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Old 09-03-2009, 08:25 AM   #21
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While I have a great deal of respect for you Patrick, I have to disagree.
Yes, it is STUPID to run from the cops. You cant outrun a radio and you'll more than likely be caught. It is a dumb thing to do.
HOWEVER, I do not approve of the means by which the officers ended the pursuit. There was no restraint.
Just out of curiousity, would you approve of the cops just shooting the rider?
if he threatened their life, yes. how is a cop intentionally ramming a bike any different than that same bike accidentally hitting an innocent person? oh, that's right, no innocent people could be hurt or killed.
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Old 09-03-2009, 08:25 AM   #22
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and in FLA, guy ran from cops, cops crashed died, biker caught, charged and convicted of murder........society agree's, running = stupid.

live w/ your consequences.

the dividing lines seems to come w/ age, and wisdom
As for the FLA example, that is the way the laws are, I agree. If someone dies while you are commiting a felony you are charged with murder.
But that is the court's job to decide, not the cops.

If you want to talk about wisdom, I suggest you go back to 4th grade and learn about the 3 branches of government and how they apply.
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Old 09-03-2009, 08:27 AM   #23
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hint: when running, he's COMMITING A FELONY, vs judged to be committing.

do you whine when police use the PIT manuever on cars?

lets not forget fella's he's in lil California, austin.......lol
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Old 09-03-2009, 08:27 AM   #24
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if he threatened their life, yes. how is a cop intentionally ramming a bike any different than that same bike accidentally hitting an innocent person? oh, that's right, no innocent people could be hurt or killed.
I do see where youre coming from, but the cops lives were not being threatened.
However, your example proves my point. The motorcyclist is innocent until proven guilty in a court of law.
Thats the law, period. You all are so fond of citing laws and telling the world to abide by them, well there is one you have just choosed to ignore.
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Old 09-03-2009, 08:28 AM   #25
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He has allegedly committed a felony. Doesnt matter who saw him do it, cops, the governor, the president, sifu, anybody. It could be played on live TV, he is still innocent until proven guilty.
Well, had he shot at a cop and the cop shot back in self defense that would be one thing, and an acceptable thing.
But he wasnt shooting at the cop. The cop used leathal force nonetheless.
allegedly...gimme a break with that bull$hit. the cop saw him try to run. That is a felony, it's on video and the cop saw it happen. you and i both know he is guilty and would be convicted of that in a court. he may plead guilty to something less severe but who gives a $hit. the cop used his best judgement to end a chase that could have killed an innocent person and most likely wasn't going to kill the rider. i doubt the cop would have made the same decision if the bike was doing even 55mph. pull your head out of your a$$ and use the one brain cell that you haven't killed yet
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Old 09-03-2009, 08:30 AM   #26
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hint: when running, he's COMMITING A FELONY, vs judged to be committing.

do you whine when police use the PIT manuever on cars?

lets not forget fella's he's in lik California, austin.......lol
When he runs he is allegedly committing a felony. The courts make that decision, thats why they are there. Like it or not Ed, thats the law.

No, I do not disapprove of the PIT. The PIT has been evaluated, tested and imparted through training on police officers. They are shown the right way and the right circumstances in which to employ it. So...where's the training on how to ram someone head-on?
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Old 09-03-2009, 08:32 AM   #27
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i do prefer this crash though. but since he wasn't "convicted" then they shouldn't have done that huh?

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Old 09-03-2009, 08:32 AM   #28
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allegedly...gimme a break with that bull. the cop saw him try to run. That is a felony, it's on video and the cop saw it happen. you and i both know he is guilty and would be convicted of that in a court. he may plead guilty to something less severe but who gives a . the cop used his best judgement to end a chase that could have killed an innocent person and most likely wasn't going to kill the rider. i doubt the cop would have made the same decision if the bike was doing even 55mph. pull your head out of your a$$ and use the one brain cell that you haven't killed yet
I just dont see how y'all can be so infatuated with laws and people breaking them, but you just ignore the cornerstone that you are innocent until proven guilty.
That is a cornerstone of our judicial system. You cant pick and choose which laws you think are applicable.
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Old 09-03-2009, 08:33 AM   #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by less_than_coop View Post
While I have a great deal of respect for you Patrick, I have to disagree.
Yes, it is STUPID to run from the cops. You cant outrun a radio and you'll more than likely be caught. It is a dumb thing to do.
HOWEVER, I do not approve of the means by which the officers ended the pursuit. There was no restraint.
Just out of curiousity, would you approve of the cops just shooting the rider?
Depends, as a last resort to potentially save innocent bystanders, yep.
To just stop him from running, probably not.

If you break the law and run, you should understand that due to the circumstances of being on a single track vehicle, committing a felony, and it's happening at a high rate of speed, the potential for it not to end well is pretty high. You ACCEPT that risk when make the decision to run.


Look at it from this point of view, based on the acceptance of certain facts of the consequences of running, a person decides to run anyways.
From the cops point of view he has to ask why?
Did he just kill someone? Will he kill / harm an innocent bystander during the course of trying to evade?


Whose fault then is it; the person who runs or the cop that stops him, regardless of the tactics used?
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Old 09-03-2009, 08:33 AM   #30
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i do prefer this crash though. but since he wasn't "convicted" then they shouldn't have done that huh?

YouTube - motorcycle crash
No, they shouldnt have. There were so many other ways to have ended that. In that video, the cops controlled so much of the situation. They could have just put barely enough gas in the bike to get down the street and take the guy when it died.
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Old 09-03-2009, 08:34 AM   #31
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that dude got what was coming to him, and like stated above, if this was a car and the cop just blocked the car at that speed would any one give two ts ? nope. Just cause its a bike some people get all hurt. Its simple, you do the crime you do the time. And listen to the audio the guy says " Oh I have marijuana in my pocket" Come on poosy just take you probation and you wouldnt have gotten knocked down. Plus if he knew how to ride he would have seen that piggy and leaned to the right and got outta the way. squid>>
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Old 09-03-2009, 08:36 AM   #32
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Depends, as a last resort to potentially save innocent bystanders, yep.
To just stop him from running, probably not.

If you break the law and run, you should understand that due to the circumstances of being on a single track vehicle, committing a felony, and it's happening at a high rate of speed, the potential for it not to end well is pretty high. You ACCEPT that risk when make the decision to run.


Look at it from this point of view, based on the acceptance of certain facts of the consequences of running, a person decides to run anyways.
From the cops point of view he has to ask why?
Did he just kill someone? Will he kill / harm an innocent bystander during the course of trying to evade?


Whose fault then is it; the person who runs or the cop that stops him, regardless of the tactics used?
I do see what youre saying. My main point is that the police cannot just employ any means necessary to stop a runner. They have to show a great deal of restraint, which has gotta be so incredibly difficult.
Yes, this guy took matters into his own hands by running, yes it was stupid, yes he needed to be caught, but I do believe this was a chase of excessive force.
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Old 09-03-2009, 08:37 AM   #33
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im more interested in the fact that after they handcuff him they have him sitting upright after having a collision like that. shouldnt they still have had him laying down and not moving because of possible neck/spine injury? lawsuit waiting to happen all around no matter if you agree with them colliding into him like that
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Old 09-03-2009, 08:38 AM   #34
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Look, I know Im not going to change anyone's mind. So be it.
Just discussing the video and my opinion of what it shows.
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Old 09-03-2009, 08:38 AM   #35
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I just dont see how y'all can be so infatuated with laws and people breaking them, but you just ignore the cornerstone that you are innocent until proven guilty.
That is a cornerstone of our judicial system. You cant pick and choose which laws you think are applicable.
if a cop sees you committing a felony then i don't think there is a need for the court system except for determining prison sentence. hypothetically speaking here... what if a cop pulls up to a domestic disturbance call and sees a man beating his wife with a baseball bat, the guy continues beating her agaist all of the pleas of officers, so the cop shoots and kills the guy. would the cop be in the wrong for using deadly force to stop the guy from potentially killing a person?
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Old 09-03-2009, 08:38 AM   #36
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Quote:
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I just dont see how y'all can be so infatuated with laws and people breaking them, but you just ignore the cornerstone that you are innocent until proven guilty.
That is a cornerstone of our judicial system. You cant pick and choose which laws you think are applicable.
Let's discuss innocent till guilty.

A maniac pulls a gun and starts waving it around, pointing it indiscriminately at people and threatening to shoot them. The cops show up and he refuses to surrender his weapon, and points it at the cop. Should the cop shoot him?
Is the guy with the gun still "innocent" or has he committed a crime, and to prevent loss of innocent life his must be endangered, something he brought upon himself when he started waving the gun around.

By choosing to run, he just committed a crime, he is guilty, his actions going forward are endangering cops and innocent bystanders, it's no different.
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Old 09-03-2009, 08:39 AM   #37
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Old 09-03-2009, 08:40 AM   #38
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theres a difference between self defence and intentionally having a head on collision with a guy
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Old 09-03-2009, 08:40 AM   #39
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I do see what youre saying. My main point is that the police cannot just employ any means necessary to stop a runner. They have to show a great deal of restraint, which has gotta be so incredibly difficult.
Yes, this guy took matters into his own hands by running, yes it was stupid, yes he needed to be caught, but I do believe this was a chase of excessive force.
so what would have been non-excessive force? how would you stop a motorcycle that is running from you without putting innocent peoples lives at his mercy?
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Old 09-03-2009, 08:41 AM   #40
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even if it was a car, head on collision is not self defense
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