous, and not practical. At the pace of a typical Novice rider, trackside support /cost/and contingency program, should weight heavy on your decision. IMHO
Yep!
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Old 12-17-2009, 10:51 AM   #15
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Let's not even get into setup. If the setup is off, any tire can be made to feel horrible......If the tire pressures are wrong, any tire can feel horrible. The best thing to do, IMHO is to pick a tire that you:
1) Like the cost
2) Like the contingency
3) Like dealing with the vendor

Then find a suspension tuner. STICK WITH THIS PERSON. Together you guys can get the bike working around whatever tire you choose. Like it has been said, all of the tires are pretty close now, unless your running within a second of the lap record, ANY tire brand will work for you......really I'm being honest here. I've got fast guys in the CMRA on both of the brands I sell, how is that if 1 particular brand is in fact "better" than the rest? The FACT is it would not matter what those guys rode on, they would still be fast.
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Old 12-17-2009, 11:23 AM   #16
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^^^+1 meeelion^^^

The problem I see is that most guys don't change anything except tires.

When one feels better to them it is only because the sizes are different and fit the bike better. When all that had to be done is set the bike up for that original tire.
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Old 12-17-2009, 04:50 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ROADandTRACK View Post
^^^+1 meeelion^^^

The problem I see is that most guys don't change anything except tires.

When one feels better to them it is only because the sizes are different and fit the bike better. When all that had to be done is set the bike up for that original tire.
yes,this is the same reason im leaning toward the BStones.
last i checked i as gonna have to do some suspension tweaking to get the P1's to work how i wanted.plus i felt like the michelins didnt fade but rather just quit....i might of been paranoid though.......
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Old 12-17-2009, 11:23 PM   #18
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How can you come to that conclusion if you never got the bike setup for them?
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Old 12-18-2009, 12:39 AM   #19
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Old 12-18-2009, 12:57 AM   #20
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FACT:

Eric Falt - CMRA #1 Expert Overall - Bridgestone
Connor Blevins - CMRA #2 Expert Overall - Bridgestone
Jon Francis - CMRA #3 Expert Overall - Bridgestone
Gary Giarratano - CMRA #4 Expert Overall - Bridgestone
Brandon Warren - CMRA #5 Expert Overall - Bridgestone
Ted Phillips - CMRA #6 Expert Overall - Dunlop
Danny Kelsey - CMRA #7 Expert Overall - Michelin
Derek Wagnon - CMRA #8 Expert Overall - Bridgestone
John Orchard - CMRA #9 Expert Overall - Pirelli
Gil Epperson - CMRA #10 Expert Overall - Bridgestone



100% Fact right there. No debate about it - 70% of the CMRA top 10 experts are on Bridgestones.
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