How Long Do We Have?

[Gigolo Jason]

This is NOT intended to be Dem vs Rep. I just thought it was an interesting read.

How Long Do We Have?

About the time our original thirteen states adopted their new constitution in 1787, Alexander Tyler, a Scottish history professor at the University of Edinburgh , had this to say about the fall of the Athenian Republic some 2,000 years earlier:

"A democracy is always temporary in nature; it simply cannot exist as a permanent form of government."

"A democracy will continue to exist up until the time that voters discover they can vote themselves generous gifts from the public treasury."

"From that moment on, the majority always vote for the candidates who promise the most benefits from the public treasury, with the result that every democracy will finally collapse due to loose fiscal policy, which is always followed by a dictatorship."

"The average age of the world's greatest civilizations from the beginning of history, has been about 200 years."

"During those 200 years, those nations always progressed through the following sequence:

1. from bondage to spiritual faith;

2. from spiritual faith to great courage;

3. from courage to liberty;

4. from liberty to abundance;

5. from abundance to complacency;

6. from complacency to apathy;

7. from apathy to dependence;

8. From dependence back into bondage"

Professor Joseph Olson of Hamline University School of Law, St. Paul, Minnesota, points out some interesting facts concerning the 2000 Presidential election:

Number of States won by: Gore: 19; Bush: 29

Square miles of land won by: Gore: 580,000; Bush: 2,427,000

Population of counties won by: Gore: 127 million; Bush: 143 million murder rate per 100,000 residents in counties won by: Gore: 13.2; Bush: 2.1

Professor Olson adds:

"In aggregate, the map of the territory Bush won was mostly the land owned by the taxpaying citizens of this great country. Gore's territory mostly encompassed those citizens living in government-owned tenements and living off various forms of government welfare..."

Olson believes the United States is now somewhere between the "complacency and apathy" phase of Professor Tyler's definition of democracy, with some forty percent of the nation's population already having reached the "governmental dependency" phase.

If Congress and/or the President grants amnesty and citizenship to twenty million criminal invaders called illegals and they vote, then we can say goodbye to the USA in fewer than five years.

[CaJuNsOuLjA]

Good read! I've been interested in this topic for a while now....be interesting to see how things develope.

Currently reading Plato's Republic

[AliceInChains02]

This is NOT intended to be Dem vs Rep. I just thought it was an interesting read.

How Long Do We Have?

About the time our original thirteen states adopted their new constitution in 1787, Alexander Tyler, a Scottish history professor at the University of Edinburgh , had this to say about the fall of the Athenian Republic some 2,000 years earlier:

"A democracy is always temporary in nature; it simply cannot exist as a permanent form of government."

"A democracy will continue to exist up until the time that voters discover they can vote themselves generous gifts from the public treasury."

"From that moment on, the majority always vote for the candidates who promise the most benefits from the public treasury, with the result that every democracy will finally collapse due to loose fiscal policy, which is always followed by a dictatorship."

"The average age of the world's greatest civilizations from the beginning of history, has been about 200 years."

"During those 200 years, those nations always progressed through the following sequence:

1. from bondage to spiritual faith;

2. from spiritual faith to great courage;

3. from courage to liberty;

4. from liberty to abundance;

5. from abundance to complacency;

6. from complacency to apathy;

7. from apathy to dependence;

8. From dependence back into bondage"

Professor Joseph Olson of Hamline University School of Law, St. Paul, Minnesota, points out some interesting facts concerning the 2000 Presidential election:

Number of States won by: Gore: 19; Bush: 29

Square miles of land won by: Gore: 580,000; Bush: 2,427,000

Population of counties won by: Gore: 127 million; Bush: 143 million murder rate per 100,000 residents in counties won by: Gore: 13.2; Bush: 2.1

Professor Olson adds:

"In aggregate, the map of the territory Bush won was mostly the land owned by the taxpaying citizens of this great country. Gore's territory mostly encompassed those citizens living in government-owned tenements and living off various forms of government welfare..."

Olson believes the United States is now somewhere between the "complacency and apathy" phase of Professor Tyler's definition of democracy, with some forty percent of the nation's population already having reached the "governmental dependency" phase.

If Congress and/or the President grants amnesty and citizenship to twenty million criminal invaders called illegals and they vote, then we can say goodbye to the USA in fewer than five years.

