Curious about your opinions on suspension... [Archive]

dhdrider

06-09-2005, 04:10 PM

Just from reading posts on this site and a couple of other boards I frequent (RC51 specific). Almost everyone talks up that Ohlins is the only way to go. It gets me thinking why that is. Is it that people w/ Penske/Elka/Fox etc. stuff just don't talk about it as much? I don't know. I have rebuilt forks on the front w/ a Penske double-clicker on the rear.

For what it's worth, prior to buying my Penske rear shock, I called Traxxion Dynamics in Georgia who sells Ohlins, Elka, and Penske. I told them I had $$$ to spend on a shock and I would basically buy what they recommended reguardless of brand or price. He told me that from the testing they had done that on the Ohlins 3-way they could never realize any discernable difference w/ the low-speed compression adjustment. :eek3: After talking about all 3 brands and all the different shocks they make, he said if it were him, he would just get the $700 Penske 2-way adjustable.

Do you most of you get your suspension preferences from other riders input? Reading reviews? Who wins races? Peer pressure, or what?

CarbonJames

06-09-2005, 04:16 PM

people with ohlins have toooooo much bloody money,,,

Steve O Chap

06-09-2005, 04:22 PM

I know Patrick Hart of Motorcycles Unlimited is an Ohlins guy all the way... all his personal bikes get Ohlin's all the way, rear shock AND forks. Those bikes are unreal. Marcus McBain of RPS is a Penske guy, and he is one of the best suspension tuners you'll ever meet. Andy from Metric Motorcycles is a RaceTech guys. I believe he is one of the only RaceTech certified technicians in the Houston area. I've never ridden a bike with a RaceTech rear shock, but I know Charles (paniro) has it done to his bike and he swears by it. Andy claims, and I beleive him, that he can get a RaceTech'd rear shock to handle as good as any Ohlins, Penske or Elka shock.

Personally, if money were no object... I'd get Ohlins forks and rear shock. I like the shiny gold...

But, I've ridden many bikes with a RaceTech front end and it's a beautiful thing compared to stock suspension... it really is amazing with the difference.

My bike is going in soon to get RaceTech'd front end... I'm suffering with bone stock equipment front and rear and the times I'm putting at TWS are really starting to show mid corner. When I spoke with Andy, he said that for the 2:05s I'm doing I need to have a very aggressive suspension set up.

No offense to any of the guys here, but there just isn't near the track/race knowledge on this board as HSN or TSBA... I'd post up there and see what those folks have to say.

dhdrider

06-09-2005, 04:50 PM

No offense to Patrick at MU, but he makes more money on a $1000-$1200 Ohlins shock than he does a $700-$800 Penske. What better way to get people to buy Ohlins than put it on your "own stuff." I was just intrigued when I said to the guys at Traxxion, "I have $1200 to spend on any 3 of those brands." And he recommended I go with the Penske 2-way...

paniro187

06-09-2005, 05:11 PM

Steve O Chap

06-09-2005, 05:23 PM

I have no qualms about it... :keke: No offense taken.

But think of it this way... he's in it to make money. I'd like to maximize my earnings as well. Besides, I don't think he is even a supplier of Penske stuff.

linjy2

06-09-2005, 05:28 PM

i plan to have my front and rear raceteched. good enough for my needs because i'm not racing.

paniro187

06-09-2005, 05:28 PM

well steve, *I'd trust the thoughts on a person that sells both rther than a person that sell one and pushes it over the other *:eh:

CBR RN

06-09-2005, 05:30 PM

*Speaking of ohlins, I have an Ohlins rear shock for sale: *To fit Honda CBR F4i: 2001-present models. *Pretty much brand new, less than 100 miles on it. *

Capafool

06-09-2005, 08:16 PM

No offense to Patrick at MU, but he makes more money on a $1000-$1200 Ohlins shock than he does a $700-$800 Penske.* What better way to get people to buy Ohlins than put it on your "own stuff."* I was just intrigued when I said to the guys at Traxxion, "I have $1200 to spend on any 3 of those brands."* And he recommended I go with the Penske 2-way...

I have hypercoil shock spring and traxxion Dynamic front springs.* They've worked great for me.* I have done some of this research too and I guess if u have the cash on the Ohlins then it wouldn't hurt... But do u really need it?* Ty howard I believe races w/penske rear and traxxion Dynamic cartridges front and he's Faaaast!* u dont need to have all that expensive shit to be good and if something happens to your bike it's just gonna cost that much more to get the damn thing fixed!* So with that said, get something that will work for you.* W/the setup u have I dont think I would spend anything on suspension unless u need a rebuild for it.* Spend that cash on somethin else for your bike!* :biggrin: Unless you're pullin like 1:55s and know its your suspension holding you back I dont think that u should spend the money... but that's just me.* If I had the cash i would get a penske shock for the rear and perhaps change my front cartridges to Traxxion Dynamics.* But its just an opinion.* Be cool* :icon_thumright:

as a matter of fact, if im not mistakin I was lookin at some prices for shocks and some penske shock was more than the Ohlins one.

Capafool

06-09-2005, 08:18 PM

Marcus McBain did my suspension and im not tryin to advertise either, but check out his site... www.roadracinghelp.com He's a suspension guy and has TONS of stuff there on suspension info.. It might help find and answer to something :biggthumpup:

Patrick

06-09-2005, 09:20 PM

Just to set the record straight for some people who have absolutley no idea what they're talking about;
1) I average between $80.00 to $100.00 profit on an Ohlins shock. I use them because they work, I prefer the large orifice valving they use over some of the other brands. Plus they require less maintenance / less frequent rebuilds.

2) I sell all brands, Penske included, I actually make more profit on a Penske, plus you'll be coming back to me more often for maintenance. So I'd actually make more money. Once again your babbling holds no water.

3) Race Tech is great stuff, I've used it for years with great results. I don't particularly care to use it in shocks however, because IMO most stock shocks don't give you predictable linear results, even when Race Teched. BTW, for what it's worth I make the most profit % from Race Tech sales / installation. So anyone who says I recommend a product because of it's profitability is talking out their ass.

Patrick

BubbaRRay

06-09-2005, 09:37 PM

people with ohlins have toooooo much bloody money,,,

+1 on that, too much freakin money
Before I did any suspension work to my bike I talked to a lot of different people about it.* Some of them with the same bike as me, some without.* The one thing that stuck in my mind was when one of my buddies said, What do all of the good professional race teams use?...Ohlins
Now I'm not saying that to slam on anyone else, I'm just putting in my 2 cents.* I don't have any idea how anything else works, because I have never used it.* I just know what I have, and I really like it.

Patrick

06-09-2005, 09:51 PM

Actually the current trend among front line AMA and WSB teams is either; Ohlins, WP, or Showa. Penske is next to unheard of.
Not to say it's a bad shock, it's a good piece, I just believe there are better ones out there.

Patrick

arturo3rd

06-10-2005, 12:00 AM

But think of it this way... he's in it to make money. I'd like to maximize my earnings as well. Besides, I don't think he is even a supplier of Penske stuff.

who do you take your bike to then?

OutlawDCustoMs

06-10-2005, 12:46 AM

Patrick rox for all sorts of customer service... gota love the guy, he's been there for me and everything as a new up and comer. for suspension, i don't really want to badmouth anyone, so i'm gonna keep my mouth shut on this issue. After I had all sorts of jacked up cold tear on my tires, patrick helped me out and set my suspension up a bit, went to race the first race, i was kinda describing my problems to mike sanchez since i pitted right by him, and before i could go back to patrick about my suspension he got don finelli to do some clicks and stuff, my suspension was golden after that for the second race. so i guess i could say the combination of both? i've talked to quite a few guys about don, and they say he's always right and he's the best, he's just hard to work with... i mean 300 to setup your suspension HOLY COW, anyhow i hear great stuff about don, andy, patrick, and marcus....but i have my views as well as experiences with each, except andy

paniro187

06-10-2005, 04:41 AM

Patrick rox for all sorts of customer service... gota love the guy, he's been there for me and everything as a new up and comer.* for suspension, i don't really want to badmouth anyone, so i'm gonna keep my mouth shut on this issue.* After I had all sorts of jacked up cold tear on my tires, patrick helped me out and set my suspension up a bit, went to race the first race, i was kinda describing my problems to mike sanchez since i pitted right by him, and before i could go back to patrick about my suspension he got don finelli to do some clicks and stuff, my suspension was golden after that for the second race.* so i guess i could say the combination of both?* i've talked to quite a few guys about don, and they say he's always right and he's the best, he's just hard to work with... i mean 300 to setup your suspension HOLY COW, anyhow i hear great stuff about don, andy, patrick, and marcus....but i have my views as well as experiences with each, except andy
every rapper ain't a star, and every plaid ain't Burberry

paniro187

06-10-2005, 04:44 AM

Steve O Chap

06-10-2005, 07:46 AM

who do you take your bike to then?

I have only taken my bike to Patrick at Motorcycles Unlimited unlimited.... no one else has touched it. That's where I bought my leathers, 2 other Fieldsheer jackets other various accessories.

CarbonJames

06-10-2005, 07:47 AM

MU set up my front and rear susp. also...
known patrick along time,, use to ride with him back in the day...

SBK Pilot

06-10-2005, 08:19 AM

who do you take your bike to then?

i think we're fortunate to have two good local shops here in town... pretty much whatever you want, you can get done at either m-u (http://www.motorcycles-unlimited.com) or metric (http://www.metricmotorcycles.com)...

patrick's shop is the number one Öhlins (http://www.ohlins.com) place in this part of the country and andy's shop is the only authorized Race-Tech (http://www.race-tech.com) center around here... so they're both DAMN good... i've done business with them both...

the latest mods i've done (suspension wise) was racetech my front forks w/andy... absolutely amazing performance from the front now... it feels like a different bike... i mean it literally SLICES through the corners now!...

so no matter your preference - all i ask is for ya'll to support your local shops... b/c again we're really lucky to have the choices we do here in h-town and they both seriously rock!...* :headbang:

Steve O Chap

06-10-2005, 08:24 AM

the latest mods i've done (suspension wise) was racetech my front forks w/andy... absolutely amazing performance from the front now... it feels like a different bike... i mean it literally SLICES through the corners now!...

Yeah, I was actually talking to Patrick at MSR about getting my front RaceTech'd... thats the next project on my list. I should have it done by the July TWS trackday. Just gotta convince the wifey. :rolleyes:

paniro187

06-10-2005, 08:25 AM

trying to hold in my experience. must.....................d.................o it........................

dhdrider

06-10-2005, 08:26 AM

Just so that everyone knows, I didn't mean to ruffle anyone's feathers w/ this topic. *The main thing I was interested in was mostly where people get their preference...

Patrick- *I appologize if I mis-spoke about your profit margins. *It's actually really surprising that your margins are that small on that stuff. *I didn't mean to infer that you outfit people w/ Ohlins just because you can or make more money or whatever. *I know Ohlins is good shit. *Don't get me wrong, if I had $3K burning a hole in my wallet I would probably buy some Ohlins forks and an Ohlins rear. *Also, according to Traxxion dynamics, if you're racing or doing lots of trackdays, every rear shock (Ohlins, Penske, Elka, etc) needs to be rebuilt every year. *Is this conflicting with your opinion, Patrick?

Patrick

06-10-2005, 08:50 AM

Dhdrider, most of my post was not directed at anything you said, actually I should apologize for hijacking your thread and not really answering your question. That being said here's my opinion; Most of the suspension stuff out there is pretty good, especially if you're just doing trak days or occasionally racing.
I've used Ohlins, Penske, Fox, Koni, and WP shocks and have had good results. I've revalved front ends / raced bikes with Racetech, Traxxion, Lindemann, Thermosman, and Ohlins, also with good results.
I guess through the years I've developed some opinions though on what I like / tunes well / lasts. I've torn down shocks at the end of the season and many times found the Ohlins tear down was unnecessary, wheras most of the Penskes I've done needed it. I think alot of it goes into fluid managemnent and the way the different mfrs go about dampening. That being said IMO front fork servicing is often the most overlooked, whater the bike is stock or has high performance internals installed. The valving in the forks are more affected by the breakdown of the oil and are also much more subject to stiction. Any track bike should have it's forks serviced at least once during a season (not including the year end service). Even street bikes should have a service done at least every 10k miles.

Patrick

ufo34

06-10-2005, 09:32 AM

Dhdrider, most of my post was not directed at anything you said, actually I should apologize for hijacking your thread and not really answering your question.* * *That being said here's my opinion; Most of the suspension stuff out there is pretty good, especially if you're just doing trak days or occasionally racing.
* I've used Ohlins, Penske, Fox, Koni, and WP shocks and have had good results.* I've revalved front ends / raced bikes with Racetech, Traxxion, Lindemann, Thermosman, and Ohlins, also with good results.
I guess through the years I've developed some opinions though on what I like / tunes well / lasts. I've torn down shocks at the end of the season and many times found the Ohlins tear down was unnecessary, wheras most of the Penskes I've done needed it. I think alot of it goes into fluid managemnent and the way the different mfrs go about dampening. That being said IMO front fork servicing is often the most overlooked, whater the bike is stock or has high performance internals installed. The valving in the forks are more affected by the breakdown of the oil and are also much more subject to stiction. Any track bike should have it's forks serviced at least once during a season (not including the year end service). Even street bikes should have a service done at least every 10k miles.

Patrick

thanks for the knowledge, its always good to hear from people who have had all different brands. I hear people recommending to others about stuff that they don't even have on their own bikes. so far i have no complaints about my Ohlins they do their job everytime.

OutlawDCustoMs

06-10-2005, 12:39 PM

coming from what i hear, it really depends what suspension guys tune what, cause i know everyone in tx except for patrick are penske guys

Capafool

06-10-2005, 11:27 PM

coming from what i hear, it really depends what suspension guys tune what, cause i know everyone in tx except for patrick are penske guys

Yeah a lot of people I see out there do use penske. But like patrick said they're all good and if you're kicking ass w/whatever setup u got then why change. If u talk to different people they will give you different experiences and views, that's just the nature of humans, so if you're looking for something which everyone will agree on that's probably never gonna happen. So when you come across getting suspension just do a little research and make up your damn mind and your OWN decision! you'll never know until you've tried and experienced :biggthumpup:

OutlawDCustoMs

06-11-2005, 09:15 AM

coming from what i hear, it really depends what suspension guys tune what, cause i know everyone in tx except for patrick are penske guys

Yeah a lot of people I see out there do use penske.* But like patrick said they're all good and if you're kicking ass w/whatever setup u got then why change.* If u talk to different people they will give you different experiences and views, that's just the nature of humans, so if you're looking for something which everyone will agree on that's probably never gonna happen.* So when you come across getting suspension just do a little research and make up your damn mind and your OWN decision!* you'll never know until you've tried and experienced* :biggthumpup:

+1

Steve O Chap

06-13-2005, 08:55 AM

coming from what i hear, it really depends what suspension guys tune what, cause i know everyone in tx except for patrick are penske guys

Yeah a lot of people I see out there do use penske.* But like patrick said they're all good and if you're kicking ass w/whatever setup u got then why change.* If u talk to different people they will give you different experiences and views, that's just the nature of humans, so if you're looking for something which everyone will agree on that's probably never gonna happen.* So when you come across getting suspension just do a little research and make up your damn mind and your OWN decision!* you'll never know until you've tried and experienced* :biggthumpup:

+1
:iamwithstupid:

Moody

06-13-2005, 09:22 AM

Well lets see here... I ride a stock ass 2003 600RR and with the recommended tires and suspension settings getting handled at Motorcycles Unlimited I am running around a 2:07 at TWS in the level2 group my last time out with the Ride Smart guys. Seeing as how I was having to try and get around alot of traffic and passing on the inside is not allowed in that group I would say that is a fair time and Lapping a guy on a GSXR-1000 3 times in one session feels pretty good too. Now I am hoping to bump that time down a little on my trip out to TWS on the 20th with Lonestar and having some trackside support from the Motorcycles Unlimited crew. Yes, Patrick and Motorcycles Unlimited is at all of the Lonestar Track Days and CMRA racing events. Can anybody say that is not the best customer service one could want? Oh, you don' ride the track? Well last I checked Motorcycles Unlimited has been known to go pick up wrecked bikes on the street as well and I personally like having a bussiness and group of guys like that in my corner. :icon_thumright:

Support your local shops and they will support you.

paniro187

06-13-2005, 09:27 AM

Support your local shops and they will support you.
say that all you want but if a big store has a cheaper price i'm jumping on it. local shop or big shop. i'll be damn if i "support my local shop and pay more" So i say go where the price for the product is cheaper.

Moody

06-13-2005, 09:33 AM

paniro187

06-13-2005, 09:39 AM

Support your local shops and they will support you.
say that all you want but if a big store has a cheaper price i'm jumping on it. local shop or big shop.* i'll be damn if i "support my local shop and pay more"* So i say go where the price for the product is cheaper.

Well... pricing should always be competitive but, more times then not it seems people see price illusions because they forget about shipping charges and time to the door. Everybody likes to get a deal though.* :icon_thumright:
i"m talking that 225 deal on pilot power tires that cycle gear had. LOL I'd be damn if i pay more. that was for a set. You'd probably support your local shop and pay that for a rear. I think you know what i'm saying though.

Steve O Chap

06-13-2005, 11:00 AM

Well lets see here... I ride a stock ass 2003 600RR and with the recommended tires and suspension settings getting handled at Motorcycles Unlimited I am running around a 2:07 at TWS in the level2 group my last time out with the Ride Smart guys.

I know what you mean... I'm stuck with stock F4i equipment! :eek3: It sucks, haha... but I had the fork fluid changed recently and that made a nice difference.

Moody

06-13-2005, 01:00 PM

Well lets see here... I ride a stock ass 2003 600RR and with the recommended tires and suspension settings getting handled at Motorcycles Unlimited I am running around a 2:07 at TWS in the level2 group my last time out with the Ride Smart guys.

I know what you mean... I'm stuck with stock F4i equipment!* :eek3: It sucks, haha... but I had the fork fluid changed recently and that made a nice difference.

I need to do all my fluids too.... :eh:

SBK Pilot

06-13-2005, 01:34 PM

removing the forks is easy... take'em off and cage'm over to andy @ metricmotorcycles...

that's what i did...* :biggthumpup:

(saves u $$$)* :icon_thumright:

paniro187

06-13-2005, 01:38 PM

removing the forks is easy... take'em off and cage'm over to andy @ metricmotorcycles...

that's what i did...* :biggthumpup:

(saves u $$$)** :icon_thumright:
+1 and I'll help you if you want.

Capafool

06-13-2005, 07:32 PM