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Old 07-10-2009, 08:03 PM   #61
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I am about 6'3" and I love my VFR. A bit larger than most, comfortable, powerful and, HONDA. It is my first street bike and I had very little ridiing experience, it scared me a few times (mainly the weight) but it really comes down to the rider. Even if you get the ninja first I would recomend the VFR for a next step.
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Old 07-10-2009, 08:04 PM   #62
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Ninja 650R.
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Old 07-10-2009, 08:12 PM   #63
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I can't believe this argument has started again.

Dude, just go buy whatever you want. There is no such thing as a beginner bike. The idea of too much power is ludicrous.
The bike is a machine, it will do what you tell it to. A ninja 250 will splatter you on the side of a bread truck just as easy as a turbo busa... if you are a dumbass.
Get the gear, take some training and respect your bike.

2 pieces of advice:
Always ride like you are invisible (they always say, "He came out of nowhere, I didn't even see him")
Always remember this aint a video game, if you crash it will hurt. If you are lucky, you won't die.
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Old 07-10-2009, 08:13 PM   #64
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I agree with the other guys. It all comes down responsiblity. Get what you want. If you want to start riding imediatly buy your gear then get what you can. You can always save up while your learning on the ninja, when you decide what to get and have the cash sell the ninja. POOF you happy.
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Old 07-10-2009, 08:20 PM   #65
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bumblebee View Post
There is no such thing as a beginner bike. The idea of too much power is ludicrous.
The bike is a machine, it will do what you tell it to. A ninja 250 will splatter you on the side of a bread truck just as easy as a turbo busa... if you are a dumbass.
Get the gear, take some training and respect your bike.
Thank you someone for saying this.
It doesn't say anywhere in this study that the BIKE caused an accident.


INFO ON STUDY OF MOTORCYCLE ACCIDENTS:
1. Approximately three-fourths of these motorcycle accidents involved collision with another vehicle, which was most usually a passenger automobile.

2. Approximately one-fourth of these motorcycle accidents were single vehicle accidents involving the motorcycle colliding with the roadway or some fixed object in the environment.

3. Vehicle failure accounted for less than 3% of these motorcycle accidents, and most of those were single vehicle accidents where control was lost due to a puncture flat.

4. In the single vehicle accidents, motorcycle rider error was present as the accident precipitating factor in about two-thirds of the cases, with the typical error being a slide out and fall due to over braking or running wide on a curve due to excess speed or under-cornering.

SOURCE:
"Motorcycle Accident Cause Factors and Identification of Countermeasures," was a study conducted by the University of Southern California, with funds from the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration, researcher Harry Hurt investigated nearly every aspect of 900 motorcycle accidents in the Los Angeles area. Additionally, Hurt and his staff analyzed 3,600 motorcycle traffic accident reports in the same geographic area.
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Old 07-10-2009, 10:19 PM   #66
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I think what Chris and Ed are getting at is the High performance sport bikes out there will get you into trouble MUCH quicker then a lower performance SV or 250.

WHEN you make a mistake what is going to be more forgiving a 250 or a 1000.

WHEN you make this mistake what is going to cost you the most to fix the 250 or the 1000.

Learn on something that has more room for error then get yourself onto something that will push your limits more. In the end its up to you what you get just understand what your doing. Also plan for being able to fix it if you do happen to have a get off.
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Old 07-10-2009, 11:54 PM   #67
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Even the most responsible people can get jolted.

Its not the wringing it out to 150+mph that'll get a new rider in trouble so much as the: Going around a traffic corner and hitting a rock or something, If your right hand isn't completely steady, on a liter bike your most likely in a ditch, On a 250, you can most likely recover.

Seat time is the only way to grow the nerves.
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Old 07-11-2009, 02:30 AM   #68
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ducoop View Post
WHEN you make a mistake what is going to be more forgiving a 250 or a 1000.
Neither. Hitting a cement barrier @ 60mph on a 250 or 1000 will hurt the same, that is the point....
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Old 07-11-2009, 02:36 AM   #69
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TomballD View Post
Get yourself an older enduro, I started on a tw200 for example. You can pick them up cheap and learn to ride dirt and street at the same time. Its amazing what learning to ride in the dirt can teach you about street riding, ie. emergency braking, sliding, cornering and all that. Plus if you drop it it doesn't really matter, and they run forever. I got a 99 DR350 for 2k in mint condition. There are tons of xr250's, klr400&650s out there just find one on Craigslist. Plus you can wheelie the out of them when you get better,and if the cops are after you you can bust into the woods or many bayous. Just my opinion but they are all around bad bikes. I sold my stunter for an enduro and ride it everyday.
I love my DR650. Sumo FTW. Where are you at in tomball? I am in willowbrook.
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Old 07-11-2009, 06:14 AM   #70
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buy a yz,rm,cr,kx 125 wreck the out if it in the woods where you'll be safer learing clutch and throttle control< them start learinig about weaving through traffic on a street bike after beibg comfotable on a bike period
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Old 07-11-2009, 07:28 AM   #71
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Good thing we are in America... all of those other stupid countries have displacement restrictions and you have to start on a 125 or 250 and then
graduate to larger displacement machines... stupid fools....

Turbo Busa with NOS is the only way to fly!
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Old 07-11-2009, 07:31 AM   #72
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Old 07-11-2009, 11:24 AM   #73
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cedestech View Post
Good thing we are in America... all of those other stupid countries have displacement restrictions and you have to start on a 125 or 250 and then
graduate to larger displacement machines... stupid fools....

Turbo Busa with NOS is the only way to fly!
Which countries are those?

The Phillipines are the only country with a restriction of 400cc or less on tollways with less than 3 years of experience.

In Hong Kong and Japan, since April of 2005, have placed a MINIMUM CC RESTRICTION on the motorcycles allowed on expressways.
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Old 07-11-2009, 01:31 PM   #74
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TXZixxer View Post
Neither. Hitting a cement barrier @ 60mph on a 250 or 1000 will hurt the same, that is the point....
here is your answer and the point I'm getting at.



Even the most responsible people can get jolted.

Its not the wringing it out to 150+mph that'll get a new rider in trouble so much as the: Going around a traffic corner and hitting a rock or something, If your right hand isn't completely steady, on a liter bike your most likely in a ditch, On a 250, you can most likely recover.

Seat time is the only way to grow the nerves.
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Old 07-11-2009, 02:17 PM   #75
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ducoop View Post
here is your answer and the point I'm getting at.

Even the most responsible people can get jolted.
Right. So what difference is getting hit by a F-350 on a 250 or 1000 with no experience or 10 years?
Nothing.

You are focused on a single situation of a bad throttle control movement.
Not the complete picture of riding.

Like said before, it doesn't matter what kind of bike it is. They're machines (250/1000), they both have the potential to kill you EQUALLY. Rider experience/awareness/respect on the certain machine tips the scale.
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Old 07-11-2009, 02:34 PM   #76
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TXZixxer View Post
Which countries are those?

The Phillipines are the only country with a restriction of 400cc or less on tollways with less than 3 years of experience.


http://www.msgroup.org/forums/mtt/to...16&whichpage=1

In Hong Kong and Japan, since April of 2005, have placed a MINIMUM CC RESTRICTION on the motorcycles allowed on expressways.
The tiered motorcycle license systems in the UK and in Australia utilize both an experience (number of years) restriction and a horsepower (or cc to weight ratio) restriction.

The UK system is explained here, and the Australian (Queensland) system here. In addition the European Union has come up with a new tiered licensing system which all 27 countries will utilize, and which is supposed to be completely phased in by 2033. It too, utilizes both experience and motorcycle restrictions.

I'm not personally aware of any tiered motorcycle license systems which utilize only experience restrictions, or only motorcycle restrictions. Other members here may be.

http://www.granbymotors.co.uk/licence.php
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Old 07-11-2009, 02:35 PM   #77
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UK:

To ride a motorcycle on the road you must:
* Be at least 17 years old (16 for a moped)
* Have a driving licence which allows you to ride motorcycles (category A)


That licence can be any of the following:
* A provisional driving licence with motorcycle entitlement
* Full car licence. This automatically provides provisional motorcycle entitlement
* Full motorcycle licence
* Full moped licence. This provides automatic provisional motorcycle entitlement if you're aged 17 years or over


Provisional motorcycle entitlement entitles learners to ride a motorcycle:
* Up to 125cc
* With a maximum power output of 11kW (14.6bhp)

Learners who wish to ride a side-car outfit can do so with a power to weight ratio not exceeding 0.16kW/kg.
If you're not sure about any of this then you can get further advice from us or your trainer.


With provisional motorcycle entitlement you must not:
* Ride on motorways
* Carry a pillion passenger
* Ride without L-plates (or D-plates in Wales)


Two year limit
Provisional motorcycle licences used to have a life of 2 years. But as from 1st February 2001, motorcycle licensing rules were changed. All new provisional licences showing motorcycle entitlement issued from that date are valid until the holder's 70th birthday.

Holders of the old licences can apply to have the licence replaced with one that will include provisional motorcycle entitlement valid to age 70. Replacement licences should be applied for from DVLA using the normal application forms (available from Post Offices).

Existing motorcycle provisional licence holders who do not pass a motorcycle test before their provisional licence expires are NOT now subject to the 12 month wait before they can get new entitlement.



How to get a licence
If you don't already have a licence with provisional motorcycle entitlement then collect a D1 form ( driving licence application ) and a D750 form ( photocard application ) from a Post Office or from DVLA ( 0870 240 0009 ). Complete the forms and send them to the Driver and Vehicle Licensing Centre ( DVLC ) at Swansea.

All provisional licences now automatically include motorcycle entitlement but some post offices are still issuing the old application forms, on which you had to tick the 'with motorcycles' box to get learner motorcycle entitlement included.

If you want to ride a motorcycle you can ignore this section of the application form or you can tick it 'just to make sure'!



Compulsory Basic Training (CBT) All learner motorcyclists and moped riders must complete CBT before riding on the road unless they:
* Passed a full moped test after 1 December 1990
* Live and ride on specified offshore islands
* Already hold a Certificate of Completion (DL196) obtained during a previous motorcycle entitlement or when riding a moped
* Intend to ride a moped and passed the car tests before 1st Feb 2001

When you've completed CBT you'll be given a DL196. You must produce this before you can take the practical motorcycle test.

A DL196 has a 2 year life. If you don't pass both your theory and practical tests in that time then you'll have to take the CBT course again.

A DL196 obtained on a moped is valid for a motorcycle when the rider reaches the age of 17.



Types of full Licence There are three types of full motorcycle licences to aim for:

1. Category P - Moped

2. Category A1 - Light Motorcycle Licence - to receive this you must take and pass your test on a motorcycle with
* an engine size over 75cc but not more than 125cc
* a power output of not more than 11kW (14.6 bhp)
* a maximum speed of not more than 100 kph (62.5 mph)

You will now have full licence entitlement on any motorcycle up to 125cc and with a power output of up to 11kW (14.6 bhp). This licence is intended for riders of C90s and similar who don't intend to ride anything bigger. It will not become an unrestricted category A licence after two years. If you take a test on a C90 or similar then you will have to take another test to ride anything bigger than a 125cc, 11kW bike with a maximum speed of over 100kph (62.5mph).

3. Category A - Standard Motorcycle Licence - (aka A2) - this is what you'll obtain if you pass your test on a motorcycle over 120cc but not over 125cc and is capable of more than 100 kph (62.5mph). With this licence you are entitled to ride a motorcycle up to 25kW (33 bhp) and a power to weight ratio not exceeding 0.16kw/kg.

There is no restriction on engine size (cc) so you can now ride a bike bigger than a 125cc. There are plenty of bikes around in the 125cc to 400cc range that produce no more than 25kW (33bhp) - ask your local dealer. You can ride a bike with a power output over 25kW but you'll need a restrictor kit on it to restrict the power output to 25kW. Any good motorcycle mechanic will fit a restrictor for you and give you the necessary documentation. Your insurance will cost more though because insurance companies tend to disregard restrictors.


So does this mean that you're going to have to buy a 14.6bhp, 125cc bike to learn and practice and take your test on then sell it and buy a 33bhp, bigger than 125cc bike after passing the test to take full advantage of what you're allowed to ride? Well, some do and some don't. What most people do (the under 21 year olds usually) is one of the following two options:

1. Do the CBT, buy a 14.6bhp, 125cc bike and get a bit of practice on the road with L plates, then go back to the training centre to do some pre-test training which is not compulsory but most advisable. Then they take and pass (hopefully) the tests and sell or trade in their 125cc, 14.6 bhp bike and get a 400cc (or any size they want), 33bhp bike or over 33bhp and have a restrictor kit put on it for about £150. After 2 years they can ride a bike over 33bhp.

Granby Motors offers a range of low-cost, brand new 125cc motorcycles and we're glad to take your old bike in part exchange when you decide to trade up.

2. They skip the practising on the roads with L plates bit. They just do CBT, pre-test training and test within a couple of weeks all on the training centre's bike. Then, if they pass the test first time, they buy a 400cc (or any size) bike up to 33bhp or over 33bhp and have a restrictor kit put on it. Most under 21s choose a 400cc rather than a 600cc or more as the insurance is much lower.

After two years you may ride any size and power of motorcycle without taking another test.

If you're 21 or over or, if you reach 21 within the 2 year period there are quicker ways of obtaining entitlement to ride a more powerful bike: The Direct Access Scheme (DAS) and the Accelerated Access Scheme (AAS).

If you pass your practical test on an automatic motorcycle, your licence will be restricted to automatic bikes only.



Vehicle Documentation The Registration Document (VRD)
This contains details of your motorcycle:
* Make and model
* Year of first registration
* Engine size and number

It also gives your name and address.

If you buy a new motorcycle, the dealer will register it with the DVLA. A registration document will then be sent directly to you from the DVLA.

If you buy a second-hand one you'll receive the VRD from the seller. Fill in the "Change of ownership" section and send it to the DVLA at the address given on the document. You should do this immediately as it is an offence not to notify the DVLA.


Vehicle Excise Duty
Also known as the 'vehicle licence' or 'road tax'. You must display a 'tax disc' on the vehicle.
You can get the vehicle licence application form at any post office and most main post offices can accept your application.

The fee varies with engine size. The classes are:

* Not over 150cc £15.00
* Over 150cc up to 400cc £32.00
* Over 400cc up to 600cc £47.00
* All other motorcycles £64.00


When you apply to renew your vehicle excise licence you must produce:
* A vehicle test certificate (MOT) if your motorcycle is three years old and over
* A valid certificate of insurance
* An excise licence renewal form


Older motorcycles
Motorcycles registered before 1st of January 1973 are exempt from tax but should display a tax free (historic) disc.
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Old 07-11-2009, 02:35 PM   #78
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The vehicle test certificate (MOT)
The MOT test applies to all motorcycles, mopeds and scooters over 3 years old. The test must be carried out every year at an appointed vehicle testing station.

The purpose of the test is to check that your motorcycle is road-worthy. When your machine passes the test, you'll be given a vehicle test certificate which you need to produce when you renew your vehicle excise licence.

If your motorcycle fails the test, you must not ride it on the road unless you're taking it to have the faults corrected or unless you're taking it for an arranged retest.


Insurance
It's illegal to ride without insurance. Before you take a motorcycle onto public roads you must get proper insurance cover.

Insurance costs depend mostly on your age, the size of the bike and the area, in which you live. Check our Links section for motorcycle insurers.


Types of insurance
Third party - This is the cheapest and legal minimum type of insurance cover. The 'third party' is any person you might injure or property you might damage. You aren't covered for injury to yourself or damage to your motorcycle. If you damage a car the owner could claim against you. Or, if someone damaged your motorcycle you could claim against them.

Third Party Fire and Theft - The same as third party but it also covers you for your motorcycle being stolen or damaged by fire.

Comprehensive - This is the best but most expensive insurance. Apart from covering other people and property from injury and damage this covers:
* Damage to your machine
* Replacement of parts damaged in an accident
* Personal injury to yourself

Pillion passenger insurance - All policies used to automatically include cover for a pillion passenger but now you can decide whether to have that cover included or not. You can, apparently, save up to 10% by not taking out cover for a pillion passenger and, of course, never carrying one.


The cost of insurance
This varies with:
* Your age - the younger you are, the more it will cost
* The make of your motorcycle
* The power and capacity of the engine
* Where you live

Engine-size groups for insurance purposes can vary from one insurer to another so it pays to shop around.

Exactly what is and what isn't covered can vary from company to company so always check the small print and ask your insurer or broker.

You'll often have to pay the first £50 - £200 of any claim. This is called the 'excess'.


The certificate of insurance
This is a short and simple document which certifies:

* Who is insured
* The type vehicle covered
* The kind of insurance cover
* The period of cover
* The main conditions

Sometimes a broker will give you a temporary certificate or 'cover note'. This is issued as proof of insurance while you're waiting for your certificate.

Keep the cetificate safe and produce it:
* If the police ask you
* When you apply to renew your vehicle excise licence


The policy document
This contains the full details of the contract between you and the insurance company. It's usually written in legal language. Ask your broker or the insurance company to explain any details you don't understand.


Protective Equipment
By law, you must wear a safety helmet when riding a motorcycle on the road. All helmets sold in the UK must:
* Carry a BSI kitemark
* Comply with British Standard BS 6658 or the newer UN ECE 22.05 mark of approval

Though not prescribed by law, additional personal protection is recommended. At the minimum a pair of good quality gloves is essential and lightweight, modern textile jackets are breathable and offer excellent additional protection - it's no longer necessary to look like you stepped off the set of Easy Rider!!
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Old 07-11-2009, 02:35 PM   #79
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I cut and paste all that only to find tiatool did it at the same time...

damit.

Last edited by cedestech; 07-11-2009 at 02:38 PM.
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Old 07-11-2009, 02:39 PM   #80
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FWIW, Japan and most other "modern" contries all have tiered licensing also.

Eff that, this is the USA, turbo busa's for everyone!
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