I think urban areas tend to be more Democrat and Rural areas tend to be more republican(so much for not making this a party issue, but it was unavoidable due to the nature of the article). Urban areas also tend to be more impoverished, less white, less educated, etc. etc. So yeah, Bush has the rich, white, good old boys, and they're content and spread out enough to not shoot each other. Good job, republicans:icon_thum
The other stuff I found interesting, about the phases of government, but it took a sharp turn at the end.

[Moody]

Ah, can't wait!

[CaJuNsOuLjA]

I think urban areas tend to be more Democrat and Rural areas tend to be more republican(so much for not making this a party issue, but it was unavoidable due to the nature of the article). Urban areas also tend to be more impoverished, less white, less educated, etc. etc. So yeah, Bush has the rich, white, good old boys, and they're content and spread out enough to not shoot each other. Good job, republicans:icon_thum
The other stuff I found interesting, about the phases of government, but it took a sharp turn at the end.

Yeah I was thinking the same, kinda turned me off at the end there. Should have been separate posts...

[Rick H.I.C.]

I think urban areas tend to be more Democrat and Rural areas tend to be more republican(so much for not making this a party issue, but it was unavoidable due to the nature of the article). Urban areas also tend to be more impoverished, less white, less educated, etc. etc. So yeah, Bush has the rich, white, good old boys, and they're content and spread out enough to not shoot each other. Good job, republicans:icon_thum
The other stuff I found interesting, about the phases of government, but it took a sharp turn at the end.
I was thinking more between 6 & 7. Most Kids out of college expect more than there worth or think they should just be a star. Kids tend to stick with the popularity of what the TV tells them. Abundance without work. Inner city and urban areas tend to be more impoverished due to the lack of good parenting and morals. Dependent on social programs. Most intelligent people attempt to seperate themselves from it by moving away from the problematic people. Rich, white? We were not rich just eeeking by, staying away from vacuum of dependency. Most country folks would survive long after the inner infrastuctures collapse. Shame is that we can't get any moronic politicians to understand and start undoing the dependence. My 2 Confusion again?:laughing6 Tried to take a little more time.
PS good find.

[AliceInChains02]

I was thinking more between 6 & 7. Most Kids out of college expect more than there worth or think they should just be a star. Kids tend to stick with the popularity of what the TV tells them. Abundance without work. Inner city and urban areas tend to be more impoverished due to the lack of good parenting and morals. Dependent on social programs. Most intelligent people attempt to seperate themselves from it by moving away from the problematic people. Rich, white? We were not rich just eeeking by, staying away from vacuum of dependency. Most country folks would survive long after the inner infrastuctures collapse. Shame is that we can't get any moronic politicians to understand and start undoing the dependence. My 2 Confusion again?:laughing6 Tried to take a little more time.
PS good find.

TV has always influenced people, young and old. Maybe inner city areas lack parenting and morals because they're impoverished

[Crystalline]

I was thinking more between 6 & 7. Most Kids out of college expect more than there worth or think they should just be a star. Kids tend to stick with the popularity of what the TV tells them. Abundance without work. Inner city and urban areas tend to be more impoverished due to the lack of good parenting and morals. Dependent on social programs. Most intelligent people attempt to seperate themselves from it by moving away from the problematic people. Rich, white? We were not rich just eeeking by, staying away from vacuum of dependency. Most country folks would survive long after the inner infrastuctures collapse. Shame is that we can't get any moronic politicians to understand and start undoing the dependence. My 2 Confusion again?:laughing6 Tried to take a little more time.
PS good find.


I don't think I fall under that category, but generally speaking... Almost true. Alice is right about old and new.... A lot of people get their info from the media... Smarter people try to dig and find the truth, even though it isn't always 100% the truth... I personally don't like watching tv to find my current events going on around the world because it is too biased for my taste. I watch the news (abc13, or KHOU11) for my local "shootings" :happy3: and traffic and what not....

[Crystalline]

Oh and FYI... I know I'm young, but my little ass is learning as much as possible, especially about govt. We are going to get ****ed when my generation retires.... ]: Well according to this article.... Thats if the democracy isn't screwed by then.... GAY!!

[Patrick]

TV has always influenced people, young and old. Maybe inner city areas lack parenting and morals because they're impoverished


So you're implying that if you're poor you have no parenting skills?

And your basis for that is?

As far as rural people being white and rich, you sure haven't visited A LOT of the country. The majority of the people in rural areas are doing well just getting by. By no means are most of them "rich", unless it's the wealth that comes from having a moral infrastructure, hard work and family.

[Rick H.I.C.]

TV has always influenced people, young and old. Maybe inner city areas lack parenting and morals because they're impoverished
Yes sir it has.
Only because they choose to be.:angry7: But you can keep sticking up for their lack of drive and ambition.:angry7:

[Rick H.I.C.]

So you're implying that if you're poor you have no parenting skills?

And your basis for that is?

As far as rural people being white and rich, you sure haven't visited A LOT of the country. The majority of the people in rural areas are doing well just getting by. By no means are most of them "rich", unless it's the wealth that comes from having a moral infrastructure, hard work and family.
That too.:icon_bigg

[Rick H.I.C.]

Oh and FYI... I know I'm young, but my little ass is learning as much as possible, especially about govt. We are going to get ****ed when my generation retires.... ]: Well according to this article.... Thats if the democracy isn't screwed by then.... GAY!!
Good for you!! Keep up the good work!!
Retirement is something that should be personal responsibilty, don't rely on govt', their social program started off good but does not keep any accountability. I say let me keep and invest my own damn money that I work my okole off for. :BangHead: Still they hammer me for it.:angry7:

[AliceInChains02]

So you're implying that if you're poor you have no parenting skills?

And your basis for that is?

As far as rural people being white and rich, you sure haven't visited A LOT of the country. The majority of the people in rural areas are doing well just getting by. By no means are most of them "rich", unless it's the wealth that comes from having a moral infrastructure, hard work and family.

I'm saying I think there's a correlation between poverty, lack of education, crime, condensed living, and poor social skills. I know most rural people aren't 'rich', since farming makes up about 1% of the job market now.. maybe non-urban would've been a better word than 'rural', even though i'm sure there are tons of rich people in the city as well.

[AliceInChains02]

Yes sir it has.
Only because they choose to be.:angry7: But you can keep sticking up for their lack of drive and ambition.:angry7:

What causes them to lose their drive and ambition though? You're making it sound like they are born lazy(racist!:P), but I think there are lots of factors that effect who a person becomes. I think if you were born in their situation, there's a good chance you would be the same way.

[Crystalline]

Good for you!! Keep up the good work!!
Retirement is something that should be personal responsibilty, don't rely on govt', their social program started off good but does not keep any accountability. I say let me keep and invest my own damn money that I work my okole off for. :BangHead: Still they hammer me for it.:angry7:


Oh yea... Once I am in my career for..... I would say about 3 years, so I can save a good amount (along with my 401k, even though the company may **** me over), I plan to start investing.... I want to do a lot of things, plus adopt.

[CaJuNsOuLjA]

I was thinking more between 6 & 7. Most Kids out of college expect more than there worth or think they should just be a star. Kids tend to stick with the popularity of what the TV tells them. Abundance without work. Inner city and urban areas tend to be more impoverished due to the lack of good parenting and morals. Dependent on social programs. Most intelligent people attempt to seperate themselves from it by moving away from the problematic people. Rich, white? We were not rich just eeeking by, staying away from vacuum of dependency. Most country folks would survive long after the inner infrastuctures collapse. Shame is that we can't get any moronic politicians to understand and start undoing the dependence. My 2 Confusion again?:laughing6 Tried to take a little more time.
PS good find.

Ok there was some truth to this as well as a good bit of fallacy. The truth would be the notion that alot of the younger generations, mines included, are apparently ingrained with sense of entitlement-that is to say that they believe that the world owes them something. One way we see this illustrated is the fact that many college graduates-as Rick made mention of- feel that when they get out of college that they will be worth a $100k/ year job without having first paid their dues. My sister was a prime example of this, she figured that she would be making $50k/ year at the Cronicle once she graduated with a B.A. from Trinity U. Sadly, this was not this case and she worked a bit harder and waited a bit longer for the $50+k/yr she makes at present. Now for the pure fallacy. The notion that: Inner city and urban areas tend to be more impoverished due to the lack of good parenting and morals is absolutely false. There is no data that would corroborate such a statement. A more accurate statement along the same lines that may prove true is that there are many parents in the inner city areas that are not capable of providing good parenting due to things like long work hours and differing schedules (i.e. School lets out at 3p but the parent must be at work at 5p-effectively removing the parent from one of the more critical times of the day for their child)- this is no fault of the government, but should be considered when having a discussion about the morality and allegedly inferior parenting skills of those in the inner city. The morality and good parenting ability are there, the parents are simply not able. To insist that the morality is not there is ridiculous, lets consider the abundance of churches and other socially ethical organizations such as the YMCA that are located in inner city and urban areas. The churches in particular provide a great foundation of morality and ethics, problem is that the youth is no longer interested and the older generation that DOES attend the churches are too out of touch with the youth to do anything about it. Gangsta rap and retarded a$$ other music are a good direction to look for the fault. With kids seeing these music videos with guns, money and video gals-what else are they to look to? The reason kids in the inner city are not learning is the fact that all their books are outdated & the teachers don't make any money (as compared to districts outside the loop) so they are simply not motivated. These are not the main reasons, but are definately major contributors. Lets stay away from the blanketed, general statemenst because those are generally false. This is all coming from an inner city kid with a beautiful and highly intelligent mother that worked extremely hard so that I could receive the best education possible. I'm thinking she did alright, particularly on the parenting side. :icon_thum One more time for clarity, the morals and ethics are there, that community though, needs to figure out how to relay the message more effectively. There are some great people in the hood, I know, I grew up there, they are just over-shadowed by the idiots we frequently see on TV, in their many forms.

One more thing, the notion that country folks don't receive any governmental aid is simply false too. I know quite a few guys here on Ft. Hood with a good bit of land and now that I know all their lil secrets and tax breaks and loop holes, I will be receiving that same aid. All you need is 10+ acres and few hours a day...

[Romeo36]

hey we didnt ask to be here. we should get something out of yall wanting to have kids
jk :laughing6

[CaJuNsOuLjA]

hey we didnt ask to be here. we should get something out of yall wanting to have kids
jk :laughing6

Huh?:dontknow:

[Crystalline]

OMG that was so0o0o0o long to read!!!

But he is generalizing, not saying they all are like that. GEEZ!

As for rich parents, some of their parenting skills aren't that great either. I know this kid who is my age and his sister is a few years older and they don't have any work ethics, nor do they know the value of a dollar because mommy and daddy gets them everything single thing they ask for. Let me rephrase that; Mommy and Daddy get them everything they demand. It's not a matter of where they live that influences their parenting skills, some people are just plain ****in lazy to teach their kids morals! :BangHead:
Look at Bart Whitaker. This guy kills his mom, his brother, and attempted to kill his father in order to inherit more than million dollars. He also has a trust fund in his name that his parents did for him. Where was his morals at?

[Cherub]

to original post - Interesting read.

[CaJuNsOuLjA]

OMG that was so0o0o0o long to read!!!

But he is generalizing, not saying they all are like that. GEEZ!


If this is true, I apologize for jumping on it too fast Rick :icon_thum

See Alice, I'm willing to admit when I'm wrong, lol

[Crystalline]

Only because I have "nice lips", and you want them to keep talking.











Baaaaahaahaahahahahaha..... yuck.

[Cherub]

Only because I have "nice lips", and you want them to keep talking.











Baaaaahaahaahahahahaha..... YUMMMY.

FIXED

[Crystalline]

^^^ Thanks... I think.

Lol.

[AliceInChains02]

If this is true, I apologize for jumping on it too fast Rick :icon_thum

See Alice, I'm willing to admit when I'm wrong, lol
some times:keke:

[Crystalline]

some times:keke:



:keke: :happy3: :keke: :happy3: :keke: :happy3: :keke: :happy3:

[CaJuNsOuLjA]

:thefinger :eek3dance :bootyshak :boxing: /\

[Crystalline]

:laughing4That's why your ass lost the bet!:dance:

[bumblebee]

[QUOTE=CrystalBystal] Smarter people try to dig and find the truth, even though it isn't always 100% the truth... I personally don't like watching tv to find my current events going on around the world because it is too biased for my taste. QUOTE]


I don't mean to pick on you Crystal but I seldom trust the info in these kind of posts. I went to the Hamline University School of Law website.
I looked up Professor Joseph Olsen and was mildly surprised to see he DOES exist.
However in his profile he states that the entire post is "bogus" and he has been trying to kill it for 3 years. He also recommends that you go to Snopes.com fopr more info.
The discussion this post has started has been interesting but be careful what you believe.
Instant communication goes hand in hand with instant miscommunication.

[Crystalline]

[QUOTE=CrystalBystal] Smarter people try to dig and find the truth, even though it isn't always 100% the truth... I personally don't like watching tv to find my current events going on around the world because it is too biased for my taste. QUOTE]


I don't mean to pick on you Crystal but I seldom trust the info in these kind of posts. I went to the Hamline University School of Law website.
I looked up Professor Joseph Olsen and was mildly surprised to see he DOES exist.
However in his profile he states that the entire post is "bogus" and he has been trying to kill it for 3 years. He also recommends that you go to Snopes.com fopr more info.
The discussion this post has started has been interesting but be careful what you believe.
Instant communication goes hand in hand with instant miscommunication.

