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Old 09-29-2009, 11:22 PM   #21
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have you got your bike back Justin or do we still have it?
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Old 09-29-2009, 11:29 PM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SpeedCheeser View Post
Interesting, that's another thing I was wondering if that ever happened. So you would rather brake, rev match down one, brake more (repeat as necessary) - is that because a non-slipper or just personal preferences?
I have a slipper of sorts. it comes stock on a gsxr-1000. Regardless, I still downshift gear by gear and use the clutch.
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Old 09-29-2009, 11:32 PM   #23
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have you got your bike back Justin or do we still have it?
heh, nope...still up there Just got the stator TODAY. Only took 2 weeks. I need to pick it up from the office and then get it up to you guys. Need to find out how much I'm looking at on the install too. Probably PM Patrick in the morning.
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Old 09-29-2009, 11:32 PM   #24
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I was really suprised that my 675 didn't come with one, kinda disappointing. :(
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Old 09-29-2009, 11:33 PM   #25
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heh, nope...still up there Just got the stator TODAY. Only took 2 weeks. I need to pick it up from the office and then get it up to you guys. Need to find out how much I'm looking at on the install too. Probably PM Patrick in the morning.
LMK if i can help BTW my phone is fubar, so PM me if I can help
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Old 09-29-2009, 11:46 PM   #26
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^ that sucks. Help huh? You mean like pay the shop fees?

lol, thanks man. I'll let you know. I appreciate it.
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Old 09-30-2009, 08:25 AM   #27
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Track, is a different story, doble apex turns more storys, want to pass on the brakes, way more, u get spooked on turn 1 on TWS (Texas World Speedway), don't use the front brake, just the rear and when you get close to the fence that is the way out there, just drop the bike lol
I don't remember a fence out there? Well......I don't remember grass being out there either.

Never mind.
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Old 09-30-2009, 08:36 AM   #28
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Blipping the throttle helps to keep the bike from nosediving during the downshift and is a good habit whether you have a slipper or not. Make sure you get your downshifting done before turning in and off the clutch. Don't want to have the bike 'coasting' into the turn..either on the brakes or on the gas. The sooner you are back on the gas, the more control you have of the bike.
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Old 09-30-2009, 08:55 AM   #29
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Quote:
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But my process has always been to press in clutch, brake and shift to the gear I want, let off brake and enter turn, clutch out and gas on near apex.
so let me get this right, you hold the clutch lever to the bar halfway into the turn, and then dump it out right before you get back on the gas? If thats what you're doing........street or track, thats wrong for several reasons.
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Old 09-30-2009, 09:41 AM   #30
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here's what i do....

brake, downshift (gear by gear while slipping the clutch out between each downshift), i suck at blipping the throttle, so i feather and slowly release the clutch then get back on the gas.

my back end gets real squirrely during the whole process, but my bike doesn't have a slipper clutch, and i don't wanna put $1,000 more bucks into the bike.....so i'll just slip my own clutch out.

the key to it all is being smooth with your inputs. if you see me out at the track, feel free to come talk to me, it's better and easier explained in person. i'd be glad to help.
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Old 09-30-2009, 09:46 AM   #31
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Quote:
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Tom - when do you let the clutch back out after downshifting? Before the turn? Starting your lean? Apex? That's the part that's getting me the most, is when to let clutch back out, because I thought it wasn't necessarily a good idea to let clutch out in the apex of a turn.
I let the clutch out right away- especially with a slipper clutch. As I think someone already mentioned (I didn't read all the replies), you want to be done doing everything before you turn.

Even without a slipper clutch, the clutch is out after down shifting- I don't ride the clutch through the turn.

Again, finish what you're doing before you turn in- finish braking, finish shifting, then turn in.
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Old 09-30-2009, 09:47 AM   #32
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If you listen to Jason Pridmore, you're not supposed to blip. You're supposed to do your down shifts as you roll off the throttle, and slip the clutch. Actually, it was one of the major focuses of his class.
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Old 09-30-2009, 09:58 AM   #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by po-po 5.0 View Post
If you listen to Jason Pridmore, you're not supposed to blip. You're supposed to do your down shifts as you roll off the throttle, and slip the clutch. Actually, it was one of the major focuses of his class.





You will notice his end slides around a lot with this method. I would'nt reccommend this for a novice until they were really comfortable on track.
I used to ride my R1 like that and it's a bit un-nerving if you are not used to it.

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Old 09-30-2009, 10:02 AM   #34
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You will notice his end slides around a lot with this method. I would'nt reccommend this for a novice until they were really comfortable on track.
I used to ride my R1 like that and it's a bit un-nerving if you are not used to it.

He played that exact video for us in the classroom.
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Old 09-30-2009, 10:04 AM   #35
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Quote:
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so let me get this right, you hold the clutch lever to the bar halfway into the turn, and then dump it out right before you get back on the gas? If thats what you're doing........street or track, thats wrong for several reasons.
That's basically what I've been doing in my car. Trying to break that habit on the bike...once I get it back. But I think that's essentially what I've been doing, maybe more so at turn entrance than apex. And not dumping the clutch, but rev matching and feathering out.

Quote:
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You will notice his end slides around a lot with this method. I would'nt reccommend this for a novice until they were really comfortable on track.
I used to ride my R1 like that and it's a bit un-nerving if you are not used to it.
Thanks, I'll check that out in a bit.
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Old 09-30-2009, 10:15 AM   #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SpeedCheeser View Post
That's basically what I've been doing in my car. Trying to break that habit on the bike...once I get it back. But I think that's essentially what I've been doing, maybe more so at turn entrance than apex. And not dumping the clutch, but rev matching and feathering out.
Car or bike.............I'm pretty sure you want the clutch engaged through the turn. ESPECIALLY on a bike. Not having the crank's inertia makes the bike a lot harder to turn in. Ask any track rider what happens when they hit a false nuetral going into a turn, they run wide cuz the bike doesn't turn like its supposed to.

Not to mention you've lost ALL rpm by the time you go to release the clutch. It might work on the street when the motor has to jump from a 1k rpm idle to 4k, but on the track................going from 1k rpm to the 10k+ you should be running to get a good drive (assuming a 4 cylinder bike) is going to make the step out, and unsettle the suspension.
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Old 09-30-2009, 11:17 AM   #37
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Im not an expert or anything but if you want to develop good habits, start rev-matching when downshifting and always do it whether you have a slipper clutch or not.

Not to dog anybody but some of the things being said might increase your chances a falling during a turn.

To practice... cruise down a calm street at a high gear and then start rev-matching (throttle-blipping) WITHOUT using the brakes just to get a feel for it and keep practicing without the brakes until you feel the bike engaging in each gear SMOOTHLY without any jerking what so ever. ALWAYS use your clutch when downshifting. Once you have gained confidence, do that same routine but with 2 fingers on your brake lever and the other 3 fingers to blip the throttle (this is very similar to Heel-toe-downshifting in cars). Again maintain smoothness and all movements should be executed quickly.

I assume your bike doesn't have a slipper.. so dont dump clutch with blipping or slam gears because I would hate for you to practice bad habits on the street and then cause you to get into an accident.

Once you got that down, follow what maxgs and tomLSTD where saying.

If you cannot get the blipping down, HouseofPains advice is excellent.


Since you ride street these should be good tips to follow. Trust me, I've ridden 22,000 miles on my current bike always rev-match-downshifting... whether its on a stop light, exiting freeways, turning at an intersection... its all second nature to me now.
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Old 09-30-2009, 11:17 AM   #38
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Far too much for me to type on a BBS.

Much more effective as a verbal discussion.
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Old 09-30-2009, 11:39 AM   #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by po-po 5.0 View Post
Car or bike.............I'm pretty sure you want the clutch engaged through the turn. ESPECIALLY on a bike. Not having the crank's inertia makes the bike a lot harder to turn in. Ask any track rider what happens when they hit a false nuetral going into a turn, they run wide cuz the bike doesn't turn like its supposed to.

Not to mention you've lost ALL rpm by the time you go to release the clutch. It might work on the street when the motor has to jump from a 1k rpm idle to 4k, but on the track................going from 1k rpm to the 10k+ you should be running to get a good drive (assuming a 4 cylinder bike) is going to make the step out, and unsettle the suspension.
Right. I guess I could have worded my question differently, but I guess what I was trying to ask everyone is what method they use in order to get their throttle set before entering the turn. As in:

1. clutch in/roll off/ brake, release brakes/blip throttle/ release clutch (every time you down shift), reapply brakes

2. clutch in/roll off/ brake, release brakes/blip throttle/ release clutch (only once in the gear you need), reapply brakes

3. roll off/brake, clutch in/down shift, lightly feather out clutch immediately after down shift while still on brakes

etc. Make more sense? I understand you want throttle set before initiating lean, just seeing how some people handle that when they're down shifting for a turn.
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he's a viking accountant. he looks at the bottom line, then he yells at it.
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Old 09-30-2009, 11:45 AM   #40
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Anyhow, what I seem to be gathering from most, is while on the brakes, down shift and feather the clutch out immediately but gradually after each gear, while blipping the throttle is not necessary.

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Far too much for me to type on a BBS.

Much more effective as a verbal discussion.
lol...understandable, and I'm all ears and eyes to those that know more about this than me. Noob m&g to teach the Cheese how to ride his bike?
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I always thought speedcheeser was a meth head with a fondness for dairy products.
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he's a viking accountant. he looks at the bottom line, then he yells at it.
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