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Old 03-21-2008, 10:09 AM   #21
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I think it's cut and dry, if a person runs, the cops should not be responsible for what the law breaker does. The responsibility lies on the shoulders of the idiot who thought running was a good idea in the first place.
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Old 03-21-2008, 10:57 AM   #22
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DUN DUN DUUUUUNNNNN

truth hurts.

?

Doesn't hurt me. A runner deserves what he gets. If someone kills other motorists while fleeing the police they should go to jail for a long time.

On the other hand if a cop runs a corner wide while chasing a suspect and kills someone, I think that falls on the cop's shoulders, not the suspect's. The cop is supposed to be the responsible party and shouldn't get in over their head. I get tired of the excuse that the perp. is responsible for the actions of the police during the chase.

Cops can be overzealous in their tactics too.
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Old 03-21-2008, 11:17 AM   #23
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Old 03-21-2008, 11:20 AM   #24
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?

Doesn't hurt me. A runner deserves what he gets. If someone kills other motorists while fleeing the police they should go to jail for a long time.

On the other hand if a cop runs a corner wide while chasing a suspect and kills someone, I think that falls on the cop's shoulders, not the suspect's. The cop is supposed to be the responsible party and shouldn't get in over their head. I get tired of the excuse that the perp. is responsible for the actions of the police during the chase.

Cops can be overzealous in their tactics too.
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Old 03-21-2008, 11:34 AM   #25
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well I am sure that most of you are going to disagree , but here it goes.

I think it is the officer's fault. It actully looks like the cops was the one in middle of the road, like he want to cut of the suspect.
Granted, the guy should of stoped but either way I dont think that you should get in the middle of the road to slow down a kid on a bike
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Old 03-21-2008, 11:39 AM   #26
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Old 03-21-2008, 11:55 AM   #27
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well I am sure that most of you are going to disagree , but here it goes.

I think it is the officer's fault. It actully looks like the cops was the one in middle of the road, like he want to cut of the suspect.
Granted, the guy should of stoped but either way I dont think that you should get in the middle of the road to slow down a kid on a bike
Who knows where the cruiser was when the bike hit it. It looks like a pretty violent collision that may have resulted in the cruiser coming to rest in a different place from where the initial impact occured.

You're right though, it should never be allowed to hit a biker as a means of ending the pursuit - I think that equates to deadly force and the same rules governing the use of deadly force by police in other instances should come into play during pursuits.

If the cop wouldn't be justified in shooting the rider off of his bike then he shouldn't be justified in ramming them either.
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Old 03-21-2008, 12:04 PM   #28
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why "run" for anything less.
I see your point, but there have to be fairly innocuous reasons for running: the rider simply reacts (immature or not too bright) then is too afraid to stop because a routine ticket is now something worse, it's a kid out past curfew or one who's not supposed to be out on the bike, someone recently lost a job/is low on funds and thinks that the ticket/insurance cost is too much to bear, a general excess of testosterone, etc. I'm not advocating running, but I think there are other reasons, besides criminal behaviour, that explain why folks run.

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. and if the wreckless driving person just so happens to be running from the scene of a "serious" crime? the cops should be psychic enough to know?
This is just a question of curiosity. On average, I wonder how many sportbike riders use their bikes to commit a serious crime and what types of crimes they commit. Yesterday I stopped at a gas station to buy a soda and was too lazy to take my gear off. I wondered whether the poor attendant was concerned that I was coming in to rob him since I kept my helmet on as well.
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Old 03-21-2008, 12:08 PM   #29
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Old 03-21-2008, 12:40 PM   #30
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Who knows where the cruiser was when the bike hit it. It looks like a pretty violent collision that may have resulted in the cruiser coming to rest in a different place from where the initial impact occured.

You're right though, it should never be allowed to hit a biker as a means of ending the pursuit - I think that equates to deadly force and the same rules governing the use of deadly force by police in other instances should come into play during pursuits.

If the cop wouldn't be justified in shooting the rider off of his bike then he shouldn't be justified in ramming them either.
Thats kind of what I was getting at earlier. I heard recently some police were held accountable(out on the NE coast, like Jersey or something) for pursuing a reckless driver which ended in a pretty bad accident, I think another civilian was the casualty though and thats why it got so much media attention.

Also I remember in Spain where some guy was holding people hostage at a hotel with a hand grenade, and tried to escape on a sport bike (gxr 750 i think). The cops pulled out in front of him in an intersection and basically caused him to t-bone them and messed him up a bit, didn't kill him. I realize that is totally different from just taking off when you see lights in the mirror, but I feel the same methods shouldn't be used to resolve both situations.
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Old 03-21-2008, 09:22 PM   #31
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It wasn't a prolonged police chase, which is evident by looking at the time on the dash cam from start to impact. We're talkin 3 minutes.

Furthermore, there's no way of telling from this dash cam, what the other trooper did. What is pretty clear is that the runners were riding at a very high rate of speed, and being that they were on motorcycles, it's almost impossible for the cop who got hit to judge just how fast they were coming at him (closing speed is a b*tch).
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Old 03-21-2008, 09:33 PM   #32
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Quote:
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no one should run from the cops

and, many chases shoyuld've nver continue from the cops side...IMHO, if it's s bank robber, rapist, etc..yeah, chase him down, but, if it's a traffic violation get the chopper on his and let him have it afterwards. I kow some people here may say "but he was riding so fast he endangered everyone around him' That I understand, but by chasing him in a patrol car the perp will get faster, and more reckles.
How do you know who is who until they stop and provide ID???

Not everyone is caught in the act of robbing and raping and murdering... you often catch up with them AFTER THE FACT, like maybe when you pull them over for a minor traffic violation...
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Old 03-21-2008, 09:52 PM   #33
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That's why i think cops should err in the side of safety, but oh well, I guess they need to practice those nifty chase and take down skills somewhere.
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Old 03-21-2008, 11:22 PM   #34
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yer skippy that the cop wouldn't have pulled into the center of the road with a full size truck coming at him " to try and slow the persuit" as he put it. That's horse . Because you can, is not enough reason to kill someone. Yeah he broke the law.....yep he screwed up, but execution hardly fits the crime of speeding. Zero tolerance traffic policy. Death to lawbreakers..... If you're on a bike that is.
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Old 03-22-2008, 12:09 AM   #35
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I know a couple of guys that have admitted to running. No names mentioned, and they got away. I always have to ask what if. Just pull over and take your lumps. Death and serious injury is just not worth it.
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Old 03-22-2008, 12:22 AM   #36
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Old 03-22-2008, 12:28 AM   #37
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Poor cop has to deal with that kids death for the lest of his life, he's the one I feel sorry for.

I also believe there needs to be a better way then high speed chases and that chases should be severly limited to the circumstances, but to blame the cops for this would be ridiculous w/o knowing their department's written procedures.
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Old 03-22-2008, 12:44 AM   #38
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and they always assume they are felons and chase them. sad.
well, when you dont stop and run, you ARE a felon.
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Old 03-22-2008, 01:39 AM   #39
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I see your point, but there have to be fairly innocuous reasons for running: the rider simply reacts (immature or not too bright) then is too afraid to stop because a routine ticket is now something worse, it's a kid out past curfew or one who's not supposed to be out on the bike, someone recently lost a job/is low on funds and thinks that the ticket/insurance cost is too much to bear, a general excess of testosterone, etc. I'm not advocating running, but I think there are other reasons, besides criminal behaviour, that explain why folks run.

These sound very much like the same kind of lame excuses people use when they commit a hit-and-run offense against a motorcyclist while driving a vehicle. I haven't heard too many people coming to their defense. The motorcyclist that runs from the police is exhibiting the same low mentality and lack of concern for the welfare of others as a hit-and-run driver.

Isn't the motorcyclist comitting a felony, just by the act of running?
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