Oh i know it's hard to find the truth. One of my friends told me (and I forget who told me this), but his friends husband works for the the CIA, and he says that there is no reason to be watching the news. So lets just use that as hearsay... ]:
As for the post in here, they are usually found on good websites. I try to put links below from where I get them and sometimes so does everyone else. But what I am trying to get to is that there are very few people who care about politics or anything relating to it. Regardless if this was false information on the Professors behalf it still created good discussions among a few guys on here.:icon_thum

[CaJuNsOuLjA]

:laughing4That's why your ass lost the bet!:dance:

AH WHATEVA...

You still a paper chump...I mean champ :icon_bigg

[Crystalline]

AH WHATEVA...

You still a paper chump...I mean champ :icon_bigg


I'll show you chump! (Or chunky)Just lift up your shirt. :eek3:

:laughing6 :laughing6 :laughing6 :laughing6 :laughing6 :laughing6 :laughing6 :laughing6 :laughing6 :laughing6 :laughing6 :laughing6 :laughing6 :laughing6 :laughing6 :laughing6 :laughing6 :laughing6 :laughing6 :laughing6 :laughing6 :laughing6 :laughing6 :laughing6 :laughing6 :laughing6 :laughing6 :laughing6 :laughing6 :laughing6 :laughing6 :laughing6 :laughing6 :laughing6 :laughing6

[CaJuNsOuLjA]

I'll show you chump! (Or chunky)Just lift up your shirt. :eek3:

:laughing6 :laughing6 :laughing6 :laughing6 :laughing6 :laughing6 :laughing6 :laughing6 :laughing6 :laughing6 :laughing6 :laughing6 :laughing6 :laughing6 :laughing6 :laughing6 :laughing6 :laughing6 :laughing6 :laughing6 :laughing6 :laughing6 :laughing6 :laughing6 :laughing6 :laughing6 :laughing6 :laughing6 :laughing6 :laughing6 :laughing6 :laughing6 :laughing6 :laughing6 :laughing6

HAHAHAH!!! WE'LL SEE CHUMP...Drinkin' contest Friday...I just textd you me liftn my shirt...still chunky chump?:yeahno: Nope prolly DROOLIN' as we speak....:nod: :laughing6 :angel10:


I got that Spartan thang goin on righ about now...:icon_bigg

[Crystalline]

Um how about.... :icon_puke

[CaJuNsOuLjA]

Um how about.... :icon_puke

Righhhtttt...I forgot you don't really like alcohol :keke:

[Crystalline]

^^^ wait wait wait wait...... I didn't say that, and uhhh... You're still buying my drinks LOSER!!! Jk jk jk.. i love you!!!

[Rick H.I.C.]

If this is true, I apologize for jumping on it too fast Rick :icon_thum

See Alice, I'm willing to admit when I'm wrong, lol
What Crystal said. Makin' my add hurt.

:icon_thum Yuo and your mother made the right choices.

Brother I'm no angel, I made the right choices pretty much form experience. And still regret some of them to an extent. Everyone in this world can only blame themselves for where their at in their lives. Especially as an adult, which in my book is 17 -18 not 30 something as most think today. Have fun like a young un' don't think like one.

[Rick H.I.C.]

hey we didnt ask to be here. we should get something out of yall wanting to have kids
jk :laughing6

Don't have any. So does mean I can stop paying outrageous misappropiated school taxes?
Think he was going for the cop out. It's my parents fault they had me.

[Crystalline]

Don't have any. So does mean I can stop paying outrageous misappropiated school taxes?
Think he was going for the cop out. It's my parents fault they had me.


HAHAHAHHAHAHA! Wouldn't that be so awesome if you didn't have to pay taxes. But think about how poor the districts will be. ]:
What sucks for me is that when the days comes that I have children... I am putting them in private school... S0o0o I'll be paying twice. [:

[Rick H.I.C.]

HAHAHAHHAHAHA! Wouldn't that be so awesome if you didn't have to pay taxes. But think about how poor the districts will be. ]:
What sucks for me is that when the days comes that I have children... I am putting them in private school... S0o0o I'll be paying twice. [:
:nod:
:hs:
Yepper :BangHead: :angry7: :BangHead: