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Old 11-02-2009, 03:32 PM   #1
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How "slick" are public streets and highways?

I had a moderately costly incident a few months back in a parking garage where I low-sided my Speed Triple about a month ago. It suffered a broken clutch lever, shifter and a few minor scratches, but money and bikebandit saved the day! ufh... Thank goodness no one saw me.

I was going up and around the garage going a little too fast, and as I was in a mild curve and headed up a ramp, the bike slipped out from under me. I guess the concrete was just too slick, because I didn't see any signs of liquid residue that would reduce the friction coefficient of the ground. I'm actually a quite conservative rider, so you can imagine my the look on my face when the back started to slide out from under me. (People are always passing me on the loop, hauling around turns while I'm thinking "man, that guy is eventually going to kill himself."

So now, about a month later, I find myself in fear of leaning too far on public roads. I know the bike will lean further than my current experience level allows, but how "slick" are public highways?

Are highways such as the 610 loop more concrete based and hence more slick than interstates? I just want to avoid this happening again if I can help it.
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Old 11-02-2009, 03:41 PM   #2
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fear keeps you alive. Training will overcome the fear. Take MSF if you haven't and attend trackdays. You will be a better rider.
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Old 11-02-2009, 03:42 PM   #3
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Tough question to answer. Is it possible to drag knee/get 45 deg angle on the freeway? Yes. But it only takes one beater leaking oil to DRASTICALLY affect the friction coefficent of the surface. So the answer is Yes and No.
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Old 11-02-2009, 03:44 PM   #4
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somebody else recently went down in a parking garge, and somebody else posted about how garages floors excrete some kinda powdery sunstance that makes them muck slicker then reg. streets.
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Old 11-02-2009, 03:49 PM   #5
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Yeah, I took the awesomest basic training a few years ago. I need to sign up for the advanced class soon.
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Old 11-02-2009, 03:50 PM   #6
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that would be me

http://www.motohouston.com/forums/sh...d.php?t=111896

go all the way to post 16 to see all the pics
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Old 11-02-2009, 03:58 PM   #7
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also, there is generally a lot of paint (arrows and stripes and more) in parking garages that get super slick.

on the street, the pavement is designed by the various agencies to have enough friction from the roadway grade and the use of coarse aggregates. roadway conditions may change with weather, debris, deterioration, and use.

roadway striping and pavement markings can be slick when wet too.

always ride according to the current conditions.
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Old 11-02-2009, 03:59 PM   #8
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Concrete (road surface) grips better than blacktop
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Old 11-02-2009, 04:04 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bluewave18 View Post
Concrete (road surface) grips better than blacktop
I would have to disagree...

Concrete may grip better when completely cleaned and clear, but put any kind of dust or debris and it becomes extremely slippery.
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Old 11-02-2009, 04:07 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bluewave18 View Post
Concrete (road surface) grips better than blacktop
True but...

Alot of the concrete has rain grooves cut into it, perpindicular to the direction of travel. They are narrow, shallow grooves that are hard to see while you are moving but they can reduce the amount of surface your tires contact by as much as 25%.
Think about 25% less grip the next time you want to banzai the U-turn lane under the freeway. I learned the hard way.

BTW the powdery substance on parking garage floors is called "dust".
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Old 11-02-2009, 04:23 PM   #11
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Quote:
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True but...

Alot of the concrete has rain grooves cut into it, perpindicular to the direction of travel. They are narrow, shallow grooves that are hard to see while you are moving but they can reduce the amount of surface your tires contact by as much as 25%.
Think about 25% less grip the next time you want to banzai the U-turn lane under the freeway. I learned the hard way.

BTW the powdery substance on parking garage floors is called "dust".
This is exactly the kind of concrete that I went down on. The grooves were cut (or brushed) perpindicular to the direction of traffic with a broom-like tool I believe. There was definitely some white powder that got kicked up, but not nearly to the effect of that referenced in the post where the other rider went down in a garage.

