MSR Cresson - Mini Endurance pics

[MadseasoN]

Cresson was a blast!

The top 2 - 8 finishers in the Formula 7 class were all one lap apart. Great racing! I got a couple of pics and some video.

PS - Hey Rick .... you averaged 69.6 mph on one of your laps. :eek3:

Video:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=njg43al-GFM

http://i159.photobucket.com/albums/t133/denhou1974/SANY0417.jpg

Rick HIC, Carbon James,
http://i159.photobucket.com/albums/t133/denhou1974/SANY0422.jpg

BlackWidow
http://i159.photobucket.com/albums/t133/denhou1974/SANY042deleted

http://i159.photobucket.com/albums/t133/denhou1974/SANY0424.jpg

Carbon James, Capafool, Carlos,
http://i159.photobucket.com/albums/t133/denhou1974/SANY0426.jpg

http://i159.photobucket.com/albums/t133/denhou1974/SANY0427.jpg

http://i159.photobucket.com/albums/t133/denhou1974/SANY0421.jpg

[CarbonJames]

what a grid, 60 entries!! WOW, that was a lot of freaking bikes running around.

[Scorpio]

:sigh:

wish we were there.

Good job guys.

[BlackWidow]

Really good and tight racing...

This is the first track I've been to where I rode in "Survival mode" the majority of the time! There was just too big of a difference in closing speeds between the F4 bikes (Ninja 250/RS85) and our F7 bikes (CRF100/DRZ110/XR108).

I'm just glad we all made it out okay - from the red flag crashers, both guys went down hard and will NOT be riding for a few months.

Best LapTimes with Top Speed posted below...

3 Musketeers 1:24 @ 71mph
Team RideSmart 1:26 @ 69mph
Mad Season 1:27 @ 69mph
Sikk100 1:28 @ 68mph
Que Paso Racing 1:29 @ 67mph




All the above are F7...Surprisingly though with many uphill straights and corners on this track - it seems optimum gearing paid off greatly. I know I was geared waay too high. A little more umph up the hills would been better.

Congrats to all podium finishers - its pretty clear F7N (TMGP) is the most competitive class to be in :).

[MadseasoN]

Really good and tight racing...

This is the first track I've been to where I rode in "Survival mode" the majority of the time! There was just too big of a difference in closing speeds between the F4 bikes (Ninja 250/RS85) and our F7 bikes (CRF100/DRZ110/XR108).

I'm just glad we all made it out okay - from the red flag crashers, both guys went down hard and will NOT be riding for a few months.

Best LapTimes with Top Speed posted below...

3 Musketeers 1:24 @ 71mph
Team RideSmart 1:26 @ 69mph
Mad Season 1:27 @ 69mph
Sikk100 1:28 @ 68mph
Que Paso Racing 1:29 @ 67mph




All the above are F7...Surprisingly though with many uphill straights and corners on this track - it seems optimum gearing paid off greatly. I know I was geared waay too high. A little more umph up the hills would been better.

Congrats to all podium finishers - its pretty clear F7N (TMGP) is the most competitive class to be in :).

Congrats to 3 Musketeers. I think they're all like 10-13 years old. Fast kids!

Anybody ever find out who was involved in the two bike crash at the bottom of T1? Hope he's okay. I was hit by one of those bikes pretty hard (the red nsr or rs85). Fortunantly I didn't go down.

[CarbonJames]

Congrats to 3 Musketeers. I think they're all like 10-13 years old. Fast kids!

Anybody ever find out who was involved in the two bike crash at the bottom of T1? Hope he's okay. I was hit by one of those bikes pretty hard (the red nsr or rs85). Fortunantly I didn't go down.

yeah, they were riding for Hi zoot racing (if i remember correctly) he thinks he fractured his left thumb, his hand was a bit swolen, his team mate was looking for another rider to help him with the race, couldn't find one but i just told the guy to go out and do the best he could on his own, take breaks and just enjoy the ride, i think he ended up finding someone to ride with him tho! i remeber passing the bike in my second stint out and the guy i talked to wasn't the pilot.

he also took out a 250, they were pitted next to us, broke the left foot peg off so they fashioned a 4" long 3/8" bolt for a peg, bent the left clip on also, at the end of the race the clip on was freely moving around, they really conquered their race! :notworthy:

[BlackWidow]

Congrats to 3 Musketeers. I think they're all like 10-13 years old. Fast kids!

Anybody ever find out who was involved in the two bike crash at the bottom of T1? Hope he's okay. I was hit by one of those bikes pretty hard (the red nsr or rs85). Fortunantly I didn't go down.

