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Old 08-01-2009, 12:05 PM   #21
Patrick
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I think it is up to the rider to use the rear brake properly and when suited for a set riding style.
Yep.

I use my rear brake in conjunction with my front brakes.
Most of the top lever racers I know do as well.
You just have to modulate it, you can't just stomp on it and not expect it to lock up.
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Old 08-01-2009, 12:08 PM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by batman007 View Post
i think they already made it less powerful. its only one smaller disk brake in the back, compared to the two larger ones on the front tire... think of the consequences if you had the two large disks in the back!!
Mmm...even shorter braking distances when used properly...yeah - thats a bad thing...

Then there's the additional weight of a sprotor and caliper....

Personally I wouldn't mind having 2 and 2 - albeit smaller rotors with maybe only 2 or 4 piston calipers as opposed to the big dinner plates with 4 and 6 piston binders. But then again, I ride a ~900lb bike and rather like being able to haul it to a stop RFN when needed.
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Old 08-01-2009, 12:24 PM   #23
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Originally Posted by honorsdaddy View Post
Rear brake should be used along with the front whenever you're coming to a stop under normal street use. I seem to remember reading somewhere that under 15mph, you should be using the back brake near exclusively. Front is almost TOO strong at slow speeds.

If you're in the habit of never using the rear, this can be a VERY bad thing, as your first inclination will be to grab the front only in a panic situation. We all know that Mr. Front Brake is definitely not our friend if the bars are turned a bit and we also all know that cagers do really stupid all the time - especially in a corner.

Ride however ya want - and feel free to disregard the input of just some dumbass old guy on a Hardley who certainly cannot POSSIBLY know what he's talking about. Just offering the input of my experience.
We differ on opinion. There should be no fear of the front brake on a sport bike. Modulate it properly and there are no issues at high or low speeds. I too have thousands of miles on heavy bikes and agree that using both brakes is an asset in that circumstance.
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Old 08-01-2009, 12:36 PM   #24
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No it isn't too strong. Upgrade riding. Use both, helps you stop better and your front brakes will wear out less. It's pretty much common fukking sense, use both you stop faster. don't jam on the back and it won't lock up, don't grab the front in a corner, wet situations, offroad etc. Etc. Progressive pressure by YOU is what is key.
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Old 08-01-2009, 12:50 PM   #25
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I think your asking for a dummy proof design? Correct? IMO Engine braking is more than enough for the rear. The only time i use the back brake is when I dont want the front forks loaded when turning into a sketcy parking lot or space.....even then I modulate it or try to do a BMX powerslide hahaha
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Old 08-01-2009, 12:56 PM   #26
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Quote:
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We differ on opinion. There should be no fear of the front brake on a sport bike. Modulate it properly and there are no issues at high or low speeds. I too have thousands of miles on heavy bikes and agree that using both brakes is an asset in that circumstance.
I didnt say you should fear it, merely respect it.

The back brake is there for a reason. If it was unnecessary, I'm pretty sure the manufacturers would drop it, reduce the weight and improve the performance.

We're going to have to agree to disagree. You're welcome to believe it is only needed on the heavier bikes. I, however, will continue to accept the facts of vehicle dynamics and my understanding of physics to recognize its use on every motorcycle regardless of weight.

I'd even go so far as to say it is MORE necessary on a lighter bike to keep the rear planted. Weight transfer and all that. I CANT do an endo on my bike no matter how hard i try. The basic suspension geometry of the bike wont allow it. However, its pretty easy to do one on a sport bike - that really should give you a clue.
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Old 08-01-2009, 12:57 PM   #27
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This is going to sound so elementary to some, but just in case...here's what I know...i think

The rear brake locks up so easily if and when you're hard on the front brakes. When braking hard with the front, the bike's weight has shifted forward...the front suspension is squashed and in some situations, the rear tire is nearly being lifted off the ground...(a few feet off the ground if stunting). Now that being known...think of how easy it would be to tap the back brake pedal and bring the rear wheel to a hault. Instantaneous lockage! The trick is to apply the brakes at the same time...otherwise, if you're already hard on the front brakes...that may be all you have...forget the rear.
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Old 08-01-2009, 01:06 PM   #28
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I use both brakes, and have panic-locked the rear up once. Its up to you to adjust and train to use the bike as delivered - not gimp its safety equipment.

Britt
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Old 08-01-2009, 01:22 PM   #29
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I didnt say you should fear it, merely respect it.

The back brake is there for a reason. If it was unnecessary, I'm pretty sure the manufacturers would drop it, reduce the weight and improve the performance.

We're going to have to agree to disagree. You're welcome to believe it is only needed on the heavier bikes. I, however, will continue to accept the facts of vehicle dynamics and my understanding of physics to recognize its use on every motorcycle regardless of weight.

I'd even go so far as to say it is[B] MORE necessary[/B] on a lighter bike to keep the rear planted. Weight transfer and all that. I CANT do an endo on my bike no matter how hard i try. The basic suspension geometry of the bike wont allow it. However, its pretty easy to do one on a sport bike - that really should give you a clue.
Sorry, just not buying it. When hard on the brakes the rear of a sport bike is unloaded, therefore the rear brake offers almost no stopping power since it is virtually in the air. As such, I fail to see how this is an example of why to use the rear brake.

And, I never said the rear brake was useless. I said I use the rear brake under certain conditions such as very slippery roads - typically wet or roads with a ton of gravel. And, of course, when venturing off the racing surface on a track.

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Old 08-01-2009, 01:39 PM   #30
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A couple of years ago I would never use my rear brake. Now on the other hand I am always using it to help slow me down. If used properly it is very effective
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Old 08-01-2009, 02:26 PM   #31
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i use engine braking everywhere. no real need for brakes if you ask me
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Old 08-01-2009, 04:21 PM   #32
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The rear brake on my street bike is numb and it has ABS front and rear. I can panic all I want. I generally don't use it outside of parking lots, slow turns and emergency situations. By the way I really like ABS on a street bike, in an emergency (the only time it comes into play) you can just nail em both and concentrate on other matters at hand.
If it weren't for tec inspection and running off, I'd have no use for a rear brake on the track.
On my mini (where nobody tells me what to do) when it leaked, I removed it.
As for the OP's and others comments I can see all sides to this argument. I mean why have one brake that will lock up so much easier than the other? On the other hand it's hard to imagine manufactures downgrading brakes in the interest of safety. I'd agree that lowering the pedal and maybe using some really crappy pads on the rear would take away from the disparity between the two.
I always like he rear brake topic.....so many differing opinions.
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Old 08-01-2009, 05:14 PM   #33
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Geometry is basically the only element that plays a role in rear brake effectiveness. The rear brake is effective when used properly. Most people that are new to riding believe that it is not because they are always told to never use it. A seasoned rider will stop in shorter distances using the back brake properly as opposed to only using the front. If the rear tire is in contact with the ground while the back brake is used, it is contributing to the reaction force that the ground provides.

Cliffnotes: The back brake is effective. Enable it by buying the rider mod at sportbiketrackgear.com
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Old 08-01-2009, 05:23 PM   #34
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well i dont think making the brakes weaker is a good idea lol...

but i have heard alot of people upgrade the front, but not the back (for example with steel lines) for the basic reasons you mention...so maybe that sort of answers the question for you.
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Old 08-01-2009, 05:48 PM   #35
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While they at reducing the power of the rear brake, bike companies need to reduce the power to the throttle as well. My liter bike just wants to come up every time I twist the throttle.

Maybe, I should just turn it slowly or brake lightly.
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Old 08-01-2009, 05:58 PM   #36
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this thread reminds me of the guy telling sloblack to run 42 psi in his tires. lol
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Old 08-01-2009, 06:07 PM   #37
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Just get one of these and the braking takes care of itself

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Old 08-01-2009, 06:40 PM   #38
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Old 08-01-2009, 06:54 PM   #39
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I may be a n00b, but I recall learning in MSF that the rear brakes and front brakes should nearly always be used consecutively. I always use front and rear brakes together but balance the bias myself according to the situation, which is mostly 80/20. As Honorsdaddy said, its a good habit to form because when you need it, you will know how to operate full braking.

I also have been in the habit of engine braking, mostly for break in (new bike), but also so I can learn to modulate this on conjunction with f/r brakes. It's very nice to have full control (of sorts) of the braking power of a bike.
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Old 08-01-2009, 06:56 PM   #40
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It makes me cringe when I read about people who have had a collision with a car or other solid object when, in their description, they talk about locking up the rear. No mention of front brake, just the rear... and boom a collision.
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