I'm of the opinion that, in general, asphalt is much more benevolent to riders under general road conditions, which usually include a light layer of debris (sand, mild rock etc that may be present on the loop or general roads).
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Old 11-02-2009, 04:45 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by moduleum View Post
I had a moderately costly incident a few months back in a parking garage where I low-sided my Speed Triple about a month ago. It suffered a broken clutch lever, shifter and a few minor scratches, but money and bikebandit saved the day! ufh... Thank goodness no one saw me.

I was going up and around the garage going a little too fast, and as I was in a mild curve and headed up a ramp, the bike slipped out from under me. I guess the concrete was just too slick, because I didn't see any signs of liquid residue that would reduce the friction coefficient of the ground. I'm actually a quite conservative rider, so you can imagine my the look on my face when the back started to slide out from under me. (People are always passing me on the loop, hauling around turns while I'm thinking "man, that guy is eventually going to kill himself."

So now, about a month later, I find myself in fear of leaning too far on public roads. I know the bike will lean further than my current experience level allows, but how "slick" are public highways?

Are highways such as the 610 loop more concrete based and hence more slick than interstates? I just want to avoid this happening again if I can help it.
610 is concrete, and it's roughed up when they make it. The surface is almost like sand paper so yes you have VERY good traction on it.

I've ridded a lot on 610, 59, 45, they all have very good traction (or else I wouldn't be here). All of the exits from 610 to/from 45 or 59 I've ridden through at 85-90mph without doubts (They have posted 35-40MPH signs. And yes that means I have to pass cars going through those exits, save your lecture).

In comparison you can pull 120 on the new part of I-10 with good bends (no knee dragging but I could touch the ground with my other hand) and felt pretty much confident that the tire and road will work well together.

MSF class will be huge help for you to over come your issues when it comes to bends. Fear keeps you alive, but it might kill you when you panic going in a turn too fast.

99% of the time if you think you're coming into the bend too fast, commit to the turn and you'll come out fine.

Again, take MSF or Advanced MSF course.
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Old 11-02-2009, 04:58 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RACER X View Post
somebody else recently went down in a parking garge, and somebody else posted about how garages floors excrete some kinda powdery sunstance that makes them muck slicker then reg. streets.
hmm....interesting
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Yeah, I took the awesomest basic training a few years ago. I need to sign up for the advanced class soon.
fk the advanced msf----u did msf, the advanced is basically msf on ur own bike. Just do a track day (msf on roids)

some good tires and trackdays provides a chit load of confidence...confidence goes alooooooong way on sport bikes...
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Old 11-02-2009, 05:02 PM   #14
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Old 11-03-2009, 09:45 AM   #15
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interesting

http://www.motohouston.com/forums/sh...d.php?t=117392

"and white film is caked on the exterior granite of a courthouse across the street. Modern parking meters, which appear new one block away, are covered with a heavy white film"
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Old 11-03-2009, 12:03 PM   #16
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Quote:
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hmm....interesting

fk the advanced msf----u did msf, the advanced is basically msf on ur own bike. Just do a track day (msf on roids)

some good tires and trackdays provides a chit load of confidence...confidence goes alooooooong way on sport bikes...
Yeah, I may be misinformed, but I always wondered what they could really teach you in the advanced MSF at parking lot speeds, besides low-speed maneuvers. I need to get my and the triple out to a track day stat to really learn something.

What are the main web sites that list track days around here?
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Old 11-03-2009, 12:20 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AJFLo View Post
I would have to disagree...

Concrete may grip better when completely cleaned and clear, but put any kind of dust or debris and it becomes extremely slippery.
IMO the concrete is better. I also know the lines are edges that provide grip as well as let the water run off. Its the same principle as siped/ groved tires.
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Old 11-03-2009, 03:02 PM   #18
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Best traction is rubber on rubber... concrete is iffy, asphalt is good as long as it isn't fresh and oily or so old it's full of whooptiedoos!
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Old 11-03-2009, 03:12 PM   #19
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i know this is about the streets, but this is the turn in my parking garage that I commonly slide through during the moist day.

I've never eaten it through here, but have felt the rear wheel kick out.

notice all the paint from arrows, old stripes, and warnings:
utf 8BSU1HMDAwMzgtMjAwOTExMDItMTcwN
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Old 11-03-2009, 03:50 PM   #20
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Concrete like in the pic will sweat also. Thats why they texture roads.
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