This b!%@# is crazy!: Clinton Health Plan could entail granishing wages...

[CaJuNsOuLjA]

Clinton health plan may mean tapping pay

WASHINGTON - Democrat Hillary Rodham Clinton said Sunday she might be willing to garnish the wages of workers who refuse to buy health insurance to achieve coverage for all Americans.
ADVERTISEMENT

The New York senator has criticized presidential rival Barack Obama for pushing a health plan that would not require universal coverage. Clinton has not always specified the enforcement measures she would embrace, but when pressed on ABC's "This Week," she said: "I think there are a number of mechanisms" that are possible, including "going after people's wages, automatic enrollment."

Clinton said such measures would apply only to workers who can afford health coverage but refuse to buy it, which puts undue pressure on hospitals and emergency rooms. With her proposals for subsidies, she said, "it will be affordable for everyone."

Clinton also suggested that Obama would be more susceptible to Republican attack ads in a general election because he has not been scrutinized for years as she has.

"I've been through the Republican attacks over and over again," she said. When Obama was elected to the Senate from Illinois in 2004, she said, he "didn't face anyone who ran attack ads" comparable to those aimed at her.

The presidential contenders in both parties campaigned all-out on Sunday, two days before the Super Tuesday voting in 24 states holding primaries or caucuses.

Clinton was campaigning in Missouri and Minneapolis. Obama scheduled a rally in Wilmington, Del., while some of his highest-profile surrogates — his wife, Michelle, Oprah Winfrey and Caroline Kennedy — were rallying voters in Los Angeles. Among Republicans, Arizona Sen. John McCain was stumping in Connecticut and former Massachusetts Gov. Mitt Romney scheduled stops in Glen Ellyn, Ill., and the St. Louis suburb of Maryland Heights. Former Arkansas Gov. Mike Huckabee was concentrating on the South, with appearances in Georgia and Tennessee.

McCain told "Fox News Sunday" he would veto any tax increase passed by a Democratic-controlled Congress. McCain, who opposed President Bush's first two tax cuts, now says Congress should make the reductions permanent, and that there also should be further tax reductions for business investments.

His chief rival, Romney, told the ABC program that McCain "doesn't understand the economy" and that his advocacy of a higher gasoline tax to combat global warming would hurt U.S. consumers.

Romney also called on Huckabee to drop from the race. In response, called the suggestion "ludicrous," noting that only a fraction of the delegates needed to win the Republican presidential nomination had been apportioned thus far.

"I've got a different take on that. I think it's time for Mitt Romney to step aside," Huckabee said on CNN.

Link (http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080203/ap_on_el_pr/campaign_rdp_31)

[CaJuNsOuLjA]

She's gotta be out of her rabbit ass mind...and so are the lames still considering voting for her...

[RACER X]

the communism begins.

[cogs69]

You know, I just watched my dad have to get heart surgery. His bills have cleared the 100k mark. Guess what, in all honesty, he will NEVER pay that off. Guess who gets to pay for it? When they make a loss like that, it goes into the prices that you and I cover. I don't COMPLETELY agree with her, but I can see a positive side to it. Only thing is, if they FORCE you to pay health coverage, they must do away with charging you more than what the insurance covers. If that went along with it, I could be more in favor. BTW, in no way will she EVER get my vote, but I could see a positive side if they did away with us having to pay more than INS covers.

[NoFear]

She's gotta be out of her rabbit ass mind...and so are the lames still considering voting for her...

If everyone has to pay the cost for each of us will go down ... not saying that it would be right to force us all to pay, But why would anyone in thier right mind not elect to pay for Healthcare? the only reason that I can think of is cost :dontknow:

[CaJuNsOuLjA]

If everyone has to pay the cost for each of us will go down ... not saying that it would be right to force us all to pay, But why would anyone in thier right mind not elect to pay for Healthcare? the only reason that I can think of is cost :dontknow:

Right, evidently they would neglect electing to enroll because they would feel that money could be put better use elsewhere. I have no problem with everyone getting coverage, nothing wrong with a healthier society- the happiest nations in the world have universal healthcare so that says alot (Denmark, the UK, Norway, etc...); I just have a problem with the government dictating more than 20% of my finances. Starting to get a lil big there and I think garnishing wages to force folks to get healthcare compounded on the already lengthy list of taxes is moving us in the wrong direction.

[cogs69]

Right, evidently they would neglect electing to enroll because they would feel that money could be put better use elsewhere. I have no problem with everyone getting coverage, nothing wrong with a healthier society- the happiest nations in the world have universal healthcare so that says alot (Denmark, the UK, Norway, etc...); I just have a problem with the government dictating more than 20% of my finances. Starting to get a lil big there and I think garnishing wages to force folks to get healthcare compounded on the already lengthy list of taxes is moving us in the wrong direction.

I think actually, the biggest problem I have with it, is how they would spend the money. If they had SS straightened up, and the deficit cleaned up, maybe. But it is like handing your money to someone who is going to blow it on bubble gum or something. But honestly, I would be in favor of this plan, IF it cut down on out-of-pocket and we were sure the money would be put where it needs to be.

[mekrew]

ya that right there lost her ALOT of people

[Chris24]

that effing C*NT is out of her goddamned mind.

i personally do not pay for any health insurance, even though it is available to me. it may seem crazy to some, but i feel strongly about it and i have my reasons.

1) im healthy.

i dont have any crazy health problems that run in my family. i dont have any strange diseases, or conditions. i havnt needed to see a doctor since my parents took me to regular visits as a kid. i simply would not use the insurance. im not going to pay for something i dont use.

2) health care in the US is not only expensive, its shitty.

ever gotten the run around on the service of your bike? the quacks office is no different. all they are interested in is money. my friend had some knee problems, so he went in. they did tests. they called him back to get the results. he had to wait two hours, pay a $30 co-pay to get his results...

WTF...

they couldnt just call him on the phone and say "mr. sir, the tests show that....blah"

nope, cause they were after the $30 and the insurance co. money. **** THAT. i do not need to be dicked around like that for any reason, ESPECIALLY when it comes to my health.

3) im not going to pay for other peoples shit.

im really sorry you have some disease or condition. im not going to pay for your treatment. if you want to pitch in with all the other sick people and split your costs, be my guest. im not throwing money away into your pot.