Dennie,

It was an RS85. The ride John Hamlett faired out okay but does not remember anything, he's not going to be riding for awhile. :angry7:

I think the F4 bikes were less then polite at best. The birdies, head shaking, unnecessary close passing uphill followed with a stare, all were really unnecessary. Specially when you got OVER 3 times the HP!

I don't mean to stir anything up but 2 red flags and 3 yellow flags all were caused by 2 F4 bikes, unforunatly everytime it was a smaller bike on the receiveing end. :hs:

[Racer997]

I don't mean to stir anything up but 2 red flags and 3 yellow flags all were caused by 2 F4 bikes, unforunatly everytime it was a smaller bike on the receiveing end. :hs:

Some of this can be credited to this being the first event held at this track. Riders haven't yet learned how to put together secondary lines when dealing with traffic. I think another factor is the flowing nature of the track. There are virtually no "real" straights for passing, and most corners don't have very defined breaking / passing zones; most of the lines for the faster F4 bikes involve the same tarmac as the slower F6 and F7 bikes. Additionally I feel that the elevation changes coupled with the differences in speed made for errors when gauging closing speeds. The run down the hill was especially interesting to watch because of the speed differences between classes and how the race line was shared by all. Add it all up and you've some incidents that hopefully won't happen next time around.

[BlackWidow]

Some of this can be credited to this being the first event held at this track. Riders haven't yet learned how to put together secondary lines when dealing with traffic. I think another factor is the flowing nature of the track. There are virtually no "real" straights for passing, and most corners don't have very defined breaking / passing zone. Lines for the faster F4 bikes involve the same tarmac as the slower F6 and F7 bikes. Additionally I feel that the elevation changes coupled with the differences in speed made for errors when gauging closing speeds. Add it all up and you've some incidents that hopefully won't happen next time around.

I understand. However the majority were experienced racers and can hold their own - where as I agree with you, the headshaking and birdies were really uncalled for. That has nothing to do with slower, lines, track lay out or anything.

That's just plain simply rude. Specially when you have your last name printed on your leathers. :angry7:

Oh well... I'm just glad we did'nt have any "serious" injuries beside John Hamlett, Brian Booth, the guy with the TTR125 forced to go wide and wreck in the middle.

See where I'm going with this?

[MadseasoN]

Dennie,

It was an RS85. The ride John Hamlett faired out okay but does not remember anything, he's not going to be riding for awhile. :angry7:

I think the F4 bikes were less then polite at best. The birdies, head shaking, unnecessary close passing uphill followed with a stare, all were really unnecessary. Specially when you got OVER 3 times the HP!

I don't mean to stir anything up but 2 red flags and 3 yellow flags all were caused by 2 F4 bikes, unforunatly everytime it was a smaller bike on the receiveing end. :hs:

I agree. I tried to stay off the "race line" so they could go around, but damn. It's not like I have eyes in the back of my head.

It did get better as the race progressed.

[Racer997]

I understand. However the majority were experienced racers and can hold their own - where as I agree with you, the headshaking and birdies were really uncalled for. That has nothing to do with slower, lines, track lay out or anything.

That's just plain simply rude. Specially when you have your last name printed on your leathers. :angry7:

Oh well... I'm just glad we did'nt have any "serious" injuries beside John Hamlett, Brian Booth, the guy with the TTR125 forced to go wide and wreck in the middle.

See where I'm going with this?

I'm not saying they were right or that they even had a valid excuse. We had some choice words for some of the riders and teams that were doing this when they could be identified. I told one guy that he wasn't Mat Mladin, Jr., but if he was going to act like it, he could sit out the rest of the day. I think his on track manners improved after that. He was but one of several, however.

[BlackWidow]

I'm not saying they were right or that they even had a valid excuse. We had some choice words for some of the riders and teams that were doing this when they could be identified. I told one guy that he wasn't Mat Mladin, Jr., but if he was going to act like it, he could sit out the rest of the day. I think his on track manners improved after that. He was but one of several, however.

We (F7 riders) greatly appreciate it. I know I saw an official speaking to some of the guys and telling them to go easy - which sorta showed as I think the last 90 minutes of the race went rather "clean".

Nevertheless we enjoyed it greatly! :D I never knew my CRF100 could actually go over 65 mph with my big frame on it :keke:! It was scary! :nod:

[MadseasoN]

We (F7 riders) greatly appreciate it. I know I saw an official speaking to some of the guys and telling them to go easy - which sorta showed as I think the last 90 minutes of the race went rather "clean".

Nevertheless we enjoyed it greatly! :D I never knew my CRF100 could actually go over 65 mph with my big frame on it :keke:! It was scary! :nod:

Take a lap on the 70 next time we're at Oakhill or Cresson. 6+ footers don't belong on those bikes .... especially at 70mph! :D

[CarbonJames]

well, i had some really close passes made on me but, i was expecting it too. I just listened for the louder faster bikes, as they came upon me i adjusted my line and held it till they passed. no problems from my end. It's to be expected but, as you say, was a bit aggressive for some of them.

[Moody]

Looking good!

[Capafool]

Really good and tight racing...
Best LapTimes with Top Speed posted below...

3 Musketeers 1:24 @ 71mph
Team RideSmart 1:26 @ 69mph
Mad Season 1:27 @ 69mph
Sikk100 1:28 @ 68mph
Que Paso Racing 1:29 @ 67mph


You're cheating us of over 1mph!! :angry7: :keke:

Also, has anyone noticed that around the red flag times the laps repeat? im assuming after the flags they revert back to the previous lap, so it would make sense, but our lap 21 is repeated 3 times!

great track, lots of fun, and probably even more on a faster bike. Our bike unfortunately lacks speed, but luckily we have consitency and most our time is lost on the straights and we play catch up through the turns. can't complain though... Im over 200lbs and I can manage to keep up with many others who have the weight advantage.

[BlackWidow]

You're cheating us of over 1mph!! :angry7: :keke:

Also, has anyone noticed that around the red flag times the laps repeat? im assuming after the flags they revert back to the previous lap, so it would make sense, but our lap 21 is repeated 3 times!

great track, lots of fun, and probably even more on a faster bike. Our bike unfortunately lacks speed, but luckily we have consitency and most our time is lost on the straights and we play catch up through the turns. can't complain though... Im over 200lbs and I can manage to keep up with many others who have the weight advantage.

From my "oh so very detailed" view of all the F7 bikes. If your riders avg weight was under 120 lbs you'd podium. Or if you were geared for acceleration over top speed, you'd podium.

3 Musketeers are kids all under 100 lbs each, with daddy's backing of motor. LOL.

You guys were definitly losing top speed to us and mad season, but i noticed you guys were climbing up the hills wAAAY! faster then any F7 bike out there including the kids!

It all came down to a difference of gearing me thinks. Usually for OHR we all try to get good top speed while keeping one hill in mind, that was the starting point for most teams going into Cresson. Those that accounted for 2 hills and changed their gearing last minute - sure got a good advantage.

I've been reminded yet again how much gearing matters!

You guys have been consistent through out the year - and got a well deserved podium! :thumb:

[Capafool]

You guys were definitly losing top speed to us and mad season, but i noticed you guys were climbing up the hills wAAAY! faster then any F7 bike out there including the kids!

It all came down to a difference of gearing me thinks.


yeah gearing does matter... but even on the tracks which we visit regularly (katy and denton) if you look at the mylaps numbers, our bike is usually at the bottom of the charts when it comes to speed. If we gear any taller for more top speed it doesn't help because getting out of the corners quick will become an issue, so one things cancels the other and we're back to having low lap speeds. We gotta make up for it through the turns... Yeah I was able to get up the hills pretty good because i was downshifting several gears and ringin the hell our of 2nd gear! :keke:

[n2racing]

Re: Red flag riders won't be riding for months-I think you will find that the second red flag involved my team mate Lee Henry, and I will bet the farm that he is at ECR in September. Nothing like being hit from behind by a faster bike.

[Tojo92]

We had a good time also. Team No Redline Essay. I didn't get to ride until the second half, but got to mix it up with Ray (Sikk 100) back and forth the last hour plus some. I think Ray and I were a bit of a rolling road block but I didn't get any birdies, etc. I thought they were making very clean passes. Maybe it's because it was later in the race.

Where are the results posted, I am curious how we did. I know we were a few laps behind in the beginning, but I think we held up ok battling with Ray. He and I were literally laughing out loud passing back and forth. Best time I have had in my first year doing this.

Nice track except for that big divot at the seam at the bottom of the downhill that would jump your tire out. I hit it once, and that was enough.

Good time.

Staton

[MadseasoN]

We had a good time also. Team No Redline Essay. I didn't get to ride until the second half, but got to mix it up with Ray (Sikk 100) back and forth the last hour plus some. I think Ray and I were a bit of a rolling road block but I didn't get any birdies, etc. I thought they were making very clean passes. Maybe it's because it was later in the race.

Where are the results posted, I am curious how we did. I know we were a few laps behind in the beginning, but I think we held up ok battling with Ray. He and I were literally laughing out loud passing back and forth. Best time I have had in my first year doing this.

Nice track except for that big divot at the seam at the bottom of the downhill that would jump your tire out. I hit it once, and that was enough.

Good time.

Staton

I hit that divot once. I thought I'd ran over a tree limb or something!

Results:
http://cmraracing.com/Results/2008/Event8/me/8_4.xml

[BlackWidow]

Re: Red flag riders won't be riding for months-I think you will find that the second red flag involved my team mate Lee Henry, and I will bet the farm that he is at ECR in September. Nothing like being hit from behind by a faster bike.

From the flags - John H. & Brian Booth (broke his right hand for the 3rd time), both will be out for a few months.

Your team mate I don't know, but he did lay there for several minutes before somebody got to him.

Does he remember what happened? It looked like he just got nudged and got in a wobble.

[Rick H.I.C.]

Had a great time as usual! Just couldn't get into my zone. :-/
I didn't have any problems with the faster bikes on the track. :shrug:
I sure didn't hesitate to bring it back under them when they slowed up for a corner either though. :D
Congrats to all!:hello:

[n2racing]

BlackWidow, Lee was more than 'nudged', the F4 bike hit the bars hard enough to bend them.

[BlackWidow]

BlackWidow, Lee was more than 'nudged', the F4 bike hit the bars hard enough to bend them.

I was'nt close enought o see that happen, but I did see the F4 bike come unnecessarily close to Lee.

Same bike took out Brian Booth in similar fashion at about a good 65-70 mph right BEFORE T1, Brian ended up breaking his hand.

Needless to say both times the slowers bike were 'ahead' and also holding their own line.

:-/

[Nancy Selleck]

yeah, they were riding for Hi zoot racing (if i remember correctly) he thinks he fractured his left thumb, his hand was a bit swolen, his team mate was looking for another rider to help him with the race, couldn't find one but i just told the guy to go out and do the best he could on his own, take breaks and just enjoy the ride, i think he ended up finding someone to ride with him tho! i remeber passing the bike in my second stint out and the guy i talked to wasn't the pilot.

he also took out a 250, they were pitted next to us, broke the left foot peg off so they fashioned a 4" long 3/8" bolt for a peg, bent the left clip on also, at the end of the race the clip on was freely moving around, they really conquered their race! :notworthy:

Please tell me that you're kidding about a team allowing someone to ride on their team who was not registered! The team name is TAMUMC and the only riders listed in the results are Brian Booth and Greg Geis. (Results are posted on our Results page: http://www.cmraracing.com/Results/2008/Event8/me/8_4.xml)

Forget about the fact that this is grounds for disqualification, but my concern is the club's liability risk of someone racing without signing the liability waiver.

CarbonJames please call me at the office.

[BlackWidow]

Please tell me that you're kidding about a team allowing someone to ride on their team who was not registered! The team name is TAMUMC and the only riders listed in the results are Brian Booth and Greg Geis. (Results are posted on our Results page: http://www.cmraracing.com/Results/2008/Event8/me/8_4.xml)

Forget about the fact that this is grounds for disqualification, but my concern is the club's liability risk of someone racing without signing the liability waiver.

CarbonJames please call me at the office.

Nancy,

No need to worry. All 3 riders that got on the bike had signed "off" the liability waiver.

Brian and Greg were the two endurance riders, but after Brian crashed in the endurance - they were looking for another rider to fill in. Needless to say "Jason" was available who was there just for the mini sprints. He just filled in for Brian's stints.

Since Jason was signed up for the mini sprints (later on for TMGP), I'm sure he had signed off the waivers.

I'll speak to them when I see them next time, they would never knowingly do anything to harm the club's reputation. There good guys! :thumb:

[Nancy Selleck]

"Jason" may have a TMGP license, but did he fill out a CMRA license form?

And per the CMRA endurance rules, all riders on the team must be entered on an entry form or the team will be disqualified. The team owner is required to come to Registration to add the new rider on before he/she gets on the bike. This can be done anytime before the end of the race, but definitely before the rider gets on the bike.

Remember, this was a CMRA endurance race...therefore CMRA rulebook.

[Moody]

Uh oh!

[BlackWidow]

"Jason" may have a TMGP license, but did he fill out a CMRA license form?

And per the CMRA endurance rules, all riders on the team must be entered on an entry form or the team will be disqualified. The team owner is required to come to Registration to add the new rider on before he/she gets on the bike. This can be done anytime before the end of the race, but definitely before the rider gets on the bike.

Remember, this was a CMRA endurance race...therefore CMRA rulebook.

Agreed. I'm aware of the CMRA rules. :)

Just stating my perspective as I was pitted next to them, they like me are college students trying to afford an expensive hobby. I'm sure they just overlooked it.

Unforunately they don't post here nor on the CMRA boards. I'll forward them your message when I see them in September. :thumb:

[Nancy Selleck]

Agreed. I'm aware of the CMRA rules. :)

Just stating my perspective as I was pitted next to them, they like me are college students trying to afford an expensive hobby. I'm sure they just overlooked it.

Unforunately they don't post here nor on the CMRA boards. I'll forward them your message when I see them in September. :thumb:

I'm not sure what money has to do with it. TMGP racers not wanting CMRA points do not have to pay for a CMRA license...but they are required to fill out (and sign) the license form. Endurance fees are not per rider, they are per hour...so adding a rider would not increase the cost for the team.

I'm not trying to get anyone into trouble here, but competing in a race without having the proper license is a serious situation. I doubt that anyone would overlook getting a license with the AMA (or any other racing organization) before climbing on a bike in a race.

[BlackWidow]

I'm not sure what money has to do with it. TMGP racers not wanting CMRA points do not have to pay for a CMRA license...but they are required to fill out (and sign) the license form. Endurance fees are not per rider, they are per hour...so adding a rider would not increase the cost for the team.

I'm not trying to get anyone into trouble here, but competing in a race without having the proper license is a serious situation. I doubt that anyone would overlook getting a license with the AMA (or any other racing organization) before climbing on a bike in a race.

LOL I think you misunderstood me. There was alot going on on Saturday, sometimes when you off from a class late on friday and drive the whole night friday to miss the practice on saturday, then registrations, to techs, sprint entries same day, endurance the same days aswell, etc etc..... so things can be overlooked. I'm sure they just overlooked it. :D

Anyways the point is your right and they are wrong - I'll let them know their mistake so they don't do it again. :)

[Rick H.I.C.]

The plot thickens! Hey Den want to move up overall?
J/K. It's mini's, I feel bad enough winning over kids. Even if they're half my size. :eek3: :)
But Nancy has this one strung.......

[Tojo92]

I can get hold Greg through a buddy in College Station. I will direct them to this thread.

FWIW, they are good guys.

Staton

[Rick H.I.C.]

I would think to just let them know to have their ducks in a row next time. I think they're use to most racers running around like mindless chickens on race day. :thumb: Espescially 1st - how many times. I still come up with mindless questions that I come around to later as derrrr!!:shrug::hs:

[GregGeis]

Hey guys, sorry about the rules violation, it was just a spur of the moment type of deal, I wasnt even thinking about him not being registered. At any rate, you can DQ us, we weren't racing for anything anyways, just having fun. We weren't in contention and I just wanted to get a second rider becuase Brian had to go to the hospital and a 1 man endurance team didnt sound like much fun. Anyways, I know better than that, it was just in the middle of the race and I didn't think it through. Sorry, it wont happen again.

[GregGeis]

From the flags - John H. & Brian Booth (broke his right hand for the 3rd time), both will be out for a few months.

Your team mate I don't know, but he did lay there for several minutes before somebody got to him.

Does he remember what happened? It looked like he just got nudged and got in a wobble.

When Brian got taken out, it was stupid and unnecessary from the F4 Rider. I didn't see it specifically but Brian said the rider came down on him and bumped him, then let off a bit and came back through and took out his front tire with the F4s rear tire. Now he has a rather large piece of bone broken off in his hand and has to go to a surgeon. Brian is a really skilled rider and does not have any problems rubbing and racing but you can't do much when someone takes out your front wheel. It was definitely a big error in judgement by the F4 rider and it got someone hurt. Unfortunately, Brian doesn't remember what the bike looked like or even what color it was.

[CarbonJames]

unfort. when the small bikes get mixed up with the big bikes, typically, the small bike loses. EVERYTIME! i've been taken out by larger bikes before and no big deal, but then again i wasn't injured in the process either.

[GregGeis]

Yea, and Brian wasn't even whining about it, he just said it was a stupid pass. I was more irked about it because with everything I saw and all the crashes, it didn't seem like an isolated incident caused by a lapse in judgement.

I also forgot to mention, that although we were riding for Hizoot earlier in the year we weren't racing for them. We had just started a new team this round (TAMUMC).

[Nancy Selleck]

Greg, thanks for posting. I know that it was an oversight and wasn't done maliciously. This is a learning experience for everyone.

Please tell Brian that I hope he will be okay soon.

Reporting rough riding to our officials at the track is definitely encouraged.