Question from da noobie!!

[Amanda]

Ive had a couple of ppl tell me to get some seat time in on a mini, and even go-karts....all in turn helping me me at the track on my 600...

question is..how much does it help? what exactly is it helping? and why? and what else helps (and dont say track days or private lessons...)?

I know season is almost over... but im already planning my next season!

:)

Thanks in advance! :thumb:

[SPYDER BITE]

I ride my 70's alot just to increase comfort level and build confidence

[mcd]

Any seat time helps. Minis are good because you can learn a lot of skills that transfer to the big bikes, and it is easier(cheaper) to get track time. Dirtbikes would help too in the offseason. Just about any time you can spend on a bike would help improve your skills on the track. If your bike is still streetable, you can practice some of your braking and turn techniques on the street. I would not however go into a full lean on the street, or practice your TWS front straight tuck on the street!

[Jerran V]

seat time and big nu...i mean...heart

[CarbonJames]

one big thing you learn on a mini is how effective weighting the pegs becomes. with minis your confidence level may be raised considerably, they are more nimble and easier to maneuver around the turns, you can practice techniques on minis that will spill over onto the bigger bikes. Mini racing is a great learning tool.

[mcd]

.... okay but what about us big tall people like me an Curt I dont think what we would fit on a mini like you little people

Not sure how big you fellas are, but I am 6' 205, and will be riding a kx65. I also have a kx85 (for sale by the way :D) that I ride and it will more than accomodate a big guy.

[SCRC John]

Not sure how big you fellas are, but I am 6' 205, and will be riding a kx65. I also have a kx85 (for sale by the way :D) that I ride and it will more than accomodate a big guy.

FYI, I'm 6'4" - 215# and Curt makes me look like a dwarf:D

[ROADandTRACK]

I think the best and quickest way to learn to go fast is an XR100 or = setup w/ knobby front and a cut Cheng Shin street rear.

Then go out to a field somewhere and setup a roadcourse w/ cones or something. Make sure to have all types of turns. Then get out the stop watch.

[kingralphthe3rd]

seat time and big nu...i mean...heart

:rofl::rofl:
+1
.....well minus heart and add nuts :D

[po-po 5.0]

The only thing I can see a go-kart helping would be in learning a track.

[Amanda]

one big thing you learn on a mini is how effective weighting the pegs becomes. with minis your confidence level may be raised considerably, they are more nimble and easier to maneuver around the turns, you can practice techniques on minis that will spill over onto the bigger bikes. Mini racing is a great learning tool.

thats what im hearing...

but wouldnt just saying "hey, make sure u put weight on the pegs" be as effective?

i feel like if i try mini stuff, im taking a step back in a way. (i know all seat time helps)...but i just dont get it....

not trying to be stubborn. only trying to understand.

[cdill35]

In my humble opinion, of watching you ride on several track days, is that for the most part, your form is there, better than mine. You are smooth and consistent.

However.....

If you are trying to get faster, then where I see you're lacking is braking, getting on it sooner when exiting and straight away speed.

You have some that will say, just ride, be smooth, have fun, etc etc etc. And that is fine for those with that mentality. I do not know you mentality or future plans.

For me, it has become, simply about seat time, braking a little later, line, standing the bike up sooner and pushing it to the edge at least 10 laps in an entire day. My lap timer determines whether I have succeeded. THat is just MY experience. I care about lap times, some don't.

But in order for me, again I say, PERSONALLY, to do this, Ihave to NOT be scared to wreck and NOT be afraid to un ass some money of I do wreck.

So, riding anything, motard, mini, fiddy, etc etc, will certainly help you. But if you dont have the nuts to push it, on occassion, I would anticipate a plateau or a long time to getting fast.

Again though, it all depends on what your long term plans are with motorcycling.

[houseofpaint]

thats what im hearing...

but wouldnt just saying "hey, make sure u put weight on the pegs" be as effective?

i feel like if i try mini stuff, im taking a step back in a way. (i know all seat time helps)...but i just dont get it....

not trying to be stubborn. only trying to understand.

in a sense, it is taking a step back. but sometimes you gotta take one step back to make a few steps forward. slowing things down (speeds of a mini) will help you understand more about what you are doing and where you can improve.

you can use cones to setup 1 turn.....with diff colored cones as brake markers. and work your way past the cones to successfully make the turn. that's one way to help you go deep on the brakes. except when you transfer that skill over to the big bikes.....it's a lot faster and a lot less forgiving.

learn the limits of a mini.....and it'll help learn the limits of the big bike.

[houseofpaint]

oh yeah, careful now, crashing sucks....but it helps you become faster once you overcome the crash.

[Mr.P]

I'd say minis are not a step back, or slower. A YSR / NSR can turn much harder than a full size street bike, and the speeds you run at fit the track.

The biggest advantage is that your body position and inputs have a much larger impact on a 150 pound mini as opposed to a 400 lb streetbike. And at corner speeds under 30 MPH sliding one or both tires is an excercise in learning, not crashing.

TMGP is the cheapest and easiest way to go. For Endurance it's about $25 an hour to the organization and costs about $20 an hour for fuel, tires, pistons, oil, gas... So for a typical endurance race you get 2-4 riders and split fees, plus track entry, and it come to about $50 an hour.

Compare this to CMRA or even trackdays and it's maybe 1/3 the cost.

The key points you will learn are body positioning, cornering skills, picking a bike up from a slide with your knee, tucking in, braking, gassing early....everything you need to go fast on a big bike....with complete confidence. That's why a ton of the new crop of fast guys in AMA, MotoGP, etc.. have mini experience.

[Scorpio]

Best experience I gained from the mini's is getting comfortable with the bike sliding around and beeing in such close quarters with other riders.

You can experiment with different body possitioning and techniques and most the time, if you wreck, you just pick up your bike, bend your shifter back in place and get on down the road.

edit:
Shadman beat me to it.
Seems he's faster than me on here as well as the mini track. haha.

[launchpad199]

Stunters make the best racers its all about confidence in a bad situation:nod:

[RACER X]

mini's teach you corner speed. and how to maintain it.

[po-po 5.0]

i feel like if i try mini stuff, im taking a step back in a way. (i know all seat time helps)...but i just dont get it....



In order to be "fast" on a mini you gotta learn to stay in it, brake less, brake later, etc. All of this transfers to big bikes in the form of more corner speed. Anyone can whack the throttle open coming out of turns, but the races are won and lost in the corners.

[Moody]

Ask yourself one thing; Why would Colin Edwards race minis and it not be applicable to your need to race minis?

[RACER X]

CE + the maj. of all motoGP riders
same applies for cars and their top notch drivers, F1

[houseofpaint]

sounds like you have experience? :keke: Actually you are right! I lowsided on my second, and it6 actually slowed me down on my third one, but 2 trackdays later I was back ion the groove and faster than ever.

Amanda,
you have more trackdays than me. I have not seen you ride lateyl, but for me it's about chasing around the fast guys and letting them criticize how awful and slow I am. It helps. For example, I am riding level 4 on Sat and you are in level 2. I will be the slowest one out there, but I think I will be faster becasue of it. Come ride witht he big boi's we will make you faster!!!:thumb:

be careful....riding the advanced group can do you more harm than good if you're not ready for it.

[Amanda]

In my humble opinion, of watching you ride on several track days, is that for the most part, your form is there, better than mine. You are smooth and consistent.

However.....

If you are trying to get faster, then where I see you're lacking is braking, getting on it sooner when exiting and straight away speed.


Remember, I finally found my nuts last cresson event!

Im not afraid of wrecking, i know I wont be seriously injured.

thank you for outlook. I plan to work on my braking, exiting speed, and straight away speeds on sat!

Thank you :)

in a sense, it is taking a step back. but sometimes you gotta take one step back to make a few steps forward. slowing things down (speeds of a mini) will help you understand more about what you are doing and where you can improve.


learn the limits of a mini.....and it'll help learn the limits of the big bike.


Best experience I gained from the mini's is getting comfortable with the bike sliding around and beeing in such close quarters with other riders.

You can experiment with different body possitioning and techniques and most the time, if you wreck, you just pick up your bike, bend your shifter back in place and get on down the road.


In order to be "fast" on a mini you gotta learn to stay in it, brake less, brake later, etc. All of this transfers to big bikes in the form of more corner speed. Anyone can whack the throttle open coming out of turns, but the races are won and lost in the corners.

now these are what i was lookin for!

thanks guys!

:thumb:

[Moody]

Remember, I finally found my nuts last cresson event!

Im not afraid of wrecking, i know I wont be seriously injured.

thank you for outlook. I plan to work on my braking, exiting speed, and straight away speeds on sat!

Thank you :)








now these are what i was lookin for!

thanks guys!

:thumb:


:icon_scra

[Amanda]

:icon_scra

:shrug:

Ive come ALONG way, but im not that fast. I highly doubt any slip up at the track is gonna hospitalize me for weeks...

[ROADandTRACK]

You know, you are really really ignorant of the whole deal.
Racers have been killed on what you deem a step backwards.

Some of the real racers here have suggested some things but you throw that out and go w/ " plan to work on my braking, exiting speed, and straight away speeds".

You would be much better off listening to some long time racers.

[Amanda]

You know, you are really really ignorant of the whole deal.
Racers have been killed on what you deem a step backwards.

Some of the real racers here have suggested some things but you throw that out and go w/ " plan to work on my braking, exiting speed, and straight away speeds".

You would be much better off listening to some long time racers.

Wait, do u know me?

cuz i sure as hell dont think u do...



u got the whole point of my post ass backwards...go flame someone else...

[cdill35]

Lol

Those of us that know you amanda know that you work hard on the track. You are 21. Hang in there.

Or do I need to be a "real" racer to say that?

[houseofpaint]

Im not afraid of wrecking, i know I wont be seriously injured.


now that the fear is out of the way, it's time to work on going fast!

but also remember, this is a dangerous sport, even a small spill can spell disaster.

[ROADandTRACK]

I don't know you.
I'm just going on your post in this topic.
So based on that, I see ignorance. BTW - thats not a bad word.

Unless your stupid too. lol

I aint flamin anyone either. Just ask anyone who knows me. I was trying to help.

[Amanda]

now that the fear is out of the way, it's time to work on going fast!

but also remember, this is a dangerous sport, even a small spill can spell disaster.
in my opinion, there is a difference in being scared and having respect for a powerful machine! Im not scared of any of it or i would not be doing it, but im also not trying to do anything outside my limits...

I most def understand this is a dangerous sport...

which is why i take majority of my riding to the track...AND why im asking for more options to learn the right way...

lol... everyone knows girls can't ride :D
shhhhhh, dont tell anyone! :D



SIDENOTE: i rode a fifty tonight! :) ---> almost ready to try the nsr :hs:

[CarbonJames]

well i see lots of good advice and lots of bad advice. don't think for a minute that you can't get seriously hurt on a mini, i see it quite often unfort.

as shadman said, you'll learn so much about what your inputs do, and how important those inputs are. as i said, i promise you that you don't know what weighting the pegs do for you until you can ride a mini and steer with almost peg weight only.

as i read somewhere today, tire confidence makes a huge difference in your comfort level in riding a bike but that isn't the only thing that brings comfort, a properly set up bike is important too.

i suggest that you find your self a mini ride and start riding around not really a step back when you learn enough to move 3 steps forward as tony said. there are quite a few of us who probably learned MOST of what we know riding minis in a racing environment.

[HoustonGixxer]

well i see lots of good advice and lots of bad advice. don't think for a minute that you can't get seriously hurt on a mini, i see it quite often unfort.

as shadman said, you'll learn so much about what your inputs do, and how important those inputs are. as i said, i promise you that you don't know what weighting the pegs do for you until you can ride a mini and steer with almost peg weight only.

as i read somewhere today, tire confidence makes a huge difference in your comfort level in riding a bike but that isn't the only thing that brings comfort, a properly set up bike is important too.

i suggest that you find your self a mini ride and start riding around not really a step back when you learn enough to move 3 steps forward as tony said. there are quite a few of us who probably learned MOST of what we know riding minis in a racing environment.

I can comment on that. Mini's Hurt!!!! lol I got a big high side from mine this past weekend

[Godsuki]

well i see lots of good advice and lots of bad advice. don't think for a minute that you can't get seriously hurt on a mini, i see it quite often unfort.


Just ask Gabes girlfriend, or me, 14 broken bones last season because someone went down in front of me. If you think you won't get seriously hurt, you've got a lot to learn :nod: Mini racing by far has the hardest crashes. People push them so hard, and they bite hard.

[po-po 5.0]

In my experience you're MORE likely to hurt yourself bad on a mini.

[Wormgear]

I got a cheapo ching chong mini very recently. Never planned to race and I can’t say for sure about the skills yet from personal experience since I have not done a TD since I got it. Guess I’ll find out more on that tomorrow. I have had it out to Katy on 3 occasions now and I can attest that for me the entertainment value and grin factor is high. I can’t help thinking I’m developing and /or reinforcing skills that will be used on the big bike. As mentioned weighting the peg is huge on a mini and I can see taking that feel to the big bike. Although the body position is different, the same flaws I know I have on the big bike were present on the mini. Maybe if I fix’em on the mini….? It’s a great workout and I’m sure it’ll help develop or keep me in shape for the big bike. I haven’t experienced a bad crash (knock on wood) but I’ve tossed it down the track more times than I care to say and recently I’ve saved it a couple times too. That’s one Helluva cool feeling!
If seat time is key, hey this IS seat time. It’s also cheap. It’s also very assessable to me and on my schedule meaning I can hit the mini track pipe at least once a week every week. All things considered I’m thinking it’s great, cheap fun and that it would be beneficial to anyone wanting to improve their track day performance.

[Racer997]

Wait, do u know me? cuz i sure as hell dont think u do...

Haha! I love it when people post this question. It's the Internet and you're in a public forum, so hell yeah I know you.

I also love the "real" racers versus track day types when it comes to offering advice. There's a chasm there, both real and perceived, isn't there?

Enough commentary...

Karts are fun, but they won't teach you much about the track with regard to motorcycles, except maybe how much harder and faster you can corner with four wheels versus two.

Minis are an excellent educational tool for the track. Light and nimble, they can instill confidence and teach you the importance of corner speed because they lack power relative to a big bike. When you learn to ride the piss out of a mini, you'll feel a lot more comfortable trying to ride the piss out of your big bike.

Also stated here several times is the fact that minis might be small, but they should be taken seriously on the track. If you can bust your ass by tripping over your dog or something, you can certainly bust your ass on a moving motorcycle on pavement. I've done it plenty, as have most others here that piloted a mini around the track in anger.

[SBK Pilot]

Im not afraid of wrecking, i know I wont be seriously injured.

i would rather hear nails on a chalkboard... :angry7:

the truth is both minis and big bikes are dangerous... mystie also had a broken pelvis if memory serves... and plenty of us have seen others take trips in the ambulance (as well as personally gone) from riding both big/small bikes alike...

not to mention that the most crashes occur in the group that you are in... i.e., intermediate riders who are trying to push their own limits (not the limits of the bike)...

you REALLY need to put a whole lot more thought into your belief... it couldn't be farther from the truth...

[Godsuki]

i would rather hear nails on a chalkboard... :angry7:

the truth is both minis and big bikes are dangerous... mystie also had a broken pelvis if memory serves... and plenty of us have seen others take trips in the ambulance (as well as personally gone) from riding both big/small bikes alike...

not to mention that the most crashes occur in the group that you are in... i.e., intermediate riders who are trying to push their own limits (not the limits of the bike)...

you REALLY need to put a whole lot more thought into your belief... it couldn't be farther from the truth...

Of the 15 or 20 MH riders who started the 2007 TMGP season, only about 5 were made it to the seasons end without getting injured :thumb:

[Amanda]

yep, you guys misunderstood me...

when i said that, i was responding to cdill. He was saying u gotta have nuts and not be scared along with telling me what his view was on what i needed to work on at the track...then i said i wasnt scared and didnt think i would be seriously injured

I was NOT talking about mini injuries. I was talking about big bikes. Ive heard of worse injuries on those little chits then i have big bikes.

[maxgs]

Amanda's target is mid 1:50's. Seems that one need not resort to mini racing to hit that target on a 600.

[Wormgear]

" Of the 15 or 20 MH riders who started the 2007 TMGP season, only about 5 were made it to the seasons end without getting injured "

Do most of these injuries happen while racing? Piling up in a turn, or what?
Riding alone I’ve lowsided, slid on my butt, got up and rode some more.
Am I too slow to hurt myself or just lucky?

[Godsuki]

" Of the 15 or 20 MH riders who started the 2007 TMGP season, only about 5 were made it to the seasons end without getting injured "

Do most of these injuries happen while racing? Piling up in a turn, or what?
Riding alone I’ve lowsided, slid on my butt, got up and rode some more.
Am I too slow to hurt myself or just lucky?

just lucky. It's not the lowsides that get you

[Amanda]

Amanda's target is 1:59 and under. Seems that one need not resort to mini racing to hit that target on a 600.

Im not resorting to it for the success of that goal...and thats not my ultimate goal...thats just the goal for tomorrow

in fact...

I was neutral on the idea of a mini, I didnt know how it could help!...so i asked.

Got some great views from "real" racers and not so "real" racers....Congrats to MotoHouston... I never knew Rossi posted on this forum...

[Wormgear]

just lucky. It's not the lowsides that get you

Hopefully I'll stay that way. My lil pooter dosen't seem to have the grunt to break the rear loose while the front seems to be always looking for a way to let go.

[SBK Pilot]

Do most of these injuries happen while racing? Piling up in a turn, or what?
Riding alone I’ve lowsided, slid on my butt, got up and rode some more.
Am I too slow to hurt myself or just lucky?


Rather than look for any specific trend or contributing cause - it's better to acknowledge that bad crashes happen in both big bikes and minis. Bad crashes *can* happen in both test/tune days as well as races. I can remember life flight being called out to MSRH, Cresson and OHR in the last two years... Sometimes a race/sometimes a trackday...

Also - pace/laptimes are NOT directly linked to whether a rider is likely to crash or not. Max - you may be able to tool around in the mid 1:50's but you need to recognize that "going fast" is subjective.

Any rider pushing their own limits has an increased chance of crashing.

Along the same lines - laptimes/pace are not linked to crash severity.

[SBK Pilot]

at the request of several members - flames/ot/pw has been removed...

thread stays open - pls stay on topic and take drama to pms...

it's friday... :thumb:

[Scorpio]

Just wanted to add one bit of advice, though it will probably fall on def ears.
IMHO noobs should not spend their first 5-10 track days worrying about lap times.
A smart rider will spend that time learning their machine and everything else that needs to become second nature in order to be fast.
Lap timers make people push them selves beyond their limits some times.

[BlackWidow]

Among the 15-20 riders that GodSuki suggests started in 2007, only 5-6 made it?

I'm not sure how accurate that is...

I know alot of things played a significant role in some teams not showing up, or some players dropping out, or failing to show up...

from the starters

only Mad Season's Rick & Dennie completed, Que Paso's Carlos & Gianni completed, and from RideSmart I completed.

We're the 5 regular ones.

There are "other" riders from TMGP who are out there and active here on MH, but I don't think they were from the orignal 2007 starting teams.

Again - not all of the 10-15 riders that did not complete the season, had injuries as a reason. Some had different priorities ranging from family, work, house, big bikes, $$, etc etc.

I know for 2008 - it'll be even LESS people from MH (from the orignal 2007). However I hope we have some new people from MH show up to TMGP events.

Its is the absolute best and cheapest way to learn and have fun on two wheels.

[Godsuki]

Among the 15-20 riders that GodSuki suggests started in 2007, only 5-6 made it?

I'm not sure how accurate that is...

I know alot of things played a significant role in some teams not showing up, or some players dropping out, or failing to show up...

from the starters

only Mad Season's Rick & Dennie completed, Que Paso's Carlos & Gianni completed, and from RideSmart I completed.

We're the 5 regular ones.

There are "other" riders from TMGP who are out there and active here on MH, but I don't think they were from the orignal 2007 starting teams.

Again - not all of the 10-15 riders that did not complete the season, had injuries as a reason. Some had different priorities ranging from family, work, house, big bikes, $$, etc etc.

I know for 2008 - it'll be even LESS people from MH (from the orignal 2007). However I hope we have some new people from MH show up to TMGP events.

Its is the absolute best and cheapest way to learn and have fun on two wheels.

wasn't implying they didn't complete the season because of injuries, just stating most were injured throughout the season :thumb:

[BlackWidow]

wasn't implying they didn't complete the season because of injuries, just stating most were injured throughout the season :thumb:

Gotcha!

Yes I'd have to agree on that.... I have dislocated my shoulders 8 times just this year alone on the CRF100 & KX65. :-/ Totally uncool @ OHR when I dislocated both in a lowside that ended up with 6 weeks of recovery :sad:

Take your minis seriously - as seriously as the big bikes!

[Moody]

What is your true objective here? Are you going to race next season? If so lap times are not something to worry about; getting around the person in front of you is and you can either learn this on a big bike or a smaller one. Your choice!

[Godsuki]

What is your true objective here? Are you going to race next season? If so lap times are not something to worry about; getting around the person in front of you is and you can either learn this on a big bike or a smaller one. Your choice!

I don't remember seeing you pass anyone jason :shrug::keke:

[Racer997]

What is your true objective here? Are you going to race next season?

:eek3:

Asking this question is asking for trouble, my friend. Unless, of course, you qualify it by stating that you're not conducting an interview...

[Scorpio]

Moody gonna need some aloe vera for that burn. haha

[Moody]

I don't remember seeing you pass anyone jason :shrug::keke:

True True :sad:

[Moody]

Moody gonna need some aloe vera for that burn. haha

Exactly why I keep some growing on the porch. Damn the luck!

[Moody]

:eek3:

Asking this question is asking for trouble, my friend. Unless, of course, you qualify it by stating that you're not conducting an interview...

No interviews....