are we "free"

[witchdoctor575]

check this crap out... california sucks.

http://www.iht.com/articles/2008/01/11/america/calif.php

[amber|alexis]

wow...but define "new or substantially modified houses" :/:

[witchdoctor575]

does it matter... they want the ability to control items in the citizens homes. That opens pandoras box of govt control of anything in YOUR house.

[txgsxrbob]

DID NOT OPEN !!

[matemike]

DID NOT OPEN !!

^PAGE NOT FOUND

[BrutusTx]

As much problem as they've had with rolling blackouts it makes sense. Nobody liked seat belts either.........

[witchdoctor575]

the page might not open the first time... try it again... I had to try a couple of times before it opened. Must be a california thing..

[BrutusTx]

Must be a california thing..

Careful now......:angry7:

[witchdoctor575]

As much problem as they've had with rolling blackouts it makes sense. Nobody liked seat belts either.........

so you would be ok with the govt setting the temps in your house?

[sbfuller]

my gf just said, "we're never living in california again!!"

[BrutusTx]

so you would be ok with the govt setting the temps in your house?

I didn't say I'd like it, but I have been thru 10-12 hr blackouts before and I didn't like that either. Some less fortunate people have died for lack of electricity, if it prevented that it would be a good thing.

[witchdoctor575]

wouldn't a better solution be build another power plant?

[BrutusTx]

wouldn't a better solution be build another power plant?

That's like a refinery........build one in somebody else's back yard. We all want the benefits, but nobody wants to have it next door.

[witchdoctor575]

well last I saw there was a lot of barron empty land in cali. they could easily build one among all the wind generators that are an eye sore on the landscape.

[RinasDaddy]

Wow...overriding? In your home? That's crazy..

[Solracer]

i dont see why electricity costs so much, we keep making windmills, soloar panels etc...dams are a constant source.

[ArturoC]

Screw that!!!

As far as the rolling blackouts they had, according to the documentary "The Smartest Guys In The Room", that was mostly caused by Enron. :dontknow:

[ninjathatcould]

Here's the problem. Humans are going to become so dependent upon authority figures to tell them what to do, they will forget how to think for themselves. We can't handle four way stop signs, so we have traffic lights at every corner. We can't manage our temperature correctly, so we have radio devices to do it for us. We can't decide on a presidential candidate, so the TV tells us who to vote for.

God damn it! Why are people so ****ing stupid?!

[Azylum]

i didnt even click the link. i knew cali sucked ass before i was old enough to read a news paper.

[ninjathatcould]

rofl... indeed.

the governator actually said once that he dreamed of being a dictator.
california blows, its turning into the shittiest state... or already is.

[Jay]

^..............hahaha

[OMEGA]

i dont see why electricity costs so much, we keep making windmills, soloar panels etc...dams are a constant source.

i believe its a way for profitable oil production, i hate to say it but this country is ran by oil companies

[Sifu-TZ]

my bro lives in the bay area. there's a real mixed bag out there. lots of normal people, but a bunch of WAY leftists, total loons. back in the day a liberal person was viewed as someone who had an open mind. now, if you disagree with their leftists ways you're a hatemongerer. it's turned completely opposite of what it used to mean. it's "freethinking" as long as you agree. these people will agree to ANYTHING if it's sold right.

[houseofpaint]

I didn't say I'd like it, but I have been thru 10-12 hr blackouts before and I didn't like that either. Some less fortunate people have died for lack of electricity, if it prevented that it would be a good thing.

"Those Who Sacrifice Liberty For Security Deserve Neither."

- Benjamin Franklin

[Squoddybody]

:eek3: NO GOV'T CONTROL OVER ANYTHING! :eek3:

Too many freakin people out there... I'm just glad I'll be dead (hopefully) or too senile to realize it when there's not enough power or gas or food for everybody...

[Whorenet]

f this govt. intervention its total bullshit.

want a GREAT AND VIABLE solution to our countries energy
"crisis"


mandate solar pannel farms on all commercial building rooftops....those can power ALL OF THE "community" needs.....and it won't have an effect on private citizens....business pay taxes...cut their taxes back 5 percent for using their rooftops to provide state funded AND MAINTAINED solar farms....not only will the pannels generate electricity but they will cut down on usage...think about how much elec. it takes to cool a 60,000 sqft store thats 30ft tall...thats 1.8mil cubic ft of airspace....what if you had reflective pannels blocking the suns energy from being absorbed by the tar papered roof?

also the maintainance crews mentioned above will provide more jobs for the community thus decreasing the unemployment rate. you could give community colleges the abaility to offer tech cert classes at no cost and make them govt. funded as well. lab fees for the program would be nil because the lab would be EVERY ROOF in the area. AND THIS WOULD INCREASE THE EDUCATION LEVEL OF THE COMMUNITY? genius....pure genius...

its simple common sense guys...

ME FOR PRESIDENT!

[Faylaricia]

its simple common sense guys...

And see, that is the problem. There is no common sense in politics, only special interests, lobbyists and money.

[lilmckee]

f this govt. intervention its total bullshit.

want a GREAT AND VIABLE solution to our countries energy
"crisis"


mandate solar pannel farms on all commercial building rooftops....those can power ALL OF THE "community" needs.....and it won't have an effect on private citizens....business pay taxes...cut their taxes back 5 percent for using their rooftops to provide state funded AND MAINTAINED solar farms....not only will the pannels generate electricity but they will cut down on usage...think about how much elec. it takes to cool a 60,000 sqft store thats 30ft tall...thats 1.8mil cubic ft of airspace....what if you had reflective pannels blocking the suns energy from being absorbed by the tar papered roof?

also the maintainance crews mentioned above will provide more jobs for the community thus decreasing the unemployment rate. you could give community colleges the abaility to offer tech cert classes at no cost and make them govt. funded as well. lab fees for the program would be nil because the lab would be EVERY ROOF in the area. AND THIS WOULD INCREASE THE EDUCATION LEVEL OF THE COMMUNITY? genius....pure genius...

its simple common sense guys...

ME FOR PRESIDENT!


Thats not half bad. Its gonna cost ALOT of money up front.


That wouldnt work as well in the northern states, But for the more sunny places, that would probably work in some way

[Faylaricia]

Thats not half bad. Its gonna cost ALOT of money up front.


That wouldnt work as well in the northern states, But for the more sunny places, that would probably work in some way

Businesses could be given big tax incentives to convert to alternative energy.

In Europe, they built a lot like this. For example, a Ford building with soil and plants on top. The water is collected and used for energy, as well as solar panels. Windows are designed to let the most light in in the winter time to help with warmth and so on. In the end, it saves them a lot of money as energy costs are pretty high for a business.

[Fuzzy018]

no we just think we are

[gunshotwound]

see, thats what happens when you elect left wing nuts. by god if i am paying the bill, they will control my thermostat when they pry my cold dead fingers off of it! nuff said:angry7:

[NoFear]

i dont see why electricity costs so much, we keep making windmills, soloar panels etc...dams are a constant source.

Say's who?

http://www.cnn.com/2008/TECH/science/01/16/klamath.dams.ap/index.html

Smashing dams to save salmon

GRANTS PASS, Oregon (AP) -- More than 300 miles of struggling salmon runs would be restored along the Klamath River as part of a landmark $1 billion proposal that represents the largest dam removal project in the nation's history.


The Copco No. 1 dam in California is one of four that would be torn down to help Klamath River salmon.


The plan, announced Tuesday, followed two years of closed-door negotiations between farmers, Indian tribes, fishermen, conservation groups and government agencies battling over the fate of scarce water and fish protected by the Endangered Species Act.

"What we've come up with is a blueprint for how to solve the Klamath crisis," said Craig Tucker, a coordinator for the Karuk Tribe, which has been working for years to restore dwindling salmon catches that were once key to members' diet and culture.

The proposal calls for the scrapping of four aging hydroelectric dams that have stood on the river for nearly a century -- providing electricity for 70,000 customers but also blocking salmon from reaching their spawning grounds.

The agreement faces significant hurdles. It must be reviewed by federal agencies, including the U.S. Justice Department, and the dams' owner, PacifiCorp, which must agree to their removal, perhaps as soon as 2015.

In addition to money already being spent to mitigate the impact of the dams, the deal also calls for some $400 million in new spending on salmon restoration, primarily from Congress, for a total of $1 billion over 10 years.

The plan contains no provision for paying the estimated $180 million to remove the dams, leaving that to PacifiCorp, a unit of MidAmerican Energy Holdings Co., which is controlled by Warren Buffett's Berkshire Hathaway Inc.

PacifiCorp has previously said it would be willing to remove the dams if its ratepayers don't have to pay. But it has also been pursuing a new 30- or 50-year operating license, which would require it to spend about $300 million to build fish ladders.

"It's worth taking a pretty serious look at it," said PacifiCorp spokesman Paul Vogel, who noted his company wasn't part of the negotiations. "We don't know whether anyone has seriously represented our customers on our behalf, because our customers have to be protected in this."

Steve Thompson, director of the California-Nevada office of the U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service in Sacramento, California, said the Bush administration has supported the settlement process, but the plan must be reviewed by federal agencies.

Thompson added that he knew of no dam removal project in the country that has restored more habitat or would generate more fish, and characterized the new spending as a better investment than past disaster relief to farmers and fishermen.

Opposition to the agreement is coming from the Hoopa Valley Tribe, based on the Trinity River, which flows into the Klamath below the dams; some farmers who are not part of the Klamath Reclamation Project; and two conservation groups tossed out of the talks last spring, Oregon Wild and WaterWatch.

Hoopa Chairman Clifford Marshall said the agreement gives irrigation water priority over the needs of salmon and requires the tribe to waive its water rights on behalf of fish, without any hard assurances the dams would come out.

"Dangling a carrot like this will not work for Hoopa," he said.

Luther Horsley, president of the Klamath Water Users Association, which represents the 1,000 farms on the project, said farmers would achieve their goals of predictable irrigation deliveries, affordable power for irrigation pumps, and freedom from future lawsuits involving endangered species.

Steve Pedery of Oregon Wild and Robert Hunter of WaterWatch said they were skeptical that the deal could actually produce the extra water that salmon need to thrive, or that Congress could come up with the money. They characterized the agreement as a sweetheart deal for the Bush administration to give farmers what they want.

The Klamath, straddling the Oregon-California line, was once the third most productive salmon river system on the West Coast, but it has declined because of misguided hatchery practices, overfishing, development and the loss of habitat to dams, mining, and logging.

Fish returns have become so small that in 2006 commercial salmon fishing had to be nearly shut down off most of Oregon and California, causing a federal disaster declaration. E-mail to a friend

Copyright 2008 The Associated Press. All rights reserved.This material may not be published, broadcast, rewritten, or redistributed.

[Whorenet]

Thats not half bad.

i r the stufid