MotoHouston.com MotoHouston.com
Register Members List Member Map Media Calendar Garage Forum Home Mark Forums Read

Go Back   MotoHouston.com > General Discussion > General Discussion (Moto Related)
Forgot info?

Welcome to MotoHouston.com! You are currently viewing our forums as a guest which gives you limited access to the community. By joining our free community you will have access to great discounts from our sponsors, the ability to post topics, communicate privately with other members, respond to polls, upload content, free email, classifieds, and access many other special features. Registration is fast, simple and absolutely free, join our community!

Register Today!

If you have any problems with the registration process or your account login, please contact us.


FREE MH Decals by MAIL!

Advertisement

Reply
Share This Thread: 
Subscribe to this Thread Thread Tools
Old 08-18-2009, 02:38 PM   #21
dhdrider
Senior Member
 
dhdrider's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Austin, TX
Feedback Rating: (0)
Posts: 1,719


Bike(s):
08 KTM 300 XC-W









Quote:
Originally Posted by bluewave18 View Post
I would unplug the PC.
That's sort of what I was getting at with my comments about the PC ground wire. If you take the PC out of the loop and it is better, it does not gurantee you have a bad PC, it may be a bad ground conneciton for the PC.

But yes, removeing the PC from the picture is a quick way to rule it in/out as the culprit.
__________________
- Jason

2008 KTM 200 XC

Klim Technical Riding Gear
Maine Root Handcrafted Beverages
Retail Resource Group
Primus Real Estate Services
TORCS #301
TSCEC #1114
dhdrider is offline   Reply With Quote
Advertisement
Old 08-18-2009, 08:19 PM   #22
honorcode3
Member
 
Join Date: May 2009
Feedback Rating: (0)
Posts: 29












I called HoA and and talked to someone who then filed my case with a case manager. The case manager called over to the dealership and talked to the guy behind the service desk. He told her the bike runs perfect without the power commander. She called me and said that the guy behind the service desk said the bike runs perfectly without the power commander. I still have the voice mail on my phone where the service manager told me, "It won't be perfectly tuned, but it runs." Seems like I will have to be more enthusiastic about getting them to do the right thing.

So I decided to call another Houston Honda dealership today and get their opinion.

I talked to their service department and the guy told me they could use a sniffer in the exhaust pipe to check the air fuel ratio. He said it will probably be running rich which can cause miss fires and will clog up spark plugs. Does that sound correct?

If indeed taking off the power commander is only a temporary band-aid fix, I wouldn't consider the bike "fixed" by any means, only waiting to break down again. Should I accept the bike back like this after I was promised it would be fixed with no cost to me? (And my definition of fixed is running correctly, not running poorly and waiting to break down on me.)
honorcode3 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-18-2009, 08:38 PM   #23
1340HIGH
1340HIGH
 
1340HIGH's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: N.W.Houston Jersey Village
Feedback Rating: (0)
Posts: 529

Experience: 10+ years

Bike(s):
Harley FXDC
420 Honda Rancher ATV








Consider using a stock Air filter at least while you are trouble shooting.
I do no know your bike but you said choke so I assume its carburated.
The stock air cleaner will produce more vacuum in the intake than the KN this helps to get fuel pulled out of the bowl and into the intake, especially at low RPM or cranking speeds.

Good Luck
1340HIGH is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-18-2009, 08:52 PM   #24
1340HIGH
1340HIGH
 
1340HIGH's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: N.W.Houston Jersey Village
Feedback Rating: (0)
Posts: 529

Experience: 10+ years

Bike(s):
Harley FXDC
420 Honda Rancher ATV








Guess I was a bit drunk - you said Power Commander so must be FI
Air cleaner not that big of deal then.
1340HIGH is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-18-2009, 08:52 PM   #25
Japawhat02
02 Tona
 
Japawhat02's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: P-land
Feedback Rating: (1)
Posts: 6,939

Experience: 3 years
Trackdays: 3

Bike(s):
2002 Daytona









nope fuel injected. Just take the thing to Motorcycles Unlimited already....lol
__________________
2002 Brittish Rocket
Japawhat02 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-18-2009, 09:13 PM   #26
dhdrider
Senior Member
 
dhdrider's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Austin, TX
Feedback Rating: (0)
Posts: 1,719


Bike(s):
08 KTM 300 XC-W









Also, FYI, if you are looking for power, OEM RC51 air filters provide better power over BMC/K&N.
__________________
- Jason

2008 KTM 200 XC

Klim Technical Riding Gear
Maine Root Handcrafted Beverages
Retail Resource Group
Primus Real Estate Services
TORCS #301
TSCEC #1114
dhdrider is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-18-2009, 09:22 PM   #27
witchdoctor575
certified shutterbug
 
witchdoctor575's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Alvin
Feedback Rating: (11)
Posts: 23,547

Experience: 10+ years
Trackdays: 1

Bike(s):
07 triumph D675(sold)
05 busa LE (sold)
03 rc51 (sold)
99 superhawk (wrecked)
01 shadow 1100 (sold)

Member Garage





Quote:
Originally Posted by Japawhat02 View Post
nope fuel injected. Just take the thing to Motorcycles Unlimited already....lol
yes, rc51's are fuel injected
witchdoctor575 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-20-2009, 08:39 PM   #28
honorcode3
Member
 
Join Date: May 2009
Feedback Rating: (0)
Posts: 29












I'm buying a pclll and having them dyno tune the bike. I'm of course going to ask them for the dyno chart, but is there anything else I should ask for or ask them to do before they start tuning?
honorcode3 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-20-2009, 09:39 PM   #29
tomLSTD
LSTD Mob Cappo
 
tomLSTD's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Feedback Rating: (2)
Posts: 6,797

Experience: 1-3 months
Trackdays: 1






Member Garage





First, stop them and don't let them do the work. Call them, tell them "no thanks" and take the bike to a recommended shop with a dyno. I use Metric Motorcycles in the Heights, and it will be right when you get it back.

Also, there is no such thing as "it's on the leanest setting" or any other such thing with a Power Commander. A Power Commander changes the a/f for the entire rev range. Run away from a shop that tells you something like that.

As far as a dyno-graph goes, they can plug anyone's graph on your paper and say it's yours. Unless you are there while it's being done and watch it for yourself, you'll never know; hence the reason to take it to a reputable shop like NW Honda (if you have to go to a Honda shop) or Metric Motorcycles.

If you keep it at Brand X Houston Honda... it's a shoot. Maybe your bike will be in good shape after, maybe not.

Now if they're giving you a new PCIII and doing the work for free, that'd be hard to beat; but I doubt you're getting that.

Good luck whichever way you go.
__________________
I am Tyler Durdin's bad attitude.
tomLSTD is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-20-2009, 10:01 PM   #30
honorcode3
Member
 
Join Date: May 2009
Feedback Rating: (0)
Posts: 29












Quote:
Originally Posted by tomLSTD View Post
First, stop them and don't let them do the work. Call them, tell them "no thanks" and take the bike to a recommended shop with a dyno. I use Metric Motorcycles in the Heights, and it will be right when you get it back.

Also, there is no such thing as "it's on the leanest setting" or any other such thing with a Power Commander. A Power Commander changes the a/f for the entire rev range. Run away from a shop that tells you something like that.

As far as a dyno-graph goes, they can plug anyone's graph on your paper and say it's yours. Unless you are there while it's being done and watch it for yourself, you'll never know; hence the reason to take it to a reputable shop like NW Honda (if you have to go to a Honda shop) or Metric Motorcycles.

If you keep it at Brand X Houston Honda... it's a shoot. Maybe your bike will be in good shape after, maybe not.

Now if they're giving you a new PCIII and doing the work for free, that'd be hard to beat; but I doubt you're getting that.

Good luck whichever way you go.

Yeah, I know exactly what you're saying. The only thing I'm getting for free is the dyno tune. I'm buying the power commander and having it shipped to them. It's being done at Honda of Houston (290 and west road). If they it up I'll be sure to let you guys know. I already went back and confronted the service manager on fixing it. He promised to fix it and take care of charges up to having to replace the engine. When he said he could either take the power commander off and give it back to me running or I could buy a power commander and have him dyno tune it for free, I called HoA and Honda Northwest and they both said the ecu couldn't compensate for the air, the plugs would get fouled, yada yada and I would have problems down the road. The service manager at Honda of Houston said his definition of fixing it was getting it running good enough to get it out the door... The only thing I'm getting out of this is a dyno tune and lets hope it's a good one. Should I make sure I'm there for the dyno tune?
honorcode3 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-20-2009, 10:51 PM   #31
tomLSTD
LSTD Mob Cappo
 
tomLSTD's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Feedback Rating: (2)
Posts: 6,797

Experience: 1-3 months
Trackdays: 1






Member Garage





They won't let you in during the dyno runs. You probably wouldn't understand what you're looking at anyway.

Man, seriously, just tell them to forget it, take the bike back without your old PCII plugged in (just run it off your stock ECU), it won't hurt it. Take it to another shop.

I know Motorcycles Unlimited has happy customers with dyno-tuning, I have NEVER had an issue (along with tons of others) from Metric Motorcycles, and NW Honda will also do you right.

After the BS you went through already, you put up with too much IMHO. Of course that's with only knowing your side of the story too (not that you're lying, just saying). I would have shagged a long time ago and not paid for anything from the first encounter, but that's just me.
__________________
I am Tyler Durdin's bad attitude.
tomLSTD is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-20-2009, 11:09 PM   #32
Intermission
Pure Awesome
 
Intermission's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Sugar Land SS&M
Feedback Rating: (6)
Posts: 2,646

Experience: 4 years
Trackdays: 5

Bike(s):
2009 Kawasaki zx-6r
SOLD:2007 Kawasaki zx-6r
SOLD:1999 YZ-125
SOLD:2004 Can-o-Tuna

Member Garage


I didn't know Motorcycles Unlimited did dyno tunning.
Intermission is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-21-2009, 01:05 AM   #33
honorcode3
Member
 
Join Date: May 2009
Feedback Rating: (0)
Posts: 29












Quote:
Originally Posted by tomLSTD View Post
They won't let you in during the dyno runs. You probably wouldn't understand what you're looking at anyway.

Man, seriously, just tell them to forget it, take the bike back without your old PCII plugged in (just run it off your stock ECU), it won't hurt it. Take it to another shop.

I know Motorcycles Unlimited has happy customers with dyno-tuning, I have NEVER had an issue (along with tons of others) from Metric Motorcycles, and NW Honda will also do you right.

After the BS you went through already, you put up with too much IMHO. Of course that's with only knowing your side of the story too (not that you're lying, just saying). I would have shagged a long time ago and not paid for anything from the first encounter, but that's just me.
They have a waiting room with a glass window so you can watch them do the dyno pulls. There is no way I'm getting money back from this endeavor so I might as well get them to install the pclll for me and do some dyno runs. I'm leaving for Austin, TX Sunday morning to finish my last semester at UT, so I can't really be here to mess with this anyway. After HoH finishes I might go to one of the locations that you mentioned and let them do just like 1 or 2 pulls to make sure everything has been done correctly. I might just call HoA back or email them and see if they would let me swing by Northwest Honda and give me a free pull or two just to check the work that Honda of Houston has done (not really fair to Northwest Honda, but Honda should want to see satisfied customers and I know I would always use Northwest Honda again if they showed me they care about customer satisfaction). I want to believe that HoH isn't going to screw me over, but so far they are building themselves a poor reputation. I didn't have a problem paying to get it fixed correctly, that's why I took it to the dealership. I do have a problem with them not taking the time or consideration to properly do their job and then making promises that they don't keep. I'm sure a lot of people have come out of there satisfied, but they aren't doing a good job on me and that's all I know.
honorcode3 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-21-2009, 01:11 AM   #34
honorcode3
Member
 
Join Date: May 2009
Feedback Rating: (0)
Posts: 29












Oh yeah, is there a minimum number of dyno pulls that need to be done before a good tune can be had? I'm going to ask them for the final dyno chart and, assuming they give me my dyno chart and not someone else's, if it says something like 4 runs when it should say 10-15 I'll automatically know they are the most dreadful people on earth.
honorcode3 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-21-2009, 05:39 AM   #35
RACER X
what R you lookin' at?
 
RACER X's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Richmond, Tx
Feedback Rating: (26)
Posts: 33,485

Experience: 10+ years
Trackdays: 8

Bike(s):
'14 Honda GROM! 181cc of fury!!
'10 Aprilia Tuono Factory-SOLD
'08 Busa - sold
A few more bought
A few more sold






listen to Tom and alot of other's on here, and take it elsewhere, it's obvious you haven;t a clue (seeing what you bought as a first bike for starters) and all your doing is spending $ and not getting results, and the dealership knows it. who are you having to buy the PCIII from HoH? whats their price vs i-net? who's to say that you bring in the PCIII and they "tune" it, you still have bad results, then they can still blame the PCIII being bad? cuz you "know" they tuned it...........

Metric is not really that far from HoH and well worth the trip.
__________________
ΜΟΛΩΝ ΛΑΒΕ
2014 GROM
181cc's BABY!
Trump/Zimmerman 2016
Make America Great Again!
RACER X is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-21-2009, 08:10 AM   #36
dhdrider
Senior Member
 
dhdrider's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Austin, TX
Feedback Rating: (0)
Posts: 1,719


Bike(s):
08 KTM 300 XC-W









Quote:
Originally Posted by honorcode3 View Post
...I'm leaving for Austin, TX Sunday morning to finish my last semester at UT...
Even better. Bring it to Austin and let Johnny Cheese tune it. He is up in Pflugerville and is one of the best known Dyno Tuners out there.
http://austin.citysearch.com/profile...rformance.html
__________________
- Jason

2008 KTM 200 XC

Klim Technical Riding Gear
Maine Root Handcrafted Beverages
Retail Resource Group
Primus Real Estate Services
TORCS #301
TSCEC #1114
dhdrider is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-21-2009, 09:17 AM   #37
tomLSTD
LSTD Mob Cappo
 
tomLSTD's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Feedback Rating: (2)
Posts: 6,797

Experience: 1-3 months
Trackdays: 1






Member Garage





Quote:
Originally Posted by honorcode3 View Post
They have a waiting room with a glass window so you can watch them do the dyno pulls. There is no way I'm getting money back from this endeavor so I might as well get them to install the pclll for me and do some dyno runs. I'm leaving for Austin, TX Sunday morning to finish my last semester at UT, so I can't really be here to mess with this anyway. After HoH finishes I might go to one of the locations that you mentioned and let them do just like 1 or 2 pulls to make sure everything has been done correctly. I might just call HoA back or email them and see if they would let me swing by Northwest Honda and give me a free pull or two just to check the work that Honda of Houston has done (not really fair to Northwest Honda, but Honda should want to see satisfied customers and I know I would always use Northwest Honda again if they showed me they care about customer satisfaction). I want to believe that HoH isn't going to screw me over, but so far they are building themselves a poor reputation. I didn't have a problem paying to get it fixed correctly, that's why I took it to the dealership. I do have a problem with them not taking the time or consideration to properly do their job and then making promises that they don't keep. I'm sure a lot of people have come out of there satisfied, but they aren't doing a good job on me and that's all I know.
In the case of motorcycles, traditionally with difficult repairs (outside of tire changes, oil changes, etc), you're better off with a reputable shop outside of a dealership. It's never too late to get your money back! If Honda wants to make you happy (based off your comments it seems like corporate is working with you) they'll work with you on this.

I've had years of bad experiences with dealership service unfortunately- I've learned who I can trust and who I can't. Right now I can only think of one shop I can/do trust fully with my motorcycle- race bike, dirt bike or street.

Trust me, there is a way to get out of this and recoup some money. Don't "settle" for this solution because you're in a time crunch. Your bike WILL run on the stock ECU. It won't be optimized, and you could *possibly* lose some performance, but it's not going to eff anything up.

If you already bought the PCIII on-line, take delivery of it and send your bike to a reputable shop. If you're going to Austin I wouldn't hesitate at taking it to Johnny Cheese- even my dyno guy says he does good work!

Just a word to the wise, you could be setting yourself for disappointment here.

Quote:
Originally Posted by honorcode3 View Post
Oh yeah, is there a minimum number of dyno pulls that need to be done before a good tune can be had? I'm going to ask them for the final dyno chart and, assuming they give me my dyno chart and not someone else's, if it says something like 4 runs when it should say 10-15 I'll automatically know they are the most dreadful people on earth.
It won't tell you the number of pulls unless they put that info on there. All you'll see is a graph with your information on it.

They can print a dyno graph up with your information on it and someone else's graph. You'll never know if it's yours or not. I'm not saying they will do this, just that it's possible.

Good luck to you Sir
__________________
I am Tyler Durdin's bad attitude.
tomLSTD is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-21-2009, 01:23 PM   #38
Chubby Racer
The Confusion
 
Chubby Racer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: between a chair and a screen
Feedback Rating: (2)
Posts: 19,399

Experience: 8 years
Trackdays: 10+

Bike(s):
'07 R6
'02 KLX110(tarded)








Send a message via ICQ to Chubby Racer Send a message via AIM to Chubby Racer Send a message via MSN to Chubby Racer Send a message via Yahoo to Chubby Racer
Quote:
Originally Posted by honorcode3 View Post
I called HoA and Honda Northwest and they both said the ecu couldn't compensate for the air, the plugs would get fouled, yada yada
That right there is reason enough for me to believe that they don't know what they're talking about. Plugs foul when a bike runs too rich. A bike with a filter and pipe on stock tuning runs LEAN!
__________________
A motorcycle is a joy machine. It's a machine of wonders, a metal bird, a motorized prosthetic. It's light and dark and shiny and dirty and warm and cold lapping over each other; it's a conduit of grace, it's a catalyst for bonding the gritty and the holy.

CMRA #302
Chubby Racer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-21-2009, 02:10 PM   #39
tomLSTD
LSTD Mob Cappo
 
tomLSTD's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Feedback Rating: (2)
Posts: 6,797

Experience: 1-3 months
Trackdays: 1






Member Garage





Quote:
Originally Posted by po-po 5.0 View Post
That right there is reason enough for me to believe that they don't know what they're talking about. Plugs foul when a bike runs too rich. A bike with a filter and pipe on stock tuning runs LEAN!
With carburetors yeah, but with FI it could go lean, rich, or be just right.
__________________
I am Tyler Durdin's bad attitude.
tomLSTD is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-21-2009, 02:19 PM   #40
Chubby Racer
The Confusion
 
Chubby Racer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: between a chair and a screen
Feedback Rating: (2)
Posts: 19,399

Experience: 8 years
Trackdays: 10+

Bike(s):
'07 R6
'02 KLX110(tarded)








Send a message via ICQ to Chubby Racer Send a message via AIM to Chubby Racer Send a message via MSN to Chubby Racer Send a message via Yahoo to Chubby Racer
Quote:
Originally Posted by tomLSTD View Post
With carburetors yeah, but with FI it could go lean, rich, or be just right.
How? FI bikes are open loop. Basically you get the same amount of fuel at the same rpm and throttle opening. If you uncork the motor with a filter and exhaust, there's always going to be more air than the stock tune is expecting
__________________
A motorcycle is a joy machine. It's a machine of wonders, a metal bird, a motorized prosthetic. It's light and dark and shiny and dirty and warm and cold lapping over each other; it's a conduit of grace, it's a catalyst for bonding the gritty and the holy.

CMRA #302
Chubby Racer is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools

Advertisement


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 06:57 AM.


MotoHouston.com is not responsible for the content posted by users.
Privacy Policy