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Old 09-03-2009, 08:41 AM   #41
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another youngin joins the fracus......lol
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Old 09-03-2009, 08:42 AM   #42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sbfuller View Post
if a cop sees you committing a felony then i don't think there is a need for the court system except for determining prison sentence. hypothetically speaking here... what if a cop pulls up to a domestic disturbance call and sees a man beating his wife with a baseball bat, the guy continues beating her agaist all of the pleas of officers, so the cop shoots and kills the guy. would the cop be in the wrong for using deadly force to stop the guy from potentially killing a person?
I see the parallel that the cop on the video saw a biker presenting an immediate threat to motorist and bystanders and felt the need to stop the bike. I do get that, and Im not saying I have all the answers or would have known what else to do to stop the bike.
I have to reiterate, I do think the guy running was dumb. But a cop has to weigh how much force is needed in any given situation. Whether they fight someone hand to hand, go to spray, go to tazer, go to asp or go to gun. The cop has been trained on how to assertain the amount of force justified, and I do not think the officer made the right decision here. I believe he went too far.
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Old 09-03-2009, 08:43 AM   #43
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theres a difference between self defence and intentionally having a head on collision with a guy
yes there is, but the cop was not protecting his own life, he was protecting the life of an innocelt person that this biker could kill by running. you'd be singing a different tune if the cops had the ability to end the chase with this at 20 mph and chose not to but then the rider killed a family of 5 when he ran wide in a corner
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Old 09-03-2009, 08:43 AM   #44
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who says im young? im just saying theres a big difference between that video and a guy beating his wife with a baseball bat or pointing a gun at a cop
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Old 09-03-2009, 08:44 AM   #45
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who says im young? im just saying theres a big difference between that video and a guy beating his wife with a baseball bat or pointing a gun at a cop
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Old 09-03-2009, 08:44 AM   #46
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when a cop sees a drunk driver do they perform the pit? do they pull up next to him and shoot him in the face? do they tbone him?
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Old 09-03-2009, 08:45 AM   #47
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Quote:
Originally Posted by less_than_coop View Post
I see the parallel that the cop on the video saw a biker presenting an immediate threat to motorist and bystanders and felt the need to stop the bike. I do get that, and Im not saying I have all the answers or would have known what else to do to stop the bike.
I have to reiterate, I do think the guy running was dumb. But a cop has to weigh how much force is needed in any given situation. Whether they fight someone hand to hand, go to spray, go to tazer, go to asp or go to gun. The cop has been trained on how to assertain the amount of force justified, and I do not think the officer made the right decision here. I believe he went too far.
all that said while you have a few minutes to sit here and think about it. the cop had seconds, maybe not even that to think about it. he used whatever tools he had at his disposal to stop someone in the direct commission of a felony.

the CHL law allows you to shoot someone for that doesn't it?
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Old 09-03-2009, 08:45 AM   #48
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Quote:
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Let's discuss innocent till guilty.

A maniac pulls a gun and starts waving it around, pointing it indiscriminately at people and threatening to shoot them. The cops show up and he refuses to surrender his weapon, and points it at the cop. Should the cop shoot him?
Is the guy with the gun still "innocent" or has he committed a crime, and to prevent loss of innocent life his must be endangered, something he brought upon himself when he started waving the gun around.

By choosing to run, he just committed a crime, he is guilty, his actions going forward are endangering cops and innocent bystanders, it's no different.
SBF made a similar point, and I concede that he was putting innocent lives in danger.

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so what would have been non-excessive force? how would you stop a motorcycle that is running from you without putting innocent peoples lives at his mercy?
I would be bullshitting if i gace an answer to that. I dont supposed to have all the answer, but I think that trained LEOs should have another solution other than ramming someone head-on.
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Old 09-03-2009, 08:45 AM   #49
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lol did you really look up my profile after i posted? or after i asked
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Old 09-03-2009, 08:48 AM   #50
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a quick search... i know it on WIKI, but still....

Quote:
Deadly force, as defined by the United States Armed Forces, is the force in which a person uses for the purpose of causing, or that a person knows, or should know, would create a substantial risk of causing, death or serious bodily harm. The use of Deadly Force is justified only under conditions of extreme necessity as a last resort, when all lesser means have failed or cannot reasonably be employed. Deadly Force can only be employed under one or more of the following conditions:

Self defense or the defense of others.
Defense of assets involving national security.
Defense of assets not involving national security, but inherently dangerous to others.
Protection of public health or safety.

Prevention of serious offenses against persons.
Arrest or apprehension.
Criminal escapes.
Firearms, bladed weapons, explosives, and vehicles are among those weapons the use of which is considered deadly force.

"Use of deadly force" is often granted to police forces when the person or persons in question are believed to be an immediate danger to people around them. For example, an armed man in a shopping mall shooting at random without regard to the safety of the people around him, and refusing or being unwilling to negotiate, would likely warrant usage of deadly force, as a means to prevent further danger to the community. In the United States this is governed by Tennessee v. Garner, which said that "deadly force...may not be used unless necessary to prevent the escape and the officer has probable cause to believe that the suspect poses a significant threat of death or serious physical injury to the officer or others."
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Old 09-03-2009, 08:48 AM   #51
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Quote:
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all that said while you have a few minutes to sit here and think about it. the cop had seconds, maybe not even that to think about it. he used whatever tools he had at his disposal to stop someone in the direct commission of a felony.

the CHL law allows you to shoot someone for that doesn't it?
Right on. Im not saying the cop had it easy, and its not a job I envy. But its still their job that they choose to do. They've gotta do it right. They felt the need to end the chase, so be it. They are trained, not me. I can differ to those in the know. It just seems like too much to head-on ram a motorcycle.
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Old 09-03-2009, 08:49 AM   #52
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another youngin joins the fracus......lol
c'mon Racer, can we just talk about something without you resorting to labeling and the whole "holier than thou" routine?
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Old 09-03-2009, 08:51 AM   #53
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They felt the need to end the chase, so be it. It just seems like too much to head-on ram a motorcycle.
exactly. watch the video again, does it look like a high speed chase or just a guy not pulling over?
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Old 09-03-2009, 08:51 AM   #54
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Right on. Im not saying the cop had it easy, and its not a job I envy. But its still their job that they choose to do. They've gotta do it right. They felt the need to end the chase, so be it. They are trained, not me. I can differ to those in the know. It just seems like too much to head-on ram a motorcycle.
according to my last post... it's not
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Old 09-03-2009, 08:52 AM   #55
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ZeddXavier View Post
lol did you really look up my profile after i posted? or after i asked
before........


Quote:
Originally Posted by less_than_coop View Post
c'mon Racer, can we just talk about something without you resorting to labeling and the whole "holier than thou" routine?
lol as if anybodys mind is gonna change cuz of some i-net banter
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Old 09-03-2009, 08:53 AM   #56
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exactly. watch the video again, does it look like a high speed chase or just a guy not pulling over?
from what i can tell... since you don't have the whole video... he was not pulling over, but was accelerating hard out of that corner attempting to evade
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Last edited by sbfuller; 09-03-2009 at 08:56 AM.
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Old 09-03-2009, 08:55 AM   #57
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when a cop sees a drunk driver do they perform the pit? do they pull up next to him and shoot him in the face? do they tbone him?
yes, if they feel he is a danger to the public and it also depends on policy
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Old 09-03-2009, 08:56 AM   #58
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before........




lol as if anybodys mind is gonna change cuz of some i-net banter
You know Racer looked it up before, no need to ask. Ed is usually smart enough to do a little fact checking before he starts shooting his mouth off, you gotta give him that.


I said pretty much the same thing, that I know Im not going to change anyone's mind.
I just figured out a long time ago in life that when you resort to personal slights and attacks that it tends to detract from the point you were trying to make.

But then again...its the internet, and THIS IS SERIOUS BUSINESS PEOPLE!
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Old 09-03-2009, 08:57 AM   #59
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yes, if they feel he is a danger to the public and it also depends on policy
Yes, I will retract my "looks like attempted murder" comment as the officers were acting within the law. I just dont think they had to go that far, just my $.02
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Old 09-03-2009, 08:57 AM   #60
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I still haven't seen your response to this post...

http://www.motohouston.com/forums/sh...8&postcount=50
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