Carrying in your vehicle & carrying on your motorcycle

[F4injected]

It is my understanding that due to the recent changes in the law, we are now able to carry a loaded weapon in the cabin of my car as long as it is concealed. Of course, there are other stipulations but that is the gist of it.

Correct me if I’m wrong, but that means that I can even be sitting on the gun while driving, and it’s fine as long as it’s concealed?
Also, because I’m a motorcyclist, does this mean that my motorcycle is just like a car and I’ll be able to carry a pistol, let’s say in my backpack, while “travelling?”

Sorry for all the questions but it would be great if I could get some legitimate advice from a lawyer such as yourself!

Thanks!

[wackjum]

Yes you can now carry a handgun in your car as long as it is concealed from plain view (and you're not a gang member, etc etc).

It can be loaded or unloaded. The law makes no distinction which also means an unloaded handgun has to be concealed too.

As for motorcycles, the statute is unclear and no court cases are available to clarify the statute. My interpretation of the statute is that it is still illegal to carry a handgun on your person or in a storage compartment while on your motorcycle without a CHL.

[yumbeef]

i'm not a lawyer. here's the penal code dealing with carrying in cars
http://www.statutes.legis.state.tx.us/Docs/PE/htm/PE.46.htm#46.02
click the link because the formatting doesn't transfer nice
Sec. 46.02. UNLAWFUL CARRYING WEAPONS. (a) A person commits an offense if the person intentionally, knowingly, or recklessly carries on or about his or her person a handgun, illegal knife, or club if the person is not:(1) on the person's own premises or premises under the person's control; or
(2) inside of or directly en route to a motor vehicle that is owned by the person or under the person's control.(a-1) A person commits an offense if the person intentionally, knowingly, or recklessly carries on or about his or her person a handgun in a motor vehicle that is owned by the person or under the person's control at any time in which:(1) the handgun is in plain view; or(2) the person is:(A) engaged in criminal activity, other than a Class C misdemeanor that is a violation of a law or ordinance regulating traffic;(B) prohibited by law from possessing a firearm; or(C) a member of a criminal street gang, as defined by Section 71.
penal code states exceptions regarding to a person inside a vehicle. can't ride inside a motorcycle.

[Solracer]

what if the gun is in your tank bag, tail bag, saddle bag..

Some bikes have built in compartments...

[wackjum]

First, the statute, omitting parts that are not relevant and emphasis added for clarity:

Texas Penal Code Sec. 46.02. UNLAWFUL CARRYING WEAPONS.
(a) A person commits an offense if the person intentionally, knowingly, or recklessly carries on or about his or her person a handgun if the person is not inside of a motor vehicle that is owned by the person or under the person's control.

The plain language of the statute requires the person be "inside of a motor vehicle" the vehicle. They didn't use the more common phrasing "operating a motor vehicle." Therefore the plain reading of the statute is that you have to be inside of a car or truck as you can't be inside of a motorcycle.

However, it is not a crime to just have a handgun in a car or motorcycle. The question has always been about accessibility. That's why the section of the code is entitled unlawful carrying.

Another way to look at is that the law makes it illegal to carry a handgun on your body, and then carves out some exceptions. One exception is inside your car. The other exception is having a CHL. Since you cannot be inside your motorcycle, the exception does not apply and we have to look at whether you are carrying on or about your person.

The Courts have defined carrying on or about his or her person as a question of accessibility. And specifically pertaining to motorcycles:

Appellant concedes in his brief that “on or about” one's person means “nearby, close at hand” or within such distance that the party can reach it without materially changing his position. Wagner v. State, 80 Tex.Crim. 66, 188 S.W.2d 1001, 1002 (1916). We believe, as a matter of common knowledge, that any compartment on a motorcycle fits within that definition. Indeed, it would appear that it could well be much closer in proximity than some parts of the interior of a car which has been previously held to be “on or about” a person. Christian v. State, 686 S.W.2d 930, 933 (Tex.Crim.App.1985) citing Courtney v. State, 424 S.W.2d 440 (Tex.Crim.App.1968). Whether we accept, as appellant insists, as fact the handgun was found in the locked compartment under the seat of the driver or that it was found in “some compartment on the motorcycle” is merely a distinction without a difference. What is important is that the compartment was in close proximity and within appellant's reach. - Burks v. State, 693 S.W.2d 747 (Tex.App. 14 Dist., 1985).

The law that allows carrying in a car came out in 2007. It is still too early for the Courts to start deciding how to apply it. Therefore I don't have any definitive precedent to tell you. But my reading of the statute and case law says it is per se illegal and we'd have to argue that it wasn't.

[F4injected]

Awesome! Thanks for clearing all that up. I guess the quicker I get my CHL means I don't even have to worry about all this!

[F4injected]

Btw, what about having my pistol on me when I am a passenger in someone else's car?

[wackjum]

Btw, what about having my pistol on me when I am a passenger in someone else's car?

That's fine as long as you're not in route to commit crimes or somebody in the car is a street gang member.

[40Arpent]

That's fine as long as you're not in route to commit crimes or somebody in the car is a street gang member.

What about the part where is says the person owns or is in control of the vehicle?

[wackjum]

What about the part where is says the person owns or is in control of the vehicle?

Control is not defined in the statute. Where "care, custody and control" is defined in general, it is possible and generally presumed that occupants of a vehicle have joint control.

View it this way: imagine if an officer stopped a car and upon investigation, he suspects marijuana. He will immediately divide up the occupants and question them individually. If any of them give consent to search the vehicle, the officer will do so. Later the State will say consent to search was given, and Courts will uphold this.

Either way I think it is a distinction without a difference. If the driver (presumed owner) of the vehicle is not a gang member or in route to commit a crime, then the driver is legally entitled to have a gun in the car. Guns don't have registration so who is to say the gun didn't belong to the driver? If the driver is a gang member or in route to commit a crime, the passenger's situation is beyond the scope of this hypothetical.

[gueroaero]

Considering that shtf outside of vehicles as much as in(or on :) ), then you may want to go ahead and get your CHL. When you are carrying concealed, it may not always be comfortable but it is always comforting.:thumb:

[F4injected]

Considering that shtf outside of vehicles as much as in(or on :) ), then you may want to go ahead and get your CHL. When you are carrying concealed, it may not always be comfortable but it is always comforting.:thumb:

Hell yea! I actually just took my CHL class and now I need to finish my application and wait :thumb:

I do need to find a good pistol shooting training place that is affordable. I hear good things about a place down on 59 & hopps?

[Alleykat]

That's fine as long as you're not in route to commit crimes or somebody in the car is a street gang member.

I wonder how the state is deciding whos a gang member or not? No officer that swastika on my head does not mean im in a gang. :keke: