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Old 07-25-2009, 11:35 AM   #21
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I weight 180 without gear and I raced on stock suspension on a 06 gsxr 750. I am too slow or maybe I am that good that I can control the bike on stock suspension.
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Old 07-25-2009, 12:52 PM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tomLSTD View Post
Yeah, but "no aftermarket suspension" can mean lots of things... I'd be shocked (pun intended...) if they didn't do shim stack, spring, valving, and fluid mods/ swaps and other cartridge work with stock components. If that is the case then their suspension is really not "stock".

I think the OP is talking about a suspension that has the factory springs/ cartridge components/ fluid, etc.

To the OP, I seem to remember Garreth Spear racing on a stock suspension for quite a while as did Alonzo Contreras. Both of those guys were rippin' it up very well.

As stated before though, each rider is unique in regard to skill and ability to control the motorcycle, so those guys may be anomalies.

Personally, I haven't raced/ ridden track on a stock suspension since the late 80's (and looking back, boy was that an experience by comparison). I really love the way a well tuned and built suspension works. Modern talented builders can do some amazing things- my bike's suspension seems to get better the faster I go and as mentioned, what a confidence builder that is.

I've also ridden on friend's bikes (like a Daytona 675 and a 600RR, as well as a few Duc's and Ape's but I don't really call their Ohlins a "stock" suspension) with stock suspensions and they performed extremely well. Mark Niemi's '09 ZX5R was one of the most amazing bikes I've ever ridden in stock form! There is no doubt that these days stock suspension technology has grown by leaps and bounds to the point that you can near take them off the showroom and take them to the grid.

Standard OE forks and fork internals Tom and standard OE rear shock.
Riders could fine tune within the standard adjustment parameters

R6 Cup action


Entry which included bike, tyres, fuel, crash damage etc was approx $25k from memory.

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Old 07-25-2009, 02:27 PM   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Grinchy View Post
Standard OE forks and fork internals Tom and standard OE rear shock.
Riders could fine tune within the standard adjustment parameters
Yeah man, I guess what I was trying to get across is that there are some masterful folks out there who can build some fantastic suspensions from OE parts. Changing the shim stacks, modifying the valves, experimenting with fluid viscosity, they can make some great performers with OE stuff.

My forks and shock are OE and my builder built them up to work as well as my Ohlins shock and Traxxion cartridges did on my last bike. Fantastic results using stock parts! Not to mention I saved a bunch of cabbage...

Sounds like a great series for WSBK to pick up for entry level riders trying to break out! Is GB still holding this series?
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Old 07-25-2009, 03:32 PM   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tomLSTD View Post
Yeah man, I guess what I was trying to get across is that there are some masterful folks out there who can build some fantastic suspensions from OE parts. Changing the shim stacks, modifying the valves, experimenting with fluid viscosity, they can make some great performers with OE stuff.
My forks and shock are OE and my builder built them up to work as well as my Ohlins shock and Traxxion cartridges did on my last bike. Fantastic results using stock parts! Not to mention I saved a bunch of cabbage...

Sounds like a great series for WSBK to pick up for entry level riders trying to break out! Is GB still holding this series?
I hear you, know a couple myself but the R6 Cup bikes were kept and maintained/serviced/prepared by Yamaha/Virgin/Rob Mac so the rider never got to take them home. He would turn up on a Friday, do the pracctice then give the bike back until qualifying the next day etc.
A great formula that brought some real talent into the limelight.
Sadly the R6 Cup is no more, a sign of the economic downturn I fear.
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Old 07-25-2009, 03:47 PM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Grinchy View Post
I hear you, know a couple myself but the R6 Cup bikes were kept and maintained/serviced/prepared by Yamaha/Virgin/Rob Mac so the rider never got to take them home. He would turn up on a Friday, do the pracctice then give the bike back until qualifying the next day etc.
A great formula that brought some real talent into the limelight.
Sadly the R6 Cup is no more, a sign of the economic downturn I fear.
Fantastic! That's probably the only way you can keep controls in place.
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Old 07-25-2009, 04:05 PM   #26
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Different fluid than from the showroom floor.
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Old 07-25-2009, 05:13 PM   #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cdill35 View Post
yup. on an 05 R6. Then it became a safety issue for me.
Interesting. I guess the R6 is just sprung for a heavier rider. I swear to gixxer front ends are sprung for a 160 lb rider in full gear.
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Old 07-25-2009, 11:46 PM   #28
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Originally Posted by po-po 5.0 View Post
Interesting. I guess the R6 is just sprung for a heavier rider. I swear to gixxer front ends are sprung for a 160 lb rider in full gear.
Depends on the year. An '06-newer GSXR is sprung at 1kg and that's good for 200#+. A lot of suspension doods believe that the springs are inferior though and not a consistent rate throughout compression/ decompression. I've seen some tests that "prove" that is true, but I don't know that it's true for all stock springs though.

For me, RaceTech calls for a 1kg spring on my '06 GSXR and that's what comes stock, so theoretically I could have just stayed with stock.
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Old 07-26-2009, 12:45 AM   #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tomLSTD View Post
Fantastic! That's probably the only way you can keep controls in place.
It worked extremely well but larger framed riders (notice how I worded that Tom ) were at a real disadvantage because of it.
In 5 years I don't think I ever saw a rider over 160lbs!, most were around the 140-150 mark.
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Old 07-26-2009, 12:52 AM   #30
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It worked extremely well but larger framed riders (notice how I worded that Tom ) were at a real disadvantage because of it.
In 5 years I don't think I ever saw a rider over 160lbs!, most were around the 140-150 mark.
Fo sho, us big boys gotsta have special treatment! I've not ridden an R6 in a long time, but I have ridden the late model 600RR, ZX6R and GSXR600 and those were great on the track in stock form.

Of course, at the pace those guys were riding, that extra 10-20 pounds of weight was a big detriment if they wanted to run up front!

Everyone should be petite like me.

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Old 07-26-2009, 12:54 AM   #31
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Originally Posted by tomLSTD View Post
Fo sho, us big boys gotsta have special treatment! I've not ridden an R6 in a long time, but I have ridden the late model 600RR, ZX6R and GSXR600 and those were great on the track in stock form.

Of course, at the pace those guys were riding, that extra 10-20 pounds of weight was a big detriment if they wanted to run up front!

Everyone should be petite like me.

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Old 07-26-2009, 09:26 AM   #32
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great info
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Old 07-26-2009, 09:32 AM   #33
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That's a prety open ended question with a lot of variables for most people.
What does each individual racer weigh?
How close to "optimum" is their bikes stock set up for their weight?
What's their riding style? i.e. smooth on the throttle, hard on the brakes, etc.?
How old is the suspension with how much wear?

Lastly, how does YOUR bike feel to YOU?

Is it misbehaving in any manner? Do you feel like it's holding you back?

IMO, ANYONE can benefit from upgraded suspension.
That, tires and brakes are the best upgrades you can make to a track bike.
It's one less variable to concentrate on while learning to go faster.

The best you know is the best you've ridden.
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Old 07-26-2009, 09:33 AM   #34
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Jason you puss, you missed an awesome day yesterday... You have alot of ground to make up now woman. Better get some new suspension
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Old 07-26-2009, 09:42 AM   #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Patrick View Post
That's a prety open ended question with a lot of variables for most people.
What does each individual racer weigh?
How close to "optimum" is their bikes stock set up for their weight?
What's their riding style? i.e. smooth on the throttle, hard on the brakes, etc.?
How old is the suspension with how much wear?

Lastly, how does YOUR bike feel to YOU?

Is it misbehaving in any manner? Do you feel like it's holding you back?

IMO, ANYONE can benefit from upgraded suspension.
That, tires and brakes are the best upgrades you can make to a track bike.
It's one less variable to concentrate on while learning to go faster.

The best you know is the best you've ridden.
and that's why i ask, because so far so good. but i'm not near my goal of being "fast". so at the moment my stock will do. i don't feel like it's holding me back yet. i feel confident on it.

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Jason you puss, you missed an awesome day yesterday... You have alot of ground to make up now woman. Better get some new suspension
start up a thread of ur day brosef, i'm curious to hear about it
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Old 07-26-2009, 09:43 AM   #36
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I don't race nor have I ever done a track day, that being said here is what I've experienced and what I've learned.

You can reap the benefits at a cost. Stock suspension once dialed in usually is enough for most riders. Once you start approaching the limitations of the stock suspension then it is time to start looking at upgrades. IMO, you should change one small thing at a time to really learn what it is impacting. Tomlstd had a good idea reconfiguring/machining stock parts to improve, it is not only cheaper but you can change just one or two things at a time. To get the feel you want. I wouldn't really spend tons of coin on an upgrade until you have reached the suspensions limitations then I'd start small.
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Old 07-26-2009, 09:45 AM   #37
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I don't race nor have I ever done a track day, that being said here is what I've experienced and what I've learned.

You can reap the benefits at a cost. Stock suspension once dialed in usually is enough for most riders. Once you start approaching the limitations of the stock suspension then it is time to start looking at upgrades. IMO, you should change one small thing at a time to really learn what it is impacting. Tomlstd had a good idea reconfiguring/machining stock parts to improve, it is not only cheaper but you can change just one or two things at a time. To get the feel you want. I wouldn't really spend tons of coin on an upgrade until you have reached the suspensions limitations then I'd start small.
that's where i'm at now. i feel like it's ok for the time being. as i get faster and push harder, i think i'll then, look into upgrading my suspension.
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Old 07-26-2009, 09:51 AM   #38
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Quote:
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that's where i'm at now. i feel like it's ok for the time being. as i get faster and push harder, i think i'll then, look into upgrading my suspension.
As long as you are confident, but not overconfident, on it I think you'll be okay. Of course everyone loves shiny fun new parts
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Old 07-26-2009, 09:55 AM   #39
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As long as you are confident, but not overconfident, on it I think you'll be okay. Of course everyone loves shiny fun new parts
lol, i'm guilty of that
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Old 07-26-2009, 11:20 AM   #40
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Last edited by cdill35; 07-26-2009 at 11:21 AM. Reason: nevermind...might cause a ruckus. :D
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