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Old 09-08-2009, 11:29 AM   #1
ileono918
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Question Who provides EMS/Ambulance services on TD?

I have been at a couple TD where several riders have crash. Sometimes, the ambulance needs to take them to a hospital and the rest of us riders need to wait until another ambulance is on the premises, thus cutting a lot of track time.

I am not sure what is the cost associated with having another ambulance in the premises, but it would be good to have at least 2 of them at each track day to avoid this situation.

I am not sure who is responsible to provide this service, if it is the TD org or the track itself, but maybe a compromise can be reached between TD orgs and tracks to make this plausible.
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Old 09-08-2009, 11:38 AM   #2
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Were you out at TWS (Texas World Speedway) yesterday? lol (For TWS (Texas World Speedway)), I thought there was typically one ambulance on site and when it rolled to the hospital the company was notified to send another unit while the other transported, thus saving some track time. Not sure if that was always the case....it seemed as though we literally had to wait for the transport, drop off, and then their return. Dave mentioned they had a change in contract, but I had a hard time following what he was saying.
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Old 09-08-2009, 11:45 AM   #3
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I would say having 1 ambulance is what keeps the total cost of the trackday down. I have been to some events where they have 2 on scene. But then again not sure of the total cost of the ambulance, but doubling that which on a higher volume event might of been worth the extra 10 bucks on everyones tab. But then again I was having a great time and the extra time let me concentrate on what I needed to work on. And then some events I have been to they sit there all day and that my friends is a win win for everybody.
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Old 09-08-2009, 11:52 AM   #4
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Trackday org is responsible for contracting for these services. To my knowledge, Ride Smart contracts for one unit on site at all times whereas LSTD contracts for 2.
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Old 09-08-2009, 12:09 PM   #5
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The TD contracts with the track, not the acutal ambulance provider. The TD tells the track how many ambulances to have on site for the event. The track contracts with the ambulance to provide the service.

Cost is a huge factor, ambulances are extremely expensive to have on site. We require an ALS standby, which is different than some who only require BLS. ALS is also more expensive (paying for the staff).
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Old 09-08-2009, 12:16 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by po-po 5.0 View Post
Trackday org is responsible for contracting for these services. To my knowledge, Ride Smart contracts for one unit on site at all times whereas LSTD contracts for 2.
with that being said....and this is just an observation...BUT

Ride Smart admitted that the first td of the year, Memorial Day, and Labor Day have the most incidents than any of the other days throughout the season(typically). One would think you'd be pro-active to that statistic, other than preaching safety and riding within your ability. We all know that doesn't work all the time. Just an observation.

and I'm sure if you have 90+ participants, an extra $10/head to save time wouldn't be a big deal. I know I'd pay an extra $10 to expedite the down time for the wanna be rossi's. lol
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Old 09-08-2009, 12:27 PM   #7
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I have seen Dave, physically, write checks to the EMT. Not at World, but elsewhere. So, maybe some tracks are different than others, as far as who contracts with who.

I never saw the amount, but I'd guess its pretty close to $1k, per.

If I owned Ride Smart, I'd raise prices a bit..and perhaps, on historically well attended events, contract with another ambulance. From my experience with Dave, he'd certainly be open to spending more money on safety, but I doubt he will raise prices.

The guy is GENUINELY happy to break even.

Also, I dont think you can take one bad day, and implement a policy accross the board.

At MSRH, they've sent another unit out while the track side unit was in route with a patient.

So, in summary...I dont know anything.
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Old 09-08-2009, 12:30 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cdill35 View Post
Also, I dont think you can take one bad day, and implement a policy accross the board.
agreed, but if in 8 yrs of business you see more crashes on historically well attended days... it may be worth raising that extra $1k to keep things moving a little more swiftly. Feedback....that's all it is.
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Old 09-08-2009, 12:34 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dbuck View Post
agreed, but if in 8 yrs of business you see more crashes on historically well attended days... it may be worth raising that extra $1k to keep things moving a little more swiftly. Feedback....that's all it is.
I 100% agree.
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Old 09-08-2009, 12:52 PM   #10
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Tom,

What do you mean by ALS and BLS
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Old 09-08-2009, 12:54 PM   #11
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Advanced life support , basic life support
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Old 09-08-2009, 12:56 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by texasyankee View Post
Tom,

What do you mean by ALS and BLS
ALS- Advanced Life Support
BLS- Basic Life Support

In the state of Texas there are 3 levels in EMS. There are Paramedic, Intermediate, and Basic. Basic to keep from being overly complicated is basic life support. Intermediate adds IV's, a few meds and intubation. Paramedic adds cardiac monitoring and more medications.
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Old 09-08-2009, 02:11 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by texasyankee View Post
Tom,

What do you mean by ALS and BLS
We consider ALS as Paramedic level care, BLS we consider EMT-B level care. We accept one Paramedic and one EMT-B as ALS. Two EMT-B we consider BLS. We don't factor EMT-I in to our equation for ALS vs BLS.

As Chris stated, ALS = Advance Life Support, BLS = Basic Life Support.

In trauma (which is most of what a standby would see at a motorcycle track), BLS is sufficient IMPO.
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Old 09-08-2009, 02:24 PM   #14
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I thought no body would answer, thanks guys.

BTW, I am not talking about Ride Smart or LSTD or any TD org for that matter, I was talking about TWS (Texas World Speedway) though. It seems a lot of people crash there and on several ocassions I have had to wait until the following ambulance arrived.

The way I see it, if you pay for a TD in TWS (Texas World Speedway) 135 USD for an expected 7 sessions of 20 mins each, the cost per minute comes to around 96 cents. If at the end of the day you lost 20 minutes because of crashes, it is more expensive than the 10 dollars I would be willing to pay to have an extra ambulance there and have a green track.
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Old 09-08-2009, 02:29 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tomLSTD View Post
We consider ALS as Paramedic level care, BLS we consider EMT-B level care. We accept one Paramedic and one EMT-B as ALS. Two EMT-B we consider BLS. We don't factor EMT-I in to our equation for ALS vs BLS.

As Chris stated, ALS = Advance Life Support, BLS = Basic Life Support.

In trauma (which is most of what a standby would see at a motorcycle track), BLS is sufficient IMPO.



Granted this is true...cant do alot for trauma Pt's. But what would you rather have working on YOU if YOU went down? I would much rather have a Paramedic in the back working on me....and thats why we should pay more if need be...
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Old 09-08-2009, 02:38 PM   #16
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psycho, i give you permission to work on me if the event of an incident. also, please don't cut off my leathers (i just got them)
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Old 09-08-2009, 02:43 PM   #17
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Irak (and other TD attendees)

take a moment to read this thread regarding whambulances at the track. You may learn something new in the process.

http://www.motohouston.com/forums/sh...ight=ambulance
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Old 09-08-2009, 02:52 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dbuck View Post
Irak (and other TD attendees)

take a moment to read this thread regarding whambulances at the track. You may learn something new in the process.

http://www.motohouston.com/forums/sh...ight=ambulance
the reason Ambulance bills are so high is because we are also paying for the people that dont pay their ambulance bill...but that is another thread all in its own.

At HFD approx 80% of our runs are EMS...out of that 80% 90% of the people dont pay...thats why bills are so much.

1. You dont have to be transported to the ER by EMS...if you are a adult YOU have the choice to go or not to.

2. If you feel like you want to be checked out you can go by POV to ER or to your own PCP.

3. If I am at the trackday and you guys want a 2nd opinion on what to do I will be more than happy to lend my expert knowledge....or lack thereof
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Old 09-08-2009, 03:23 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by psychomedicHFD View Post
[/B]


Granted this is true...cant do alot for trauma Pt's. But what would you rather have working on YOU if YOU went down? I would much rather have a Paramedic in the back working on me....and thats why we should pay more if need be...
After being a Paramedic for the last 20 years, I'd say that I don't care either way. Not a whole lot more a Paramedic can do that a EMT can't do other than intubation; and in the country (where most of these tracks are) a lot of the medical directors do those ALS cross-over skills where the EMT does do intubations or combi-tubes or even EGTA...

Most of the tracks contract with private or volunteer EMS providers, so the Paramedics you get are usually transfer medics anyway with little to no practical application of emergency experiences. That's one of the reasons my bosses like me to be around; and the CMRA has folks on staff that are EMT's as well. Not paid to be there in that capacity, but can certainly offer help to the ones that are paid to be there as a nice piece of mind.

There's been a few threads on this bbs about this topic, it's been hashed out before.

As far as what Brandt (CDill) is referring to I can't comment; but it's true that we (track day providers) pay the EMS, but we don't contract them- the tracks do that. There's a big difference. All of the tracks have a provider that they contract with, and LSTD has no input to that, we just tell 'em what we want. Maybe Ride Smart does it differently, but I doubt it- I guess Brandt will have to speak on that for Ride Smart.
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Old 09-08-2009, 03:47 PM   #20
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^^ I am sure you are right. I don't know enough about it. Just figured if the track contracted with them, then the rate would be rolled into the track rental fee instead of a seperate check being cut, directly to the medics.

I, honestly, do not know though.
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