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Old 09-03-2009, 10:32 AM   #101
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Originally Posted by gixxxer600 View Post
Completely took my comment out of context but I will try my best to explain. What I am getting at here is the level of violence that an officer uses is based on the crime being committed or has been committed. If the person riding the motorcycle had just murdered someone, I would say this level of violence would be justified. They had no clue why the rider ran. He could have possibly forgotten to take his schizophrenia pills, etc, etc.

Question: Why is this method of stopping a fleeing motorcycle not protocol around the country?
What do you tell the son/brother/mother/wife the reason is for you killing their family member? A bag of weed?
in my eyes, if a rider is going to run, then they know that is a felony. if you have no prior felonies, then I'm sure you wouldn't want that to be your first one so you'd pull over. I'd assume that someone running either has a felony or has done something very bad to risk getting their first felony.

and your first sentence
Quote:
What I am getting at here is the level of violence that an officer uses is based on the crime being committed or has been committed.
is a felony not grounds for a pretty harsh level of violence on the officer's part?
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Old 09-03-2009, 10:33 AM   #102
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hmmm, intentionally, you know this how?
He intentionally pulled in front of a motorcycle at a high rate of speed in a vehicle with 3423423 the mass........I dont think he thought the guy would just get a bruised ego....do you?
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Old 09-03-2009, 10:35 AM   #103
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Thats a terrible story, sorry you had to see all of that . i went through something similar but it was a family minivan with no seatbelts.....

What would be the consequences of calling off the chase through a highly populated area?
why call off the chase instead of take out the rider if you can do so without casuing anyone else injury. he is in the direct act of committing a felony
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Old 09-03-2009, 10:35 AM   #104
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is a felony not grounds for a pretty harsh level of violence on the officer's part?
So your saying that a 3rd degree felony is enough reason to take someones life?
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Old 09-03-2009, 10:38 AM   #105
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So your saying that a 3rd degree felony is enough reason to take someones life?
i'm not saying that... the individual person decided that when they decided to run on a motorcycle. if they pull over, i highly doubt they will be killed. who rides a bike that doesn't know that if you crash a bike that you could die? how many chases do you see where there isn't a crash involved? i sure hope you have the reasoning skills to see what I'm pointing out here.

motorcycle -> cop lights -> (decision) try to evade -> crash -> possibly die
motorcycle -> cop lights -> (decision) pull over -> no crash
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Old 09-03-2009, 10:40 AM   #106
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What would be the consequences of calling off the chase through a highly populated area?
As I already stated, from a rational point of view, a person would not run from the cops unless he's done something to warrant that; say raping someone, or killing someone.
As you stated, the cops don't know why he's running, only that he is. They have to assume the worst.

Let's go with your theory, someone rapes your wife and while leaving the scene sees a cop and freaks out, taking off.
The cop does not know he just raped your wife, he only sees someone taking off and trying to evade him.
He can only assume there's a good reason why, otherwise why would he be running?

However, he's in a highly populated area and he decides not to give chase, the rapist gets away.

2 weeks later he rapes again, knowing that if the cops chase him, they won't pursue because it's a highly populated area.

Can you see the problem with that?
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Old 09-03-2009, 10:43 AM   #107
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As I already stated, if someone chooses to run, on a single track vehicle at a high rate of speed and does not think dying or serious injury is a possible if not probable consequence, they're unrealistic.
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Old 09-03-2009, 10:44 AM   #108
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As I already stated, from a rational point of view, a person would not run from the cops unless he's done something to warrant that; say raping someone, or killing someone.
As you stated, the cops don't know why he's running, only that he is. They have to assume the worst.

Let's go with your theory, someone rapes your wife and while leaving the scene sees a cop and freaks out, taking off.
The cop does not know he just raped your wife, he only sees someone taking off and trying to evade him.
He can only assume there's a good reason why, otherwise why would he be running?

However, he's in a highly populated area and he decides not to give chase, the rapist gets away.

2 weeks later he rapes again, knowing that if the cops chase him, they won't pursue because it's a highly populated area.

Can you see the problem with that?
Patrick, I've given up in this thread. some people lack the reasoning to see that if you run, there could be ultimate consequenses to pay. for some, i really feel like they are trying to justify running from the cops and to place blame on someone other than the responsible party. Haven't you learned by now that it's always someone else's fault?
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Old 09-03-2009, 10:55 AM   #109
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I would like to see how this all turned out. what type of ramifications were entailed for the guy running? the cop for acting as he did? (lawsuit, probation, medal?)
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Old 09-03-2009, 10:57 AM   #110
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As I already stated, if someone chooses to run, on a single track vehicle at a high rate of speed and does not think dying or serious injury is a possible if not probable consequence, they're unrealistic and probably deserve it.
^ fixed it for ya, Patrick.


I couldn't bare to read everything already said, but come on. This guy is in the process of committing a felony (and who knows what he did before this to even begin the chase) and putting not only his own, but others' lives at danger in doing so. Don't wanna get your busted? Then don't break the law, and especially don't run. It's that simple. We all know that those cruisers are no where near as fast as a bike. So how do they catch/stop him if he doesn't willingly pull over? "Oh, but radios are faster than bikes". So what? They're not going to use a protective radio wave barrier to pull him to a stop. They're going to radio ahead to more cars who are going to what, not get in front of him and watch him pass so they can radio the next guy? Be realistic here people.
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Old 09-03-2009, 12:05 PM   #111
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im not even going to post my comment, because most of you are all ****ing stupid about what you say, especially about how it was right for the cop to do that, are you kidding me, ok so what, he ran, but for the cop to ram his car into him, he could have amputated his leg, or done something way worse to the rider, then it would have been the cops
persoanlly me, if that was me on that bike, i would have not gotten right back up, i would have layed my stiff on the ground and acted like i was about to die, then get a lawyer, and sue the **** out of the state for everything they got.

i have been pulled over a few times, had all my straight, inspection, insurance, registration, u name it.
i still get at MINIMUM 5 tickets, because the cop is soooo happy i pulled over.
stupid tickets like no blue reflectors on plate, low tread on tires, no mirrors, noise polution, are you kidding me give me a freaking break....this thread makes me sick
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Old 09-03-2009, 12:07 PM   #112
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i've been pulled over plenty of times.......and let off........CRAZY!
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Old 09-03-2009, 12:28 PM   #113
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Scares me how stupid some of the kids are here...

Cop 'rammed' the guy on the bike? The 'cop' wasn't doing 50-60MPH when he hit the bike. He used the car as a mobile roadblock, with just enough momentum/speed to ensure the bike would have a problem whipping around him. The Rider had sufficient time to see the LEO and stop and chose not too, thus further escalating the situation and accepting the enhanced risk.

The 'cop' could have easily held a higher speed and essentialy tried to run the bike down/over to stop em. It's evident in the video he wasn't trying for that, and if he had them impact would have been quite a bit more spectacular.


Quote:
im not even going to post my comment, because most of you are all ****ing stupid about what you say, especially about how it was right for the cop to do that, are you kidding me, ok so what, he ran, but for the cop to ram his car into him, he could have amputated his leg, or done something way worse to the rider, then it would have been the cops
What's '****ing' stupid' are the ones thinking people committing crimes, then trynig to escape should be treated with kid's gloves and pampers by the LEO's when trying to catch them.
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Old 09-03-2009, 01:38 PM   #114
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im not even going to post my comment, because most of you are all ****ing stupid about what you say, especially about how it was right for the cop to do that, are you kidding me, ok so what, he ran, but for the cop to ram his car into him, he could have amputated his leg, or done something way worse to the rider, then it would have been the cops
You buy your ticket and you take your chances.

No one forces someone to run. If you run, the cops will assume the worst and will give chase.

If you're on a bike and think that you can run without endangering yourself or others, you're not being realistic.
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Old 09-03-2009, 01:42 PM   #115
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They use to cut peoples hands off in the east for stealing.....

My points are
-Trying to evade is the dumbest thing you could do
-People who attempt to evade are putting their own life at risk, by choice
-The cop should not have intentionally tried to seriously injure or kill a person over a 3rd degree felony.