4) i need more money on my paycheck, not less.

insurance might only be $30 a month, and alot of people try to say "you wont miss it". trust me i would. a couple hours of overtime is alot to me, and it makes a difference. i can get something for that $30, whether it pays for my phone bill or goes to something else, at least it goes to something to get me a little further. paying for insurance im not going to use, no ****ing way, jose.

[ArturoC]

phuck that

[cogs69]

You are ****in nuts and thats all I have to say.

that effing C*NT is out of her goddamned mind.

i personally do not pay for any health insurance, even though it is available to me. it may seem crazy to some, but i feel strongly about it and i have my reasons.

1) im healthy.

i dont have any crazy health problems that run in my family. i dont have any strange diseases, or conditions. i havnt needed to see a doctor since my parents took me to regular visits as a kid. i simply would not use the insurance. im not going to pay for something i dont use.

My dad was a track runner, basketball player, tennis player and a technician all his life. NO medical conditions EVER. 6 weeks ago found out he has a heart condition (from birth, and exremely rare) and needed emergency bypass. NOTHING else wrong with him. Nothing runs in the family period. As of yesterday he had already cleared 6 digits on his bill. Think you get dicked around by doctors now? Try NOT having insurance, took him 6 weeks to get surgery because they didn't want to treat him KNOWING they would probably never get their money. All the while telling him he could drop dead instantly with what he has.

2) health care in the US is not only expensive, its shitty.

ever gotten the run around on the service of your bike? the quacks office is no different. all they are interested in is money. my friend had some knee problems, so he went in. they did tests. they called him back to get the results. he had to wait two hours, pay a $30 co-pay to get his results...

WTF...

they couldnt just call him on the phone and say "mr. sir, the tests show that....blah"

nope, cause they were after the $30 and the insurance co. money. **** THAT. i do not need to be dicked around like that for any reason, ESPECIALLY when it comes to my health.

3) im not going to pay for other peoples shit.

im really sorry you have some disease or condition. im not going to pay for your treatment. if you want to pitch in with all the other sick people and split your costs, be my guest. im not throwing money away into your pot.

Do you pay taxes? If so, YOU ALREADY DO PAY FOR IT.

4) i need more money on my paycheck, not less.

insurance might only be $30 a month, and alot of people try to say "you wont miss it". trust me i would. a couple hours of overtime is alot to me, and it makes a difference. i can get something for that $30, whether it pays for my phone bill or goes to something else, at least it goes to something to get me a little further. paying for insurance im not going to use, no ****ing way, jose.


:angry7:

[CaJuNsOuLjA]

You are ****in nuts and thats all I have to say.

:angry7:

:keke:

My boy Cogs...good points in blue bro! You never kno what issues you have until they manifest themselves and if you happen to not have insurance when something goes wrong...you are in for the okey doke of a lifetime...

[Whorenet]

She's gotta be out of her rabbit ass mind...and so are the lames still considering voting for her...

see fool! this is what i was talking about a month ago in that other thread...yall thought i was just being racist and saying EVERYONE doesnt DESERVE health care....but this was my point all along.....

im not paying another damn dime for deadbeat mofo's that can't afford to live cause theyre lazy.

\rant

[Moody]

Day by day it looks like it will be Clinton vs. McKain and I am not sure McKain is actuley sane anymore.

[cogs69]

Day by day it looks like it will be Clinton vs. McKain and I am not sure McKain is actuley sane anymore.

yep day by day it looks scarier and scarier.

[cashtown]

I can see garnishment of someone's wages after they run up a huge hospital bill wihout insurance, but mandatory enrollment is unnacceptable.

[CaJuNsOuLjA]

Day by day it looks like it will be Clinton vs. McKain and I am not sure McKain is actuley sane anymore.

I dunno, Obama gained 11 points on her in a 2 day span (speculatively resultant of Edwards' departure)...they are now virtually tied in the Rasmussen and Zogby polls...I'm starting to think Obama may beat her. She recently had another tear up session and that will hurt her as well as Senator Kennedys, Oprahs, Arnold's wife Maria Shrivers and an upcoming Rupert Murdoch endorsements. Tomorrow will be a little informing but I doubt will give us a clear cut winner. Based on those polls, they'll have about the same amount of delegates after the polls close tomorrow...

[jus10]

Somehow this smells like political butt rape.... even though I already have great insurance, I'm waiting to see how I (and everyone like me) will be affected.

[Moody]

I dunno, Obama gained 11 points on her in a 2 day span (speculatively resultant of Edwards' departure)...they are now virtually tied in the Rasmussen and Zogby polls...I'm starting to think Obama may beat her. She recently had another tear up session and that will hurt her as well as Senator Kennedys, Oprahs, Arnold's wife Maria Shrivers and an upcoming Rupert Murdoch endorsements. Tomorrow will be a little informing but I doubt will give us a clear cut winner. Based on those polls, they'll have about the same amount of delegates after the polls close tomorrow...

I am just afraid the Bush Clinton regime is not ready to give up the power.

[Crystalline]

that effing C*NT is out of her goddamned mind.

i personally do not pay for any health insurance, even though it is available to me. it may seem crazy to some, but i feel strongly about it and i have my reasons.

1) im healthy.

i dont have any crazy health problems that run in my family. i dont have any strange diseases, or conditions. i havnt needed to see a doctor since my parents took me to regular visits as a kid. i simply would not use the insurance. im not going to pay for something i dont use.

You might be healthy now, or you may feel healthy now, but when something serious happens, no one really knows until it is too late (some of the time). Also, by knowing you ride, I would say that it is a pretty dangerous sport/hobby/passion. Call it what you will, but the point is that if something were to happen and because you do not have health insurance, guess who is going to be paying for it! The money taken from society for programs that will aid in these bills.

2) health care in the US is not only expensive, its shitty.

ever gotten the run around on the service of your bike? the quacks office is no different. all they are interested in is money. my friend had some knee problems, so he went in. they did tests. they called him back to get the results. he had to wait two hours, pay a $30 co-pay to get his results...

WTF...

they couldnt just call him on the phone and say "mr. sir, the tests show that....blah"

nope, cause they were after the $30 and the insurance co. money. **** THAT. i do not need to be dicked around like that for any reason, ESPECIALLY when it comes to my health.

That depends on the doctor and how he conducts his business.
3) im not going to pay for other peoples shit.

im really sorry you have some disease or condition. im not going to pay for your treatment. if you want to pitch in with all the other sick people and split your costs, be my guest. im not throwing money away into your pot.

You already do, I hope you are aware of that.
4) i need more money on my paycheck, not less.

insurance might only be $30 a month, and alot of people try to say "you wont miss it". trust me i would. a couple hours of overtime is alot to me, and it makes a difference. i can get something for that $30, whether it pays for my phone bill or goes to something else, at least it goes to something to get me a little further. paying for insurance im not going to use, no ****ing way, jose.

I still think better safe than sorry.

[CaJuNsOuLjA]

Somehow this smells like political butt rape.... even though I already have great insurance, I'm waiting to see how I (and everyone like me) will be affected.

Same here... I work for UH Central so I'm good in terms of benefits- Medical in particular- but I am curious what this plan would mean and how it would effect those of us already insured...

[Moody]

So is it only me that understands this country already has a national health care plan?

[CaJuNsOuLjA]

I am just afraid the Bush Clinton regime is not ready to give up the power.

Lol, I had that fear a while back but I guarantee that fugger ain't pullin' a Musharraf roun' these parts...

[CaJuNsOuLjA]

So is it only me that understands this country already has a national health care plan?

Care to expound...?

[RACER X]

if you ride a bike and don't have ins. thats plain stupid.

if you ride a bike and have ins. avail and don't have it, thats beyond stupid.

[Moody]

Care to expound...?

Medicare and Medicaid which is paid for by all of us everytime we get paid.

[p0opstlnksal0t]

Clinton health plan may mean tapping pay

WASHINGTON - Democrat Hillary Rodham Clinton said Sunday she might be willing to garnish the wages of workers who refuse to buy health insurance to achieve coverage for all Americans.
ADVERTISEMENT

The New York senator has criticized presidential rival Barack Obama for pushing a health plan that would not require universal coverage. Clinton has not always specified the enforcement measures she would embrace, but when pressed on ABC's "This Week," she said: "I think there are a number of mechanisms" that are possible, including "going after people's wages, automatic enrollment."

Clinton said such measures would apply only to workers who can afford health coverage but refuse to buy it, which puts undue pressure on hospitals and emergency rooms. With her proposals for subsidies, she said, "it will be affordable for everyone."

Clinton also suggested that Obama would be more susceptible to Republican attack ads in a general election because he has not been scrutinized for years as she has.

"I've been through the Republican attacks over and over again," she said. When Obama was elected to the Senate from Illinois in 2004, she said, he "didn't face anyone who ran attack ads" comparable to those aimed at her.

The presidential contenders in both parties campaigned all-out on Sunday, two days before the Super Tuesday voting in 24 states holding primaries or caucuses.

Clinton was campaigning in Missouri and Minneapolis. Obama scheduled a rally in Wilmington, Del., while some of his highest-profile surrogates — his wife, Michelle, Oprah Winfrey and Caroline Kennedy — were rallying voters in Los Angeles. Among Republicans, Arizona Sen. John McCain was stumping in Connecticut and former Massachusetts Gov. Mitt Romney scheduled stops in Glen Ellyn, Ill., and the St. Louis suburb of Maryland Heights. Former Arkansas Gov. Mike Huckabee was concentrating on the South, with appearances in Georgia and Tennessee.

McCain told "Fox News Sunday" he would veto any tax increase passed by a Democratic-controlled Congress. McCain, who opposed President Bush's first two tax cuts, now says Congress should make the reductions permanent, and that there also should be further tax reductions for business investments.

His chief rival, Romney, told the ABC program that McCain "doesn't understand the economy" and that his advocacy of a higher gasoline tax to combat global warming would hurt U.S. consumers.

Romney also called on Huckabee to drop from the race. In response, called the suggestion "ludicrous," noting that only a fraction of the delegates needed to win the Republican presidential nomination had been apportioned thus far.

"I've got a different take on that. I think it's time for Mitt Romney to step aside," Huckabee said on CNN.

Link (http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080203/ap_on_el_pr/campaign_rdp_31)


these are the types of plans most liberals embrace

[Whorenet]

http://i13.photobucket.com/albums/a270/houstonaftermidnight3/30470_m.gif

lol

[AliceInChains02]

these are the types of plans most liberals embrace

what do conservatives embrace? Small govt??? but make everyone in school pray, and don't let doctors kill braindead women, and don't kill fetuses, and lock up everyone who does drugs. it's only small govt. where they prefer-mostly when it comes to $$$

[CaJuNsOuLjA]

Medicare and Medicaid which is paid for by all of us everytime we get paid.

True...even extends to illegals.

[CaJuNsOuLjA]

these are the types of plans most liberals embrace

Yeah I'd say solely because most times the plan doesn't tap into their pockets, I'd be willing to bet that this hurts her more than helps because those same liberals will actually have to contribute and will be directly effected...

[p0opstlnksal0t]

what do conservatives embrace? Small govt??? but make everyone in school pray, and don't let doctors kill braindead women, and don't kill fetuses, and lock up everyone who does drugs. it's only small govt. where they prefer-mostly when it comes to $$$

i bash both sides, as im moderate. honestly all the front runners in both parties suck ballz.

[CaJuNsOuLjA]

i bash both sides, as im moderate. honestly all the front runners in both parties suck ballz.

double :thumb:

[hardcoresteve]

http://i31.tinypic.com/2i87xg4.jpg

[CaJuNsOuLjA]

^^^ I call Romo chop...

[jus10]

i bash both sides, as im moderate. honestly all the front runners in both parties suck ballz.

Triple!

[AliceInChains02]

i bash both sides, as im moderate. honestly all the front runners in both parties suck ballz.

i've only seen you attack liberals.

[D_UNIT]

if you ride a bike and don't have ins. thats plain stupid.

if you ride a bike and have ins. avail and don't have it, thats beyond stupid.

+1 million on that.

Sad to say that we live in an individualistic country who doesnt care about its elderly and sick. I would suggest take a look into Micheal Moores documentary movie that was very informative. there is always 2 sides too every coin.

As high as Clintons numbers are I cant believe that there are so many in the closest Democrats that wont reply. I guess repubics only live in Texas. :eek3::keke:

[MadseasoN]

(Like I said in another thread)
Please explain this concept to me because I just don't get it:
She want's to force everyone to buy health insurance. If they can "afford" it then they have to pay for it ... if they can't afford it then the gov pays for it or subsidizes it. What kind of f$%$# nonsense is that? Not only is the concept flawed and socialist, it's unfair to the middle class.

On another note, If these people really want to make healthcare affordable then they would regulate the cost of pharmaceuticals. It's absurd that a bottle of pills cost $180.

[cogs69]

(Like I said in another thread)
Please explain this concept to me because I just don't get it:
She want's to force everyone to buy health insurance. If they can "afford" it then they have to pay for it ... if they can't afford it then the gov pays for it or subsidizes it. What kind of f$%$# nonsense is that? Not only is the concept flawed and socialist, it's unfair to the middle class.

On another note, If these people really want to make healthcare affordable then they would regulate the cost of pharmaceuticals. It's absurd that a bottle of pills cost $180.

I dunno, think of all the lawsuits that pharmaceutical companies get for side effects, and the demand isn't high on most medicines. The ones that are don't cost $180/bottle. It costs lots of money to research that stuff. I disagree on the pharmaceuticals. I think the problem are people like Chris24 who refuse to pay for insurance, and then the illegals who when don't have insurance go straight to the ER which can't refuse anyone. How much does an ER visit cost versus just going to the DR? A LOT more. That and lawsuits are where the problem lies. And you know what, when Chris24 has a huge procedure, maybe something life changing like gimpin, who do you think is going to flip the bill? You think HE is going to pay all of it? Nope, it is going to get charged to the rest of us.

[pester]

that effing C*NT is out of her goddamned mind.

i personally do not pay for any health insurance, even though it is available to me. it may seem crazy to some, but i feel strongly about it and i have my reasons.

1) im healthy.

i dont have any crazy health problems that run in my family. i dont have any strange diseases, or conditions. i havnt needed to see a doctor since my parents took me to regular visits as a kid. i simply would not use the insurance. im not going to pay for something i dont use.

2) health care in the US is not only expensive, its shitty.

ever gotten the run around on the service of your bike? the quacks office is no different. all they are interested in is money. my friend had some knee problems, so he went in. they did tests. they called him back to get the results. he had to wait two hours, pay a $30 co-pay to get his results...

WTF...

they couldnt just call him on the phone and say "mr. sir, the tests show that....blah"

nope, cause they were after the $30 and the insurance co. money. **** THAT. i do not need to be dicked around like that for any reason, ESPECIALLY when it comes to my health.

3) im not going to pay for other peoples shit.

im really sorry you have some disease or condition. im not going to pay for your treatment. if you want to pitch in with all the other sick people and split your costs, be my guest. im not throwing money away into your pot.

4) i need more money on my paycheck, not less.

insurance might only be $30 a month, and alot of people try to say "you wont miss it". trust me i would. a couple hours of overtime is alot to me, and it makes a difference. i can get something for that $30, whether it pays for my phone bill or goes to something else, at least it goes to something to get me a little further. paying for insurance im not going to use, no ****ing way, jose.


dude i have had insurance for the last 4 years and only in 2007 alone the insurance paid at least 50,000.00

try to pay that bill with the 30 dollars you save every paycheck

insurance states for you never know

remember never say never anymore, i also pay for my insurance and is damn well spent

[pester]

if you ride a bike and don't have ins. thats plain stupid.

if you ride a bike and have ins. avail and don't have it, thats beyond stupid.


damn dude 1 more of those weird times i agree with you :eek3::eek3::eek3:

[Chris24]

i understand why you all think im crazy, but thats ok.

i dont trust the govt to spend money wisely. maybe if they cleared up the deficit, and quit buying gold plated toilet seats, and wiping their arses with diamond encrusted toilet paper, i might chip in on the insurance. until then, forget it.

i dont trust the insurance co. either. they also only care about money. they will say what you want to hear, but wont put it in writing. they will change their polocies to put more money in their pockets and give you less for your hard earned buck.

i do understand that anything can happen to me at anytime. its a risk i take. we take a risk everytime we get out of bed and walk out the front door. if something bad happens to me, ill make the best of it.

if i get in an accident, and lose a hand, you wont see me with a darth vader robo-arm. give me a $50 hook to strap on my stump and im a happy camper. better yet, ill spend $250 of my own money for a craftsman-like prostethic with a 3/8 inch drive on the end that i can hook the air compressor line up to. sorted.

if for some reason, my DNA turns inside out, my brain swells and the veins on my head pop...

...:eek3:...

...i might die. i was gonna do that eventually anyways. its inevitable. im okay with that.

im not going to spend my life and my income on a bunch of "what-ifs".

[pester]

i understand why you all think im crazy, but thats ok.

i dont trust the govt to spend money wisely. maybe if they cleared up the deficit, and quit buying gold plated toilet seats, and wiping their arses with diamond encrusted toilet paper, i might chip in on the insurance. until then, forget it.

i dont trust the insurance co. either. they also only care about money. they will say what you want to hear, but wont put it in writing. they will change their polocies to put more money in their pockets and give you less for your hard earned buck.

i do understand that anything can happen to me at anytime. its a risk i take. we take a risk everytime we get out of bed and walk out the front door. if something bad happens to me, ill make the best of it.

if i get in an accident, and lose a hand, you wont see me with a darth vader robo-arm. give me a $50 hook to strap on my stump and im a happy camper. better yet, ill spend $250 of my own money for a craftsman-like prostethic with a 3/8 inch drive on the end that i can hook the air compressor line up to. sorted.

if for some reason, my DNA turns inside out, my brain swells and the veins on my head pop...

...:eek3:...

...i might die. i was gonna do that eventually anyways. its inevitable. im okay with that.

im not going to spend my life and my income on a bunch of "what-ifs".

dude i didnt mean to offend you in any manner you can see that in my reply. i just stated that is better be insured, and yes, i am too totally against the insurance companies, bur for 30 bucks a month

im ok with that, now car or bike insurance well,, thats another story

im with you on that one, is just that is your own health

calm down and think about it later, hopefully you change your mind

if not well. i really hope everything goes great your way :thumb:

[Moody]

(Like I said in another thread)
Please explain this concept to me because I just don't get it:
She want's to force everyone to buy health insurance. If they can "afford" it then they have to pay for it ... if they can't afford it then the gov pays for it or subsidizes it. What kind of f$%$# nonsense is that? Not only is the concept flawed and socialist, it's unfair to the middle class.

On another note, If these people really want to make healthcare affordable then they would regulate the cost of pharmaceuticals. It's absurd that a bottle of pills cost $180.

We already do exactly this with Medicaid and Medicare. I don't understand where the force part comes into play though. Sounds like a great way to fatten some insurance pockets.

[Moody]

i understand why you all think im crazy, but thats ok.

i dont trust the govt to spend money wisely. maybe if they cleared up the deficit, and quit buying gold plated toilet seats, and wiping their arses with diamond encrusted toilet paper, i might chip in on the insurance. until then, forget it.

i dont trust the insurance co. either. they also only care about money. they will say what you want to hear, but wont put it in writing. they will change their polocies to put more money in their pockets and give you less for your hard earned buck.

i do understand that anything can happen to me at anytime. its a risk i take. we take a risk everytime we get out of bed and walk out the front door. if something bad happens to me, ill make the best of it.

if i get in an accident, and lose a hand, you wont see me with a darth vader robo-arm. give me a $50 hook to strap on my stump and im a happy camper. better yet, ill spend $250 of my own money for a craftsman-like prostethic with a 3/8 inch drive on the end that i can hook the air compressor line up to. sorted.

if for some reason, my DNA turns inside out, my brain swells and the veins on my head pop...

...:eek3:...

...i might die. i was gonna do that eventually anyways. its inevitable. im okay with that.

im not going to spend my life and my income on a bunch of "what-ifs".

I am pushing for imtemized billing from the IRS. Who wants to join my campaign?

[Azylum]

I am pushing for imtemized billing from the IRS. Who wants to join my campaign?

explain to me what that is (you may have to dumb it down for me), i may follow.

[MadseasoN]

I dunno, think of all the lawsuits that pharmaceutical companies get for side effects, and the demand isn't high on most medicines. The ones that are don't cost $180/bottle. It costs lots of money to research that stuff. I disagree on the pharmaceuticals. I think the problem are people like Chris24 who refuse to pay for insurance, and then the illegals who when don't have insurance go straight to the ER which can't refuse anyone. How much does an ER visit cost versus just going to the DR? A LOT more. That and lawsuits are where the problem lies. And you know what, when Chris24 has a huge procedure, maybe something life changing like gimpin, who do you think is going to flip the bill? You think HE is going to pay all of it? Nope, it is going to get charged to the rest of us.


Pharm. companies post record profits every quarter. They aren't hurting because of a few lawsuits. Our healtcare industry is all about treatment, not cure. That's why the Pharm industry has us by the balls. Ask a Senior Citizen how expensive meds are - I'm sure they will have something to say about it. Actually the whole system is messed up from the floor up, but I believe they are mostly to blame.

This is the way that the system needs to work:
If you can afford health insurance, you pay for it. If you can't afford it, you get a second job. If you're injured and you can't pay your bills because you don't have insurance then you're SOL. Sorry, but that's the brutal truth. Only then would the politicians be forced to fix the system.

[Chris24]

my buddy at work comes from england. he keeps wanting to move back cause our system is so screwed up. since he was a kid he went to the dentist every 6 mo. for free, never had a single cavity etc...came here and now his teeth arent as good, he shit done he cant pay for. thats ****ed up. for all the making fun of brits teeth we do (austin powers, etc) its really quite the opposite in reality in modern times.

over there, they have good doctors who are doctors because they want to take care of ya...not people who want to give you the run around for 5 mins so they can collect money and get back to the tennis court.

i can understand why he wants to go back...sometimes i want to join him.

[Azylum]

ive never had a bad experience with a doctor, nor has anyone in my family, my wifes family, or any of my friends. sounds to me like your friend from england is just pissed because he has to work and pay for his coverage like the rest of us, instead of being a freeloader. you say he "keeps wanting to move back", but guess what, he hasnt. guess our system aint that screwed up after all if its keeping him from doing something so simple as buying a plane ticket.

[Azylum]

btw, i have a few brit friends as well, and they say they will NEVER move back.

[cogs69]

my buddy at work comes from england. he keeps wanting to move back cause our system is so screwed up. since he was a kid he went to the dentist every 6 mo. for free, never had a single cavity etc...came here and now his teeth arent as good, he shit done he cant pay for. thats ****ed up. for all the making fun of brits teeth we do (austin powers, etc) its really quite the opposite in reality in modern times.

over there, they have good doctors who are doctors because they want to take care of ya...not people who want to give you the run around for 5 mins so they can collect money and get back to the tennis court.

i can understand why he wants to go back...sometimes i want to join him.


Ok so I ask you, where does the government get the money to cover paying for the medical expenses for everyone? You think they have special trees it grows on. did you know that up to $1324.25/wk after $197.65 they pull 11% out of your check for NIC (National Insurance Contributions), just for you simple math people that is $123.93/wk JUST for NIC. That is close to your Federal Income tax here in the US. Over $6500/yr goes just to the Insurance the government provides. After you clear the 670# ($1324.25/wk) they drop from 11% down to 1% of everything over that mark. Sorry, but I don't think I pay even close to that for insurance and medical expenses each year. Just think, at that rate, that would be over $120k paid in medical just in 20 years. I tell you what, now THAT is refreshing, let me jump on a plane now.

Here is where you can find the info. http://www.ukstudentlife.com/Work/Employment.htm

And if you don't know how to convert pounds to dollars, here is a site for that. http://coinmill.com/GBP_USD.html#GBP=622

Do some research, you might get more smarter that way. :keke:

[Moody]

explain to me what that is (you may have to dumb it down for me), i may follow.

I want an exact statement of what they spent my money on.

[Squoddybody]

If I choose to not carry insurance, that's my choice, it's a stupid choice, but it's still mine. I just don't want them taking away the choice!

[Fuzzy018]

If I choose to not carry insurance, that's my choice, it's a stupid choice, but it's still mine. I just don't want them taking away the choice!

True, It is your choce.

But your choice, whether you want to or not, effects everyone else.

[Squoddybody]

True, It is your choce.

But your choice, whether you want to or not, effects everyone else.

not nec. I understand the system, I hate system. I vote in every election- even local. And I know that my one little vote won't really matter. It's all the votes added up together that matter.

I believe what Ron Paul spouts, but I know its not going to happen. I know that having Bush in office has put more cash in my pocket. Doesn't mean I like him, doesn't mean I don't... I also know who the president is has very little effect on my life personally :/:

[cogs69]

True, It is your choce.

But your choice, whether you want to or not, effects everyone else.

Thats the only problem I have, when you choose NOT to carry coverage, and something major DOES happen, the rest of us get to carry your burden. :dontknow: I'm on the fence on this idea. I dont like being forced to be covered, BUT I also elect to not only pay for coverage, I pay for the best coverage my company offers for the WHOLE family (90/10).

[logan5]

It comes down to choice and personal responsibility doesn't it? If you ride a bike and don't have medical ... that's plain dumb ... but it's your choice and you make that on your own free will... or at least you should be able to make the choice on your own and not have the government force you into a plan that's just going to suck the living life out of the ecconomy ... if you guys think paying 25-33 percent income tax ... just you wait till you have to fork it up for universal health care.


Libertarians FTW!

[Fuzzy018]

If I choose to not carry insurance, that's my choice, it's a stupid choice, but it's still mine. I just don't want them taking away the choice!

not nec. I understand the system, I hate system. I vote in every election- even local. And I know that my one little vote won't really matter. It's all the votes added up together that matter.

I believe what Ron Paul spouts, but I know its not going to happen. I know that having Bush in office has put more cash in my pocket. Doesn't mean I like him, doesn't mean I don't... I also know who the president is has very little effect on my life personally :/:

I was actually talking about your choince to not carry insurance....

If you have to be trated and can't afford to pay it later because you don;t have insurance....

Guess who ends up picking up the tab?

[jus10]

I dunno, think of all the lawsuits that pharmaceutical companies get for side effects, and the demand isn't high on most medicines. The ones that are don't cost $180/bottle. It costs lots of money to research that stuff. I disagree on the pharmaceuticals.

Demand isn't high on most medicines???? You serious? Dude, you really don't spend money on medication then, 'cause damn, that shit is expensive. Just because you pay 10, 20, or 30 bucks for it doesn't mean that's how much the Pharm. company makes. That's just YOUR end of the payment and insurance pays the other part. Medicine is ridiculously expensive and they make billions a year... they are very much in demand and quite expensive.

Anyone care to wager on whether or not a (or many) cure(s) have come across the FDA but were not approved because we don't cure anything (there's no money in cures on treatments)?

[jus10]

Thats the only problem I have, when you choose NOT to carry coverage, and something major DOES happen, the rest of us get to carry your burden. :dontknow: I'm on the fence on this idea. I dont like being forced to be covered, BUT I also elect to not only pay for coverage, I pay for the best coverage my company offers for the WHOLE family (90/10).

'tis true...

[cogs69]

Demand isn't high on most medicines???? You serious? Dude, you really don't spend money on medication then, 'cause damn, that shit is expensive. Just because you pay 10, 20, or 30 bucks for it doesn't mean that's how much the Pharm. company makes. That's just YOUR end of the payment and insurance pays the other part. Medicine is ridiculously expensive and they make billions a year... they are very much in demand and quite expensive.

Anyone care to wager on whether or not a (or many) cure(s) have come across the FDA but were not approved because we don't cure anything (there's no money in cures on treatments)?

I think you missed my point. Supply/Demand, when the supply is high, cost goes down. Most of the medicines in high demand have come down quite a bit. The comparison was used at $180/bottle. I was contract for 4 years with no medical insurance, and I never paid more than $80 for anything I needed. But I never needed anything more than the normal antibiotics and pain meds that you see every day. The special stuff has a lower demand compared to the cost of research therefore the cost goes up. I think supply/demand versus cost of research is what causes prescription prices, but thats my opinion. It isn't the same as medical. You walk in a pharmacy, if you don't pay, you don't get. You walk in an ER, you get whether you ever pay or not.

[Squoddybody]

I was actually talking about your choince to not carry insurance....

If you have to be trated and can't afford to pay it later because you don;t have insurance....

Guess who ends up picking up the tab?

I understand about cost. My dad is an ER doc. I've worked in med field in the past. SOME people can afford their medical bills by paying cash, and some ppl pay them. My daughter's bill was well over $300k, but I can guarantee the ins paid pennies on the dollar. The only money made by the docs was my co-pays!

If there is a state or country wide ins, doctors salaries will drop so low, the care will be horrendous... Why do you think all those ppl from other countries come here to have things done?

[Fuzzy018]

I understand about cost. My dad is an ER doc. I've worked in med field in the past. SOME people can afford their medical bills by paying cash, and some ppl pay them. My daughter's bill was well over $300k, but I can guarantee the ins paid pennies on the dollar. The only money made by the docs was my co-pays!

If there is a state or country wide ins, doctors salaries will drop so low, the care will be horrendous... Why do you think all those ppl from other countries come here to have things done?


How many of those people are the "wealthy" "finiky" types do you think?

I was in Europe for 6 months. France, Germany, Switzerland, Italy, Portugal and Spain. Everyone I talked to seem pretty happy with their doctors...

[didimao0072000]

hmmm.. isn't this a similar plan REPUBLICAN Mitt Romeny signed into law in Massachusetts? it's funny how when it's presented from one type of person, that person is seen as crazy, b!tch, c$unt, etc. etc.. but nobody say a thing when it comes from a upper class white male...

[Squoddybody]

How many of those people are the "wealthy" "finiky" types do you think?

I was in Europe for 6 months. France, Germany, Switzerland, Italy, Portugal and Spain. Everyone I talked to seem pretty happy with their doctors...

dunno. Just saying. I know my parents pay their bills. :thumb:

Besides, I ALSO said it was a stupid choice to NOT have it!

But I'm FREE and this is America and I don't want my liberties taken away any more than they already are.

[Squoddybody]

hmmm.. isn't this a similar plan REPUBLICAN Mitt Romeny signed into law in Massachusetts? it's funny how when it's presented from one type of person, that person is seen as crazy, b!tch, c$unt, etc. etc.. but nobody say a thing when it comes from a upper class white male...

They are all EVIL! It doesn't matter who's in office, you'll still have to get up on Monday morning and go to work. So, pick the one who suits you best and vote for 'it'. You cannot complain if you don't vote!

[cogs69]

hmmm.. isn't this a similar plan REPUBLICAN Mitt Romeny signed into law in Massachusetts? it's funny how when it's presented from one type of person, that person is seen as crazy, b!tch, c$unt, etc. etc.. but nobody say a thing when it comes from a upper class white male...

Actually, I think it is funnier when people want to point out sex, financial status, and race when something like this is said. I don't think anyone said she was stupid because she was female. In fact, maybe there is a chance that some of us never heard that Romney did that? I know I hadn't, but I still say i'm 50/50 on the idea. I'm going to guess you aren't a white male, because of your comment. :dontknow:

[CaJuNsOuLjA]

Ok so I ask you, where does the government get the money to cover paying for the medical expenses for everyone? You think they have special trees it grows on. did you know that up to $1324.25/wk after $197.65 they pull 11% out of your check for NIC (National Insurance Contributions), just for you simple math people that is $123.93/wk JUST for NIC. That is close to your Federal Income tax here in the US. Over $6500/yr goes just to the Insurance the government provides. After you clear the 670# ($1324.25/wk) they drop from 11% down to 1% of everything over that mark. Sorry, but I don't think I pay even close to that for insurance and medical expenses each year. Just think, at that rate, that would be over $120k paid in medical just in 20 years. I tell you what, now THAT is refreshing, let me jump on a plane now.

Here is where you can find the info. http://www.ukstudentlife.com/Work/Employment.htm

And if you don't know how to convert pounds to dollars, here is a site for that. http://coinmill.com/GBP_USD.html#GBP=622

Do some research, you might get more smarter that way. :keke:

Love the way this was layed out...preciate it. I feel a little better informed...:thumb:

[jus10]

hmmm.. isn't this a similar plan REPUBLICAN Mitt Romeny signed into law in Massachusetts? it's funny how when it's presented from one type of person, that person is seen as crazy, b!tch, c$unt, etc. etc.. but nobody say a thing when it comes from a upper class white male...

Do explain...

(Romney's a lying douche)

What is similar about their plans?

(Romney's a lying douche)

Was his plan made mainstream and/or discussed in a debate?

(Romney's a lying douche)

If you'd pay attention to this thread, many of us can agree it's really a matter of the lesser of the evils at this point...

Oh.... and Romney's a lying douche:D

[CaJuNsOuLjA]

hmmm.. isn't this a similar plan REPUBLICAN Mitt Romeny signed into law in Massachusetts? it's funny how when it's presented from one type of person, that person is seen as crazy, b!tch, c$unt, etc. etc.. but nobody say a thing when it comes from a upper class white male...

Ha, it has nothing to do with her being female or NOT being a white male...I just happen to have a serious problem with the government commandeering more of my money....I get royally FCUKED monthly in taxes and I am curious how this plan would effect me but, the use of my language in creating the thread had absolutely nothing to do with her being a female. I call dudes b!tches all the time...

[jus10]

Ha, it has nothing to do with her being female or NOT being a white male...I just happen to have a serious problem with the government commandeering more of my money....I get royally FCUKED monthly in taxes and I am curious how this plan would effect me but, the use of my language in creating the thread had absolutely nothing to do with her being a female. I call dudes b!tches all the time...

Yeahhhhhhhh bitchesssssss!:rofl:

[Fuzzy018]

They are all EVIL! It doesn't matter who's in office, you'll still have to get up on Monday morning and go to work. So, pick the one who suits you best and vote for 'it'. You cannot complain if you don't vote!

Actually, if you DO vote you can't complain:keke::keke::keke:

The people complaining about Bush are the same people that put him in office!

See,

By not voting, I have the right to complain about who is in office and what they are doing wrong!:keke::keke::keke:








Just kidding..... I took that from George Carlin.

But on a serious note: People vote agains their own self interets a lot of the time because of all the labeling used in this country. Poeple call themselves Republican or Democrat because of peer pressure or gegraphical location or family. I wish we could desolve the two parties and have ony indipendents run. Then the public would be forced to actually listen to the candidates ideas and directions and make informed decisions based upon their own self interests instead of just complying the the forces of their environments. Forces such as: I'm from Texas, I'm Southern, I'm a Republican. Or, Northern, or I'm from Hollywood, I'm a Democrat.

It just all turns into a huge Sh!t Sandwitch.... And we all end up taking a huge bite out of it!:banghead:

[cogs69]

Love the way this was layed out...preciate it. I feel a little better informed...:thumb:

Man, after thinking about it a little, with the Federal, Medicare (which i assume would be phased out by this plan?), SS, and an NIC or equivelant, I would lose close to 50% of every check. :eek3: Thats a lot of frickin money. :confused2:

[cogs69]

Yeahhhhhhhh bitchesssssss!:rofl:

:rofl: I almost posted the same thing. :rofl:

[Squoddybody]

It just all turns into a huge Sh!t Sandwitch.... And we all end up taking a huge bite out of it!:banghead:


EW. :angry7: I don't like sh!t sammiches! :angry7:

But I do love George Carlin! :thumb:

[CaJuNsOuLjA]

But on a serious note: People vote agains their own self interets a lot of the time because of all the labeling used in this country. Poeple call themselves Republican or Democrat because of peer pressure or gegraphical location or family. I wish we could desolve the two parties and have ony indipendents run. Then the public would be forced to actually listen to the candidates ideas and directions and make informed decisions based upon their own self interests instead of just complying the the forces of their environments. Forces such as: I'm from Texas, I'm Southern, I'm a Republican. Or, Northern, or I'm from Hollywood, I'm a Democrat.

It just all turns into a huge Sh!t Sandwitch.... And we all end up taking a huge bite out of it!:banghead:

Gotta agree there...the party system is flawed and has done more harm than good in this country. It has acted as a divisive catalyst separating people on the basis of nomenclature and not basic, intrinsic beliefs. Many Democrats and Republicans believe in many of the same things but because of the party system, they generally can't stand each other...

[CaJuNsOuLjA]

Man, after thinking about it a little, with the Federal, Medicare (which i assume would be phased out by this plan?), SS, and an NIC or equivelant, I would lose close to 50% of every check. :eek3: Thats a lot of frickin money. :confused2:

Hmph, you n me both...I might just say fug it and move to Denmark...

[Fuzzy018]

Hmph, you n me both...I might just say fug it and move to Denmark...

+1 man

Germany or France here I come.

[cogs69]

Gotta agree there...the party system is flawed and has done more harm than good in this country. It has acted as a divisive catalyst separating people on the basis of nomenclature and not basic beliefs. Many Democrats and Republicans believe in many of the same things but because of the party system, they generally can't stand each other...

Only problem is, the two parties are there for checks and balances. I know parliamentary democracy has 3 parties. You still have the problem of people being backed financially. I mean if you don't have corporations backing you, you don't have enough money to campaign. If you don't have enough allies, you don't have enough support to get in position to get into office. Therefore, we will still be picking from a bunch of hee haws that corporations and rich america, so then without parties, it will just be a popularity contest and that is no good either. Maybe democracy is flawed now days?

[CaJuNsOuLjA]

Only problem is, the two parties are there for checks and balances. I know parliamentary democracy has 3 parties. You still have the problem of people being backed financially. I mean if you don't have corporations backing you, you don't have enough money to campaign. If you don't have enough allies, you don't have enough support to get in position to get into office. Therefore, we will still be picking from a bunch of hee haws that corporations and rich america, so then without parties, it will just be a popularity contest and that is no good either. Maybe democracy is flawed now days?

Lol, it's already a popularity contest. Name recognition goes a long way when it comes to earning a presidency.

Democracy is inherently flawed but so is every other governmental system there is out there. Democracy caters to the greedy and heartless. Socialism does the same because of the vast amounts of power allotted to a select few bourgeoisie but the intention of socialism is for people to live as equals across the board. Human nature hinders our ability to ever truly have such a system (Socialist-read 1984). Anarchy allows for our human tendency towards violence to be released. Confusionism, it's all flawed...mostly because we as a species are flawed...

[Fuzzy018]

You would think socialism would be ok here since.......


you know.......

"all men are created equal".......

just a though.

[CaJuNsOuLjA]

You would think socialism would be ok here since.......


you know.......

"all men are created equal".......

just a though.

No, read...socialism is good in theory but CAN NEVER and WILL NEVER be accomplished here on earth by and group of Humans. Greed and thirst for power will ALWAYS hinder such an accomplishment...

[CaJuNsOuLjA]

^^Sorry for sounding like an asshole here...just responded quick, was in a rush. Wasn't my intention...

...was my intention, however, in the other thread :keke:

[Squoddybody]

You would think socialism would be ok here since.......


you know.......

"all men are created equal".......

just a though.

All men are most certainly NOT created equally. :angry7: Some are criminals and crackheads.

[logan5]

heard a great quote ...

"A government large enough to give you everything you want, is large enough to take away everything you have"

[Rick H.I.C.]

Clinton health plan may mean tapping pay

WASHINGTON - Democrat Hillary Rodham Clinton said Sunday she might be willing to garnish the wages of workers who refuse to buy health insurance to achieve coverage for all Americans.
ADVERTISEMENT

The New York senator has criticized presidential rival Barack Obama for pushing a health plan that would not require universal coverage. Clinton has not always specified the enforcement measures she would embrace, but when pressed on ABC's "This Week," she said: "I think there are a number of mechanisms" that are possible, including "going after people's wages, automatic enrollment."

Clinton said such measures would apply only to workers who can afford health coverage but refuse to buy it, which puts undue pressure on hospitals and emergency rooms. With her proposals for subsidies, she said, "it will be affordable for everyone."

Clinton also suggested that Obama would be more susceptible to Republican attack ads in a general election because he has not been scrutinized for years as she has.

"I've been through the Republican attacks over and over again," she said. When Obama was elected to the Senate from Illinois in 2004, she said, he "didn't face anyone who ran attack ads" comparable to those aimed at her.

The presidential contenders in both parties campaigned all-out on Sunday, two days before the Super Tuesday voting in 24 states holding primaries or caucuses.

Clinton was campaigning in Missouri and Minneapolis. Obama scheduled a rally in Wilmington, Del., while some of his highest-profile surrogates — his wife, Michelle, Oprah Winfrey and Caroline Kennedy — were rallying voters in Los Angeles. Among Republicans, Arizona Sen. John McCain was stumping in Connecticut and former Massachusetts Gov. Mitt Romney scheduled stops in Glen Ellyn, Ill., and the St. Louis suburb of Maryland Heights. Former Arkansas Gov. Mike Huckabee was concentrating on the South, with appearances in Georgia and Tennessee.

McCain told "Fox News Sunday" he would veto any tax increase passed by a Democratic-controlled Congress. McCain, who opposed President Bush's first two tax cuts, now says Congress should make the reductions permanent, and that there also should be further tax reductions for business investments.

His chief rival, Romney, told the ABC program that McCain "doesn't understand the economy" and that his advocacy of a higher gasoline tax to combat global warming would hurt U.S. consumers.

Romney also called on Huckabee to drop from the race. In response, called the suggestion "ludicrous," noting that only a fraction of the delegates needed to win the Republican presidential nomination had been apportioned thus far.

"I've got a different take on that. I think it's time for Mitt Romney to step aside," Huckabee said on CNN.

Link (http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080203/ap_on_el_pr/campaign_rdp_31)

Clinton: Not sure how to put this???? Um, oh yeah, I told you......:angry7:

[Chris24]

Do some research, you might get more smarter that way. :keke:

some good points but your comparing apples to donuts. i have alot more faith in the UK's ability to spend money wisely than in the US. same goes for the quality of their healthcare as well. something tells me that if you really compared it, the pound would net you alot more in the uk than the dollar does in the US (speaking in terms of healthcare, of course) and yes with factoring in exchange rates.

[houseofpaint]

okay.....everyone that is for clinton's health bill....:angry7:

she can take her views on healthcare and shove it up her ass.

they ain't lying when they say this is a free country.......we are giving our country away to EVERYONE for FREEEE!!!! i despise the democratic ways.

[cogs69]

some good points but your comparing apples to donuts. i have alot more faith in the UK's ability to spend money wisely than in the US. same goes for the quality of their healthcare as well. something tells me that if you really compared it, the pound would net you alot more in the uk than the dollar does in the US (speaking in terms of healthcare, of course) and yes with factoring in exchange rates.

Yea, that I wouldn't know. I would have to do some comparisons. And I wouldn't disagree at all about their ability to spend the money wiser, but I also like the fact that healthcare doesn't cost me such a high percentage of my salary here. :dontknow: its all give/take either way. I'm staying put. :thumb:

[Chris24]

well, im staying put as well. actually, im hoping for the day when i can leave the USA without leaving texas if you know what im sayin.

though something tells me the "national healthcare plan" for texas would mean "keeping a shotgun in your home" but, im ok with that.

[cogs69]

well, im staying put as well. actually, im hoping for the day when i can leave the USA without leaving texas if you know what im sayin.

though something tells me the "national healthcare plan" for texas would mean "keeping a shotgun in your home" but, im ok with that.

That would be a good day to me as well. :thumb::notworthy:

[Moody]

I am in search of a new country that is at the least up front about there policies. World tour begins this summer.

[Rick H.I.C.]

I am in search of a new country that is at the least up front about there policies. World tour begins this summer.

It was this country until socialism took a foot hold. :angry7:
If you find a country without socialism, that can enforce their laws, as well as keep greed and lawyers in check let me know. That's where I'll be. :thumb:
P.S. Good Surf, Snow, and Track are three more prerequisites.:happy3: