MotoHouston.com MotoHouston.com
Register Members List Member Map Media Calendar Garage Forum Home Mark Forums Read

Go Back   MotoHouston.com > General Discussion > Taking it to the Track
Forgot info?

Welcome to MotoHouston.com! You are currently viewing our forums as a guest which gives you limited access to the community. By joining our free community you will have access to great discounts from our sponsors, the ability to post topics, communicate privately with other members, respond to polls, upload content, free email, classifieds, and access many other special features. Registration is fast, simple and absolutely free, join our community!

Register Today!

If you have any problems with the registration process or your account login, please contact us.


FREE MH Decals by MAIL!

Advertisement

Reply
Share This Thread: 
Subscribe to this Thread Thread Tools
Old 10-15-2009, 09:47 PM   #21
1FC
380 Racing & Paint
 
1FC's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Feedback Rating: (1)
Posts: 1,901

Experience: 10+ years
Trackdays: 10+

Bike(s):
GSXR
GSXR
GSXR
GSXR






This is great argument, I think we need real data.
__________________
CMRA Novice Champion with / 380 Racing & Paint / South Central Race Center / Pirelli Rubber
Motorcycles Unlimited / Houston SuperBikes /
Cycle Gear / P-1 Suspension / M-4 Products / Family and Friends
1FC is offline   Reply With Quote
Similar Topics
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Removing Decals - Does anyone have... EquinsuOcha General Discussion (Moto Related) 20 11-03-2013 10:58 PM
Removing stator j_e_hurst How To's and Q & A's 4 08-25-2012 09:00 PM
removing baffle FastLife1K General Discussion (Moto Related) 4 01-29-2009 10:27 PM
thermostat ON1WHEEL How To's and Q & A's 5 01-10-2009 11:20 PM
Removing Forks BigComfy How To's and Q & A's 16 08-20-2008 08:27 AM
Advertisement
Old 10-16-2009, 12:12 AM   #22
qwezy
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Feedback Rating: (0)
Posts: 809












this is my senses,no argu
most today street and track bikes r EFI models,some with mods like PCIII-PCV-juice box-ignition box-dyno shift.....etc,even liquid cooled carb. models...they all have TPS and ECT sensors (and many other sensors too ) send input signals to ECM so engine can have right amount of fuel (injectors pulses) and right advance timming...
we all know thermostat is just like a valve control coolant flow and temp at setted temp.-more coolant flow- lower coolant temp -engine runs cooler/richer right but less advance timming and guess what more blow-by !
coolant too hot-over heat-engine shut down or even lock up...
so which way do i go ! i don't take thermostat out but i do cut the jiggle pin leave there a small hole installed at top 12 clock position and i run a secondary radiator fans switch which match thermostat setted temp-turn fans on sooner (low speed if 2 fans and high speed if 1 fan) than the original fan switch or an overide manual on/off switch(track bike yes-street bike may be) to turn fans on/off....
qwezy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-16-2009, 12:17 AM   #23
civicious
Senior Member
 
civicious's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Nawfside
Feedback Rating: (5)
Posts: 1,811

Experience: 1-3 months

Bike(s):
TZR250






Quote:
Originally Posted by qwezy View Post
this is my senses,no argu
most today street and track bikes r EFI models,some with mods like PCIII-PCV-juice box-ignition box-dyno shift.....etc,even liquid cooled carb. models...they all have TPS and ECT sensors (and many other sensors too ) send input signals to ECM so engine can have right amount of fuel (injectors pulses) and right advance timming...
we all know thermostat is just like a valve control coolant flow and temp at setted temp.-more coolant flow- lower coolant temp -engine runs cooler/richer right but less advance timming and guess what more blow-by !
coolant too hot-over heat-engine shut down or even lock up...
so which way do i go ! i don't take thermostat out but i do cut the jiggle pin leave there a small hole installed at top 12 clock position and i run a secondary radiator fans switch which match thermostat setted temp-turn fans on sooner (low speed if 2 fans and high speed if 1 fan) than the original fan switch or an overide manual on/off switch(track bike yes-street bike may be) to turn fans on/off....

Removing the thermostat
__________________
IDB RACING
10541 FM 1960 W #300 - (281) 477-3038
http://www.idbracing.com
civicious is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-16-2009, 12:25 AM   #24
qwezy
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Feedback Rating: (0)
Posts: 809












ye ye,alright English isn't my mother-lang !!! sory
qwezy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-16-2009, 01:46 AM   #25
Grinchy
Senior Member
 
Grinchy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Seabrook
Feedback Rating: (15)
Posts: 15,535

Experience: 10+ years
Trackdays: 10+

Bike(s):
'prila









Quote:
Originally Posted by 1FC View Post
This is great argument, I think we need real data.
honestly it's not meant to be an argument, more of a debate
Grinchy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-16-2009, 01:59 AM   #26
Grinchy
Senior Member
 
Grinchy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Seabrook
Feedback Rating: (15)
Posts: 15,535

Experience: 10+ years
Trackdays: 10+

Bike(s):
'prila









Quote:
Originally Posted by gixxxer600 View Post
I use to think that it would decrease the efficiency of the radiator because of the increased velocity. I now believe that it would be a case by case basis upon each model. You would have to decided if flow is turbulent, the coolant temp in and out, boundary layer theory, etc, etc. It would take some experimenting to decide.

Any easy solution is to ask, why would a company's engineers waste money designing the thermostat if it wasn't needed? IC engines have a specific optimum operating temperature which the thermostat may help reach and maintain.
because they are designing/engineering a product for the benefit of the street user.
on the track the engine is being worked much harder (relatively) and often with gearing that encourages a higher rpm to speed ratio.
Now throw in a tuned motor and the heat build up will overwhelm the cooling system in a lot of cases.
I agree with the case by case statement.
I know the 2004 R6 could be tuned and run gearing of -1F and +3R and just about manage on a standard rad over a short race.
The 04 Honda CBR600 in the same spec needed a bigger rad!
Grinchy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-16-2009, 02:01 AM   #27
Grinchy
Senior Member
 
Grinchy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Seabrook
Feedback Rating: (15)
Posts: 15,535

Experience: 10+ years
Trackdays: 10+

Bike(s):
'prila









Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr Whoopie View Post
If u remove the thermostat u hav to install a restrictor plate that flows just the right amount of water for proper cooling.
and where would you buy one of these???
or is it something you fabricate yourself??
Grinchy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-16-2009, 02:05 AM   #28
Grinchy
Senior Member
 
Grinchy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Seabrook
Feedback Rating: (15)
Posts: 15,535

Experience: 10+ years
Trackdays: 10+

Bike(s):
'prila









Quote:
Originally Posted by gixxxer600 View Post
This fixes the flow rate problem but not the efficient temperature problem. I think that a lot of people believe that a cooler engine performs better which is not true.
but you control the running temp when the thermostat is removed by adding or taking away tape!!
cold day = tape on the rad
warm day = peel off some tape
hot day = no tape at all

this is perfected during practice!
Grinchy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-16-2009, 02:26 AM   #29
Grinchy
Senior Member
 
Grinchy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Seabrook
Feedback Rating: (15)
Posts: 15,535

Experience: 10+ years
Trackdays: 10+

Bike(s):
'prila









Quote:
Originally Posted by Patrick View Post
Grinchy,
We've got a saying here in the States:

If it ain't broke don't fix it.

As myself and several other experienced racers have posted, removing the thermostat more often than not causes issues.:banghead:
Yet with all due respect almost every bike on the BSB Superstock 600 grid has had the thermo removed,
most of the SS600 BSB bikes are missing it,
the Kawasaki factory squad remove theirs,
Seton Yamaha that has wildcarded in WSBK SS600 remove them,
several bikes I've seen prepped for the IOM TT have them removed etc etc
my pal Pat, 2008 British MRO Superstock 600 champion, had it removed,
my buddy AW, 2nd in 2008 British 600 SuperSport Cup, has it removed

so why do they do it if it's not beneficial??

I can't argue the thermo hydrodynamics, I don't understand them enough
I'm just calling it as I see it,
they take them out, why??
you guys don't, why??

I'll go as far as to say I don't know anybody over this side of the pond who doesn't!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

maybe Texas water has different properties

maybe it's just a tradition thing,
like you drive on the right and we on the left,
Grinchy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-16-2009, 05:26 AM   #30
Romeo36
Mother****ersi'llkillyou
 
Romeo36's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: stinkadena
Feedback Rating: (2)
Posts: 5,329

Experience: 10+ years

Bike(s):
sv650,rc51,gsxr750,6oo,sdg107









Send a message via AIM to Romeo36
I may be wrong. But doesn't it get hotter over here than it does there??
__________________
Riding a Duc is kind of like, you may get a cramp in your wrist, but you keep on trucking because it feels so good.
Romeo36 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 10-16-2009, 07:50 AM   #31
Chubby Racer
The Confusion
 
Chubby Racer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: between a chair and a screen
Feedback Rating: (2)
Posts: 19,401

Experience: 8 years
Trackdays: 10+

Bike(s):
'07 R6
'02 KLX110(tarded)








Send a message via ICQ to Chubby Racer Send a message via AIM to Chubby Racer Send a message via MSN to Chubby Racer Send a message via Yahoo to Chubby Racer
Quote:
Originally Posted by Grinchy View Post
Yet with all due respect almost every bike on the BSB Superstock 600 grid has had the thermo removed,
most of the SS600 BSB bikes are missing it,
the Kawasaki factory squad remove theirs,
Seton Yamaha that has wildcarded in WSBK SS600 remove them,
several bikes I've seen prepped for the IOM TT have them removed etc etc
my pal Pat, 2008 British MRO Superstock 600 champion, had it removed,
my buddy AW, 2nd in 2008 British 600 SuperSport Cup, has it removed

so why do they do it if it's not beneficial??

I can't argue the thermo hydrodynamics, I don't understand them enough
I'm just calling it as I see it,
they take them out, why??
you guys don't, why??

I'll go as far as to say I don't know anybody over this side of the pond who doesn't!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

maybe Texas water has different properties

maybe it's just a tradition thing,
like you drive on the right and we on the left,
Question 1: are any of them running ANYTHING as a flowe restrictor? This would be interesting to know.

Question 2: do any of these bikes have any of the stock cooling system left (besides maybe the water pump)?


What pro racers do with custom-built, oversized rads, and what us track junkies do with cobbled together stock are two entirely different things. For all we know, they have a restrictor built into the rad pipes!
__________________
A motorcycle is a joy machine. It's a machine of wonders, a metal bird, a motorized prosthetic. It's light and dark and shiny and dirty and warm and cold lapping over each other; it's a conduit of grace, it's a catalyst for bonding the gritty and the holy.

CMRA #302
Chubby Racer is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools

Advertisement


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 09:40 AM.


MotoHouston.com is not responsible for the content posted by users.
Privacy Policy