They actually should have just shot him broadside with buckshot, woulda saved the cruisers bumper and headlight

I forgot though, going against the grain on MH is Interwebz suicide
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Old 09-03-2009, 01:56 PM   #116
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i have been pulled over a few times, had all my straight, inspection, insurance, registration, u name it.
i still get at MINIMUM 5 tickets, because the cop is soooo happy i pulled over.
stupid tickets like no blue reflectors on plate, low tread on tires, no mirrors, noise polution, are you kidding me give me a freaking break....this thread makes me sick

You could always take up air hockey, easier to run like a badass without any danger of paying the price...
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Old 09-03-2009, 02:06 PM   #117
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Quote:
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-The cop should not have intentionally tried to seriously injure or kill a person over a 3rd degree felony.
i think cop was trying to stop bike, crashing was bikers fault........
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Old 09-03-2009, 02:47 PM   #118
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Dang, I had a feeling this thread would be one giant debate.

first off, its easy for anyone to sit here and arm chair quarter back what happened but a totally different experience all together to be the one in the officers seat.

I am not sure why that officer did what he did. As a officer myself its my opinion is that he used way to much force to stop that particular chase and i am almost positive that he got a chewing for doing so. but...i can only give you my opinion based on my work experience with HPD. for example; HPD general orders states that you cannot strike another vehicle (car, boat, motorcycle, any vehicle...) in order to stop or prevent a chase. If you are to do so you will be punished accordingly. HPD cannot do the "Pit Maneuver"

but...wherever this event in the video occurred their department might be trained in such maneuvers...

There is no telling why that officer pulled into a oncoming lane of traffic and stopped. there could be a thousand reasons or excuses. so i am not going to debate if it was wrong or right, lawful or not lawful.

i will just say; i would not be the one to do it.




As far as all that about the suspect being innocent until proven guilty...i really don't think that comes into play at this point. The suspect is being pursued for a reason. whether guilty or not he is wanted. So when a suspect tries to elude the police being innocent does not play into the equation. The officer is lawfully allowed to use any force reasonably necessary to secure the arrest. Now, i know anyone can come up with 1000 scenarios or instances where the officer has used more than reasonable force and to those examples i agree, the officer should be punished for doing so. But, the suspects innocence does not play into the scenario...hence the coined phrase "innocent in a court of law" and not "innocent on a street while running from the police when you have been suspected of a crime"
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Old 09-03-2009, 03:02 PM   #119
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Dang, I had a feeling this thread would be one giant debate.

first off, its easy for anyone to sit here and arm chair quarter back what happened but a totally different experience all together to be the one in the officers seat.

I am not sure why that officer did what he did. As a officer myself its my opinion is that he used way to much force to stop that particular chase and i am almost positive that he got a chewing for doing so. but...i can only give you my opinion based on my work experience with HPD. for example; HPD general orders states that you cannot strike another vehicle (car, boat, motorcycle, any vehicle...) in order to stop or prevent a chase. If you are to do so you will be punished accordingly. HPD cannot do the "Pit Maneuver"

but...wherever this event in the video occurred their department might be trained in such maneuvers...

There is no telling why that officer pulled into a oncoming lane of traffic and stopped. there could be a thousand reasons or excuses. so i am not going to debate if it was wrong or right, lawful or not lawful.

i will just say; i would not be the one to do it.




As far as all that about the suspect being innocent until proven guilty...i really don't think that comes into play at this point. The suspect is being pursued for a reason. whether guilty or not he is wanted. So when a suspect tries to elude the police being innocent does not play into the equation. The officer is lawfully allowed to use any force reasonably necessary to secure the arrest. Now, i know anyone can come up with 1000 scenarios or instances where the officer has used more than reasonable force and to those examples i agree, the officer should be punished for doing so. But, the suspects innocence does not play into the scenario...hence the coined phrase "innocent in a court of law" and not "innocent on a street while running from the police when you have been suspected of a crime"
THANK YOU! My only point was that to much force was used.

And the other part is true as well; everyone hates the police until the moment they have to call 911
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Old 09-03-2009, 03:06 PM   #120
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IMO not enough force was used

and thats why i ain't a cop........
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