MotoHouston.com MotoHouston.com
Register Members List Member Map Media Calendar Garage Forum Home Mark Forums Read

Go Back   MotoHouston.com > General Discussion > General Discussion (Moto Related)
Forgot info?

Welcome to MotoHouston.com! You are currently viewing our forums as a guest which gives you limited access to the community. By joining our free community you will have access to great discounts from our sponsors, the ability to post topics, communicate privately with other members, respond to polls, upload content, free email, classifieds, and access many other special features. Registration is fast, simple and absolutely free, join our community!

Register Today!

If you have any problems with the registration process or your account login, please contact us.


Like us on Facebook! Regular shirt GIVEAWAYS and more

Advertisement

Reply
Share This Thread: 
Subscribe to this Thread Thread Tools
Old 07-23-2009, 08:51 AM   #21
Patrick
Motorcycles Unlimited
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Houston
Feedback Rating: (2)
Posts: 16,367

Experience: 10+ years
Trackdays: 10+

Bike(s):
'14 Speed Triple R, '82 CB900F, '13 Streetglide






There's many variables when it comes to dyno charts; correction factor, heat / humidity that day, gear the pull was made in, etc.

I typically recommend using the same dyno / operator. Especially when wanting to do before and after comparisons.

FWIW, my old 929, with Akra pipe, all the mods you mentioned and Erion cams made 142 rwhp on HOH's dyno back when they were still in town.
__________________
Call or PM for the BEST PRICES in Houston for PARTS and ACCESSORIES.
MAKE SURE TO MENTION YOU'RE ON MH TO GET THE BEST PRICE!

NEED GEAR? We have a great selection in stock but if we need to order it we GUARANTEE FIT!
Where Houston riders go to have their bikes worked on, done right the first time!


muad

1964 FM 1960 West
Houston, TX 77090
Hours: Tues.-Fri. 9:30-6:00 Sat. 9-5:30
www.motorcycles-unlimited.com
http://www.facebook.com/motorcyclesunlimited
e-mail: patrick@motorcycles-unlimited.com
Patrick is offline   Reply With Quote
Similar Topics
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Suprised or Unsupervised? dbuck Off Topic 4 12-09-2013 11:22 AM
DYNO CRAZY_ZX14 Off Topic 7 05-03-2013 02:05 PM
Dyno DownAz Nephew General Discussion (Moto Related) 11 04-12-2011 09:27 AM
I'm suprised I remembered my password after this long... R.J. Off Topic 8 05-24-2007 11:23 PM
Advertisement
Old 07-23-2009, 09:06 AM   #22
BigMike0147
Senior Member
 
BigMike0147's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Angleton
Feedback Rating: (1)
Posts: 216

Experience: 3 years

Bike(s):
2000 CBR929RR









Yeah, I thought about maybe doing cams down the line, but I wasn't too sure. I'm sure it would be hard to find some. Thanks for your input though.

It's pretty well known now that different dynos yield different numbers, but I was just throwing my experience out there to give it some factual numbers. People always say that, but never give the numbers to prove it.
BigMike0147 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-23-2009, 09:07 AM   #23
ZXALAN
UR NXT
 
ZXALAN's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: League City Tx
Feedback Rating: (1)
Posts: 4,254

Experience: 10+ years

Bike(s):
2000 Turbo-Hayabusa
2013 BMW S1000RR








Quote:
Originally Posted by tomLSTD View Post
Man, first those estimated numbers seem aweful high from a 929. Those bikes were not exactly powerful... with a tune and the parts listed, I would expect about 130hp personally. 140hp is reaching the numbers of a later model GSXR1000, and the 929 was nowhere near that power iirc.

A lot of tuners will argue that the eddy current dyno gives "true" hp, not the "corrected" hp of the others; but that's another thread/ subject.
A quick Google found me at least 10 threads/pics of 929s making 127-132hp stock on various message boards with real shops doing the dyno pulls, not just magazine BS dynos....I even saw a couple making in the 140s with pipes and tunes.....One 929 Erion edition made 169hp with a slip on and a 40 shot.

even the old 93-98 CBR900RRs would make 115+hp to the wheels on a Dynojet dyno.

Granted 130hp is weak sauce by todays standards but for a 1999-2001 bike, not too bad. My 01 GSXR1000 only made 140 at Tejas' Motorsports and 142 at Johnny Cheese's when it was bone stock. Not that much more then the 929s/954s.
__________________

319hp@14lbs(pump gas), 435hp@29lbs(race gas)
Texas Mile Mar 09, 225.906mph, 8.82@168.43 w/1.63 60'-14.5lbs
ZXALAN is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-23-2009, 09:20 AM   #24
kawasakijockey
Crotchrocket Scientist
 
kawasakijockey's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: lumberton tx
Feedback Rating: (0)
Posts: 400

Experience: 10+ years
Trackdays: 10+

Bike(s):
2007 zx14
2002 cbr954
1977 kz1000







Quote:
Originally Posted by ZXALAN View Post
A quick Google found me at least 10 threads/pics of 929s making 127-132hp stock on various message boards with real shops doing the dyno pulls, not just magazine BS dynos....I even saw a couple making in the 140s with pipes and tunes.....One 929 Erion edition made 169hp with a slip on and a 40 shot.

even the old 93-98 CBR900RRs would make 115+hp to the wheels on a Dynojet dyno.

Granted 130hp is weak sauce by todays standards but for a 1999-2001 bike, not too bad. My 01 GSXR1000 only made 140 at Tejas' Motorsports and 142 at Johnny Cheese's when it was bone stock. Not that much more then the 929s/954s.
You are pretty much dead on with all those numbers. There were alot of weak dyno readings from 929s and 954s when dynoed with low miles. 929s were as low as 123 and 954s down to 128. It took anywhere from 4-6k miles to loosen them up and they were picking up from 6 to 10hp. Honda built them extremely tight. My well broken in 954 was no match after 4th gear when running an 01 Gix1000 with equal sized riders.
kawasakijockey is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-23-2009, 09:24 AM   #25
BigMike0147
Senior Member
 
BigMike0147's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Angleton
Feedback Rating: (1)
Posts: 216

Experience: 3 years

Bike(s):
2000 CBR929RR









Thanks for the responses guys.
BigMike0147 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-23-2009, 09:46 AM   #26
tomLSTD
LSTD Mob Cappo
 
tomLSTD's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Feedback Rating: (2)
Posts: 6,797

Experience: 1-3 months
Trackdays: 1






Member Garage





Quote:
Originally Posted by BigMike0147 View Post
If the opprotunity ever arises to put my bike back on the other dynojet for a fair price, then I'll probably do that to see if anything has changed.
That's the thing though- it doesn't matter if you have a tuner that uses a Dynojet or not, it's that you use the same tuner with the same dyno.

Personally, I think that a good tune on a bike after mods is invaluable. The problem is that I can count (easily) on one hand the number of actual "good" tuners I can think of, especially in this area. Funny thing is that everyone with a dyno at their shop automatically becomes an "expert" It's almost funny the amount of folks that think they're getting something good for their bike only to find out later that they got screwed.

So do yall's homework and use a reputable tuner that has a consistent report of good feedback from those that have used them consistently. Folks who race (drag race or roadrace) are usually exceptionally good sources of information with regard to this. Not to mention a lot of them have used folks that did a shoddy job of dyno-tuning and can tell you who to stay away from too.

I've heard that Patrick at Motorcycles Unlimited does a good job with tuning, which wouldn't be a surprise since they do most everything good
__________________
I am Tyler Durdin's bad attitude.
tomLSTD is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-23-2009, 12:40 PM   #27
BigMike0147
Senior Member
 
BigMike0147's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Angleton
Feedback Rating: (1)
Posts: 216

Experience: 3 years

Bike(s):
2000 CBR929RR









Man, it's hard to get a solid point across on the internet. LOL

The reason why I would take my bike back to the "higher" dynojet dyno is because I would just want to see how it compared to my previous run. If I ever needed actual tuning then I would go back to the "lower" dyno for that as the tuner is more reputable.

I did my homework on the forum and looked through at least 5-10 different threads before I chose who I had work on my bike. I do most of my own work if it's feasible because I know no one will take care of my stuff like I will. There have been quite a few of "I need advice, looking for a dyno" type threads. I went with the name that popped up the most often and had the most information written about them. And that's who I'm going to stick with for all of my tuning.
BigMike0147 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-23-2009, 06:26 PM   #28
tomLSTD
LSTD Mob Cappo
 
tomLSTD's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Feedback Rating: (2)
Posts: 6,797

Experience: 1-3 months
Trackdays: 1






Member Garage





Quote:
Originally Posted by ZXALAN View Post
A quick Google found me at least 10 threads/pics of 929s making 127-132hp stock on various message boards with real shops doing the dyno pulls, not just magazine BS dynos....I even saw a couple making in the 140s with pipes and tunes.....One 929 Erion edition made 169hp with a slip on and a 40 shot.

even the old 93-98 CBR900RRs would make 115+hp to the wheels on a Dynojet dyno.

Granted 130hp is weak sauce by todays standards but for a 1999-2001 bike, not too bad. My 01 GSXR1000 only made 140 at Tejas' Motorsports and 142 at Johnny Cheese's when it was bone stock. Not that much more then the 929s/954s.
, that is surprising given their performance at the track. They did well with the Pro-Honda teams (like Erion), but most of the rest of them were pitiful by comparison.

I wasn't meaning to compare them to like an '06 or newer bike, I was talking about in comparison to similar bikes of similar genre.

Sounds like you have your ducks in a row there Mike, good luck with your continued mods
__________________
I am Tyler Durdin's bad attitude.
tomLSTD is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-23-2009, 08:27 PM   #29
kawasakijockey
Crotchrocket Scientist
 
kawasakijockey's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: lumberton tx
Feedback Rating: (0)
Posts: 400

Experience: 10+ years
Trackdays: 10+

Bike(s):
2007 zx14
2002 cbr954
1977 kz1000







I had a talk with the guys at Erion in 04 about the kind of power they were getting out of the 929 and 954. 160 to 170hp max where the Suzukis were at 180-190hp. Jake Zemke did well for what he had to work with. The 929 didnt do too bad as Ty Howard set at least one lap record on one at TWS (Texas World Speedway). Maybe somewhere else too but I really dont know.
kawasakijockey is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-23-2009, 09:58 PM   #30
tomLSTD
LSTD Mob Cappo
 
tomLSTD's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Feedback Rating: (2)
Posts: 6,797

Experience: 1-3 months
Trackdays: 1






Member Garage





Quote:
Originally Posted by kawasakijockey View Post
I had a talk with the guys at Erion in 04 about the kind of power they were getting out of the 929 and 954. 160 to 170hp max where the Suzukis were at 180-190hp. Jake Zemke did well for what he had to work with. The 929 didnt do too bad as Ty Howard set at least one lap record on one at TWS (Texas World Speedway). Maybe somewhere else too but I really dont know.
Ty Howard could set a lap record at TWS (Texas World Speedway) on a 600 back then (and I'm not sure he didn't...).

Are you talking about when he was racing with Annandale?

Regardless, the 929's were (in the racing world) pretty gutless by comparison. A shame too because I thought they handled fantastic. Pro Honda saw a lot of success with the 929 and 954, but that was about the extent of it.

Now, all that said, I thought the 929's were one of the most beautiful and great handling bikes during that time Not to mention they sounded NASTY and MEAN.

Man, this got off topic...
__________________
I am Tyler Durdin's bad attitude.
tomLSTD is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-24-2009, 07:28 AM   #31
BigMike0147
Senior Member
 
BigMike0147's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Angleton
Feedback Rating: (1)
Posts: 216

Experience: 3 years

Bike(s):
2000 CBR929RR









Well, even though it got off topic, it was nice to hear some kind words about my old bike!!

Thanks everyone for all of the posts. MH has a lot of knowledgable people!!
BigMike0147 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-08-2009, 04:52 PM   #32
marc99
Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Feedback Rating: (0)
Posts: 1












EC997 Dyne System

Quote:
Most common bike dynos are Dynojets(DJ250i is the preferred), Superflow, Factory Pro EC997a. Both the Superflow and Factory Pro will read lower then the DJ just to start....Then once you get into correction factors, smoothing, dyno room setup (fans, ventilation, ambient/humidity etc) and ofcourse all the other mechanical factors, you can have huge discrepencies when dynoing.....
Basically, the EC997's and Superflows will read about the same in Steady State testing. They will both natively read "True" hp.
The EC997's don't have any obvious methods for displaying higher numbers in Steady State.
On the Superflows and some other dynos, there is a "math channel" for inflating the True HP into "something like" a dynojet hp number. According to them, it's accurate to +/- 10% to DJHP. So - that might explain why Motorcyclist / Sportrider's HP numbers are sometimes a bit "happy". :-)

A possible, and rather deep source of different HP readings (besides deliberate number manipulation) results from the "amount" and "type" of load applied to the engine. We are talking about 2% to 5% differences.

In a Steady State test, being a teeny bit on the lean side (like 1/2 of a main jet's worth of fuel, aka insignificant) won't hurt the power more than like .1% to .2% in Steady State. But - take that same bike and run it in a dynojet style, 8 second Sweep Test and that slight leanness, that you would never feel in the real world, will kill power.
On the other hand, on an EC997 or Superflow, in a Steady State test, a bit of excess richness will kill power, especially after the power peak.
That sometimes explains why people lean out dj "Best Power" maps at the track.

Quote:
a low rear tire can cost you 2-3hp alone.
Oddly, you'd think that a softer tire (like 27 psi) would have better traction than 35 psi.... But I did do some loaded Sweep Tests with 50, 45, 40, 35, 30 and 25. Except for the 25, they were within 1% to 2%. The 25 psi lost power - I think because the sidewall wrinkled under full load.

There IS potentially a 5% difference in different brands of roadrace tires, though!

On a DJ style Sweep, a lighter tire will make more power, because it's less mass to accelerate.
On an EC997, in Steady State, the mass of the wheel isn't a factor - as there's no acceleration factor in power calculations.

Quote:
For actual tuning, any dyno with a Eddy Current brake (load brake) and a GOOD sniffer with a competent tuner will work.
Andy uses a $7000 high speed 4 gas EGA - most every other dyno uses a $50 O2 sensor. There's a critical amount of difference in the information provided for the tuner.
Quote:
Andy at Metric Cycles has a great dyno room setup, Andy is great at tuning and his dyno is a true load brake dyno, all of these equal a great tune.....
I always say that Andy has the shop that I always wanted to work at!

Quote:
BUT his "Superflow" software will give you low #s....
Ouch......

Quote:
.Doesn't matter though....dyno there for the baseline, then measure the gains after tuning.... GAINS = GAINS..... Plain and simple.
Yep!

Marc

Marc Salvisberg
EC997 Dyne Systems
marc99 is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools

Advertisement


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 01:22 PM.


MotoHouston.com is not responsible for the content posted by users.
Privacy Policy