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Old 07-06-2009, 10:07 PM   #1
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engine brake in ? why ?

ok i know what the books tell you and i know the discution has been post over and over !

my question now is why?

i have been watching the twist the throtle shows on dis hd , and it seams like all the bike builders now adays run the engines on dynos and the bike also after its build , so why worry about the break in if they have already dynoed it up the redline ex!

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Old 07-06-2009, 10:10 PM   #2
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triumphs are delivered dry. gotta seat the rings.
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Old 07-06-2009, 10:17 PM   #3
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the first 100 miles is important. i ride it like i stole it the whole time...if the motor is gonna blow i'd rather it do it while it's under warranty.
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Old 07-06-2009, 10:26 PM   #4
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yea i know what people say and all that but if they are going to run it like they do on a dyno at the factory , why would they tell you to keep it under 5000rpm and so on,

from the looks of the videos thay sow the rings are seated , i mean they run this thing like it has miles on it ,

any way my to cents !
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Old 07-06-2009, 10:51 PM   #5
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It probably varies from mfr to mfr but often the engines they dyno test like you describe are test engines.
They do it to test limits on RPM, load, duration etc.
I think the engines they put in bikes are only started and tuned then shoved out the door.
They really don't have the time to do extensive dyno test on each one and why would they?

Always follow the mfr break-in, the idea of riding it hard from the beginning is a bad idea. They been building them things for decades and they don't make those reccomendations just to torture us.
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Old 07-06-2009, 11:00 PM   #6
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I would guess that the metal parts need to set in, as they are not perfect and friction does occur. You would want to let them brake in under lower stress conditions.
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Old 07-07-2009, 03:16 AM   #7
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It probably varies from mfr to mfr but often the engines they dyno test like you describe are test engines.
They do it to test limits on RPM, load, duration etc.
I think the engines they put in bikes are only started and tuned then shoved out the door.
They really don't have the time to do extensive dyno test on each one and why would they?

Always follow the mfr break-in, the idea of riding it hard from the beginning is a bad idea. They been building them things for decades and they don't make those reccomendations just to torture us.
No they seriously start the thing for the first time and warm it up on the dyno.....I watched some of the twist the throttle shows too and it said for the Kawi's every single one of them has its own performance log and dyno sheet stored away just in case something happened to it and they had to look it up......

I know cars better than I do bikes but I know when you have a race motor built for your car you dont have to break in , just heat cycle it a few times and its done. After the dyno you change the oil and whatever else then its game time. They might indeed have a good reason why you should break it in but honestly if they are building race motors for these bikes I dont know. I would definatly take it easy the first 100 or so miles then change the oil just in case but thats just me.....It may just be a liability thing so they can cover their if anything happens.
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Old 07-07-2009, 03:19 AM   #8
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This is one of the greatest reads ever on the subject:

http://www.mototuneusa.com/break_in_secrets.htm
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Old 07-07-2009, 04:53 AM   #9
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Originally Posted by 306 That Could View Post
No they seriously start the thing for the first time and warm it up on the dyno.....I watched some of the twist the throttle shows too and it said for the Kawi's every single one of them has its own performance log and dyno sheet stored away just in case something happened to it and they had to look it up......

I know cars better than I do bikes but I know when you have a race motor built for your car you dont have to break in , just heat cycle it a few times and its done. After the dyno you change the oil and whatever else then its game time. They might indeed have a good reason why you should break it in but honestly if they are building race motors for these bikes I dont know. I would definatly take it easy the first 100 or so miles then change the oil just in case but thats just me.....It may just be a liability thing so they can cover their if anything happens.
yep all i ever do is ride it up and down the rpms for the first 100 miles, i dont stay at one rpm for too long, after 100 miles change the oil(get a magnetic oil plug) and filter then change it again at 500 miles and the again at 1000 miles, then every 2000 miles on the street change the oil and filter

might be an over kill but works for me...and all you want is for the piston rings to seat properly
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Old 07-07-2009, 05:43 AM   #10
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when the run it up it's for a very very short time, then they get off it vs miles and miles of high speed runnin.
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Old 07-07-2009, 05:46 AM   #11
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New motor = Bang on it in moderation.

With modern machining technology and heat treating processes the window of opportunity for seating rings has changed drastically.

A fresh cylinder bore with modern machining standards and the latest and greatest of metallurgy means "seat time" a.k.a. "break in" time is virtually nothing.

Back in the day when engines were manufactured, built, and tested it was common knowledge that easy does it makes a good motor. Fine and dandy with a hand ground hatch, .020 tolerance on ring gap, and lithium grease on everything for expansion purposes.

Today's motors are built for top performance. That being said, blow some cylinder pressure past the rings.... HARD!!! Force the rings away from the piston into the wall as early as possible. The finer the hone, the less ring wearing resistance you have during those first critical moments of a motor's life. I completely agree with the theory of seating the rings all the way around as hard as possible. This method will only help the rings find "their groove" so to speak. The more compression you can force the rings to hold back, the better.

Ride the thing like you stole it, from day one and beyond.
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Old 07-07-2009, 06:51 AM   #12
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Shitcha boy......
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Old 07-07-2009, 07:43 AM   #13
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Use the search feature here. Its been discussed many many many of times.
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Old 07-07-2009, 10:42 AM   #14
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Quote:
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This is one of the greatest reads ever on the subject:

http://www.mototuneusa.com/break_in_secrets.htm
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Old 07-07-2009, 11:06 AM   #15
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Breakin-oils help considerably. But if you do not remove those oils progressive damage can occur.
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Old 07-07-2009, 11:17 AM   #16
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I know cars better than I do bikes but I know when you have a race motor built for your car you dont have to break in , just heat cycle it a few times and its done.

and whats the life expectancy of a "race" motor?
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Old 07-07-2009, 06:59 PM   #17
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and whats the life expectancy of a "race" motor?
Thats impossible to answer because the definition of a race motor is different in everyones eyes. I was referring to drag racing motors or motors meant for extreme power. Others might think a race motor is a nascar type engine or it could be a factory motor designed for the track like the ZR1 or Z06 corvette. In the case I was talking about (drag racing) most engines dont last very long mostly because of the extreme power these things put out (anywhere from 1000 hp and up) and the owner trying to push the boundries of peak power and detonation. However, a 500+whp Heads cam 427 in the Z06 will last 100k+ miles and run 10's if you dont add a power adder. So it all depends really on your application.

The thing I find most different about car motors and bike motors is when it comes to cars most everyone is drastically trying to boost power output and you dont see that very much with bikes. Im talking about most everyday people. You dont see very many people putting turbos and nitrous kits on their bikes and I know why. They have plenty of usable power already. Apparently few people in the car scene are happy with the power output of their cars......me being one of them. You always seem to want more, its addicting almost.
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Old 07-07-2009, 07:38 PM   #18
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BMW's formula engine is good for nearly one race, then its scrapped.

During the e60 M5 class we are given very limited specs and the opportunity to see it at the Centrum from a distance. I have the specs at work but I believe the v10 idled around 9krpms and redlined close to 19k. The headers glowed red during the warm up phase at idle, yellow/red when at redline.
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Old 07-07-2009, 07:50 PM   #19
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Quote:
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No they seriously start the thing for the first time and warm it up on the dyno.....I watched some of the twist the throttle shows too and it said for the Kawi's every single one of them has its own performance log and dyno sheet stored away just in case something happened to it and they had to look it up.......
Yes, that's true but starting on a dyno and doing a couple of pulls is not the same as "riding it like you stole it" from day one. Sure, there is a liability issue at work, but, think about this;
They would be most likely to suggest a certain break in procedure to reduce their liability. Less liability would indicate better more reliable performance for the life of the engine.
So, by breaking it in as suggested, you would have the best chance of a good experience.
I suppose if you are only going to keep the bike for a year or two it won't matter but the next guy suffers for your lack of doing the right thing.

Quote:
I know cars better than I do bikes but I know when you have a race motor built for your car you dont have to break in , just heat cycle it a few times and its done.
Race motors, generally are going to get torn down and rebuilt more often than a street motor used on daily.
A modern bike should be able to go 100,000 miles with only routine maintenance, if it was broke in right.
Do it wrong and it could become a POS after 30,000. Most of us don't keep bikes that long, but what do you gain?
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Old 07-07-2009, 08:17 PM   #20
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many of the early breakin reasons were for the flat tappet cams and high tension rings, as mentioned earlier metallurgy has changed a ton as well.
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