Helmet Ejector

[spartandude]

With all of the talk about "how fast can you go on 3090," "I want to get a supersport for my first bike," etc. I was wondering about helmet removal for a casualty in need of CPR. I know there is a thread for manual removal, but I stumbled across the linked tech:
http://www.ejectsafety.com/home.html
http://www.shockdoctor.com/product/eject-automotorcycle-emergency-helmet-removal-kit.aspx

My questions are:
Has anyone used these?
and
What do you think of this tech?

[Scorpio]

Seems like a decent system.
I think the solution that Arai came up with is a bit more simple, yet still effective.

You can watch video below to see how it works...

3pfEWsUAKLk

[spartandude]

Seems like a decent system.
I think the solution that Arai came up with is a bit more simple, yet still effective.

You can watch video below to see how it works...

3pfEWsUAKLk

Cool. I think that is a much simpler system (KISS and Murphy come to mind). It also looks like it would be pretty warm to wear all the time.

Has anyone used either of these?

[Pyrofallout]

CPR does not require rescue breaths. Do not remove the helmet.

[spartandude]

CPR does not require rescue breaths. Do not remove the helmet.

Thank you, I will modify my prior training. ref http://firstaid.webmd.com/tc/dealing-with-emergencies-rescue-breathing-and-cpr

However, actual medical professionals may still need to remove the helmet for bleeding, cranial surgery, etc. and wonder if this would help them.

For the lay person I think I might sport this sticker.
http://www.streetglo.net/helmet.removal.accident.warning.decal.html

[Pyrofallout]

Thank you, I will modify my prior training. ref http://firstaid.webmd.com/tc/dealing-with-emergencies-rescue-breathing-and-cpr

However, actual medical professionals may still need to remove the helmet for bleeding, cranial surgery, etc. and wonder if this would help them.

For the lay person I think I might sport this sticker.
http://www.streetglo.net/helmet.removal.accident.warning.decal.html

Yeah, most actual CPR classes now they will tell you, you do not have to, the rescue breathes are not near as important as getting the heart going again, just ensure the airway is opened.

Exactly, let the EMTs or the doctors removed the helmet. Don't remove the helmet of a crashed rider that cannot get up. If the EMT's remove it fine. If they really fear removing the helmet will harm the patient, I imagine they would likely wait til they get to the hospital and let the hospital cut it off.

[spartandude]

Exactly, let the EMTs or the doctors removed the helmet. Don't remove the helmet of a crashed rider that cannot get up. If the EMT's remove it fine. If they really fear removing the helmet will harm the patient, I imagine they would likely wait til they get to the hospital and let the hospital cut it off.
Okay. I can save my money then.:thumb:

[logan5]

I was hoping that as they slowly pulled of the helmet it would reveal a smokin hot chick.

[CaligoneTx]

I was hoping that as they slowly pulled of the helmet it would reveal a smokin hot chick.

lol; instead of a stereotype of bad drivers?


Interesting idea, but I'd rather have a redundant helmet design that isnt going to confuse the medical folk assisting me. As for them cutting the helmet or other gear for that matter, I know if i dont want it cut it needs to be off before they get there :rofl: Otherwise cut away. I cant put a price on my well being but their bills will. Insurance can pay for the gear.

[Pyrofallout]

lol; instead of a stereotype of bad drivers?


Interesting idea, but I'd rather have a redundant helmet design that isnt going to confuse the medical folk assisting me. As for them cutting the helmet or other gear for that matter, I know if i dont want it cut it needs to be off before they get there :rofl: Otherwise cut away. I cant put a price on my well being but their bills will. Insurance can pay for the gear.

And they will destory it. :nod: If they need access, they will cut right through your leathers to get them off too. :nod:

[C.Hern5972]

If its on, i know in the plants and with the FD when i ran with them. Its getting cut off

[psychomedicHFD]

Yank the lid off...if a person requires chest compressions...c-spine precautions are the least of your worries. Motorcycle incident with cpr is considered a traumatic arrest and most paramedics will 1050 the pt.

[PYROBUG51]

I agree with the above but also Life over Limb...If you need CPR with breaths Your fighting for your life....If you get away being Paralyzed cause someone removed the helmet...look at it as a WIN:thumb:

[PYROBUG51]

Yank the lid off...if a person requires chest compressions...c-spine precautions are the least of your worries. Motorcycle incident with cpr is considered a traumatic arrest and most paramedics will 1050 the pt.

Hahahah I was just writing the same thing as you poseted :rofl::rofl:

[witchdoctor575]

Yeah, most actual CPR classes now they will tell you, you do not have to, the rescue breathes are not near as important as getting the heart going again, just ensure the airway is opened.

Exactly, let the EMTs or the doctors removed the helmet. Don't remove the helmet of a crashed rider that cannot get up. If the EMT's remove it fine. If they really fear removing the helmet will harm the patient, I imagine they would likely wait til they get to the hospital and let the hospital cut it off.
breathing depends on the training one receives, the lay person is taught not to give rescue breaths..... medical personel are still taught to give breaths. bottom line is, if you don't know what your doing........don't

[witchdoctor575]

With all of the talk about "how fast can you go on 3090," "I want to get a supersport for my first bike," etc. I was wondering about helmet removal for a casualty in need of CPR. I know there is a thread for manual removal, but I stumbled across the linked tech:
http://www.ejectsafety.com/home.html
http://www.shockdoctor.com/product/eject-automotorcycle-emergency-helmet-removal-kit.aspx

My questions are:
Has anyone used these?
and
What do you think of this tech?


good find..... I will be adding one of these to my CAP.

[07CBR]

It looks like a great idea and I would definately consider adding one to both of my helmets. The only problem I see is how many ambulance/fire departments carry the CO2 cartridges and inflator to use it? It's not going to do you any good if it's there but they have no way to inflate it. If this company really pushes it and more EMS/FDs are educated about it and carry the inflator then I think it could be a great purchase.

Just my $0.02.

[Pyrofallout]

breathing depends on the training one receives, the lay person is taught not to give rescue breaths..... medical personel are still taught to give breaths. bottom line is, if you don't know what your doing........don't

not exactly. the official curriculum for every class i have taken over the years since high school, fd or just a general class, taught rescue breathes. But they all mentioned, that they were not required.

I'm not gonna argue with the HFD guys as they know way more than me, on the subject and are surely far more trained and experienced.

But my thoughts are this. Myself I keep a one way mask in the truck. But I don't carry one on my keys or in my pocket so I don't always have one. If it's someone I really don't know, chances are I am not giving them rescue breathes without a mask, maybe some think that isn't right, maybe some don't. But communicable diseases are one of the reasons why the Red Cross and others are leaning more towards taking rescue breathes out of the general class curriculum all together. If its a friend or a family member, then I'm sure I would give them breathes whether I have a mask or not as chances are I know they don't have a dangerous communicable disease.

So my point is, if I was at an accident where a rider wrecked and needed CPR that I did not know and I did not have any form of mask or one way guard to give breathes, I won't.

I could be wrong, I think someone more like a doctor could maybe speak more on the subject. But I would think during chest compressions, the only strain on a persons neck and spine would be up and down from the movement, maybe even less harmful if someone was holding c spine. I really don't know. But if I don't NEED to take their helmet off, why would I, and risk twisting their neck at all?

Like I said, I am no expert on the matter, and certainly don't know the 100% correct answer, but that's simply my thoughts on what I would and wouldn't do and why.

[witchdoctor575]

not exactly. the official curriculum for every class i have taken over the years since high school, fd or just a general class, taught rescue breathes. But they all mentioned, that they were not required.

I'm not gonna argue with the HFD guys as they know way more than me, on the subject and are surely far more trained and experienced.

But my thoughts are this. Myself I keep a one way mask in the truck. But I don't carry one on my keys or in my pocket so I don't always have one. If it's someone I really don't know, chances are I am not giving them rescue breathes without a mask, maybe some think that isn't right, maybe some don't. But communicable diseases are one of the reasons why the Red Cross and others are leaning more towards taking rescue breathes out of the general class curriculum all together. If its a friend or a family member, then I'm sure I would give them breathes whether I have a mask or not as chances are I know they don't have a dangerous communicable disease.

So my point is, if I was at an accident where a rider wrecked and needed CPR that I did not know and I did not have any form of mask or one way guard to give breathes, I won't.

I could be wrong, I think someone more like a doctor could maybe speak more on the subject. But I would think during chest compressions, the only strain on a persons neck and spine would be up and down from the movement, maybe even less harmful if someone was holding c spine. I really don't know. But if I don't NEED to take their helmet off, why would I, and risk twisting their neck at all?

Like I said, I am no expert on the matter, and certainly don't know the 100% correct answer, but that's simply my thoughts on what I would and wouldn't do and why.

if you take cpr for health care providers, you give breaths...

[Pyrofallout]

if you take cpr for health care providers, you give breaths...

I have taken CPR for health care providers multiple times, I have also taken generic CPR classes through work and school for everyone in general and been CPR certified since I was 15. ALL classes, the official curriculum taught to give 2 rescue breathes. And EVERY instructor has noted that breathes are NOT required and definitely at your discretion without a mask available.

Repeating myself here.

[witchdoctor575]

I have taken CPR for health care providers multiple times, I have also taken generic CPR classes through work and school for everyone in general and been CPR certified since I was 15. ALL classes, the official curriculum taught to give 2 rescue breathes. And EVERY instructor has noted that breathes are NOT required and definitely at your discretion without a mask available.

Repeating myself here.

if you work in a hospital you have to give breaths. you can't have a pt. that is coding and not provide breaths, grant it you have an ambu bag and O2 but breaths are still required in a hospital setting.... repeat yourself all you want, the fact of the matter is you as a responder have no idea why that person is in distress, if that person has an obstruction or crushed airway, you'll never know unless you try to give a rescue breath. if the person has no respirations but a pulse.... you'll need to give a rescue breath because cpr is not done on a pt with a pulse. there are a million factors involved in first response and ALS.

[Pyrofallout]

if you work in a hospital you have to give breaths. you can't have a pt. that is coding and not provide breaths, grant it you have an ambu bag and O2 but breaths are still required in a hospital setting.... repeat yourself all you want, the fact of the matter is you as a responder have no idea why that person is in distress, if that person has an obstruction or crushed airway, you'll never know unless you try to give a rescue breath. if the person has no respirations but a pulse.... you'll need to give a rescue breath because cpr is not done on a pt with a pulse. there are a million factors involved in first response and ALS.

Hospitals or first responders will always have a bag valve mask, I am not talking about at a hospital or as a responder to a scene. I am talking about anyone nearby who is the first person to care for the person that goes down. Most times it is not going to be any trained responder and chances are they will not have the proper equipment at that time either. The institute that teaches and standardizes CPR is the American Red Cross, and every one of their instructors has made a point to say, that you do not have to give rescue breathing to a patient without a mask, especially if you do not know them.

I am not arguing that rescue breathing cannot save a life, I am telling you what is regularly taught by the agency who teaches CPR throughout this country.

[bumblebee]

Wouldn't chest compressions cause air to be pulled into and pushed out from the lungs?
Wouldn't that be sufficient to keep a person alive?
I'm just asking cause I don't know but maybe that's why there is the discrepancy about whether or not rescue breaths are required.

Anyway the helmet removal devices are cool and maybe someday mfr's will incorporate something like that into the helmet. Something universal that EMT's around the world will know about and be trained to use.

[witchdoctor575]

Hospitals or first responders will always have a bag valve mask, I am not talking about at a hospital or as a responder to a scene. I am talking about anyone nearby who is the first person to care for the person that goes down. Most times it is not going to be any trained responder and chances are they will not have the proper equipment at that time either. The institute that teaches and standardizes CPR is the American Red Cross, and every one of their instructors has made a point to say, that you do not have to give rescue breathing to a patient without a mask, especially if you do not know them.

that's true.... what it boils down to is this...Hands-only CPR is intended for untrained rescuers and only for witnessed cardiac arrest. they teach hands only because lay people were 1. doing shit wrong 2. were more likely to do hands only because they aren't scared of catching a disease with mouth to mouth and something being done is (most of the time) better than nothing being done.

[witchdoctor575]

Wouldn't chest compressions cause air to be pulled into and pushed out from the lungs?
Wouldn't that be sufficient to keep a person alive?
I'm just asking cause I don't know but maybe that's why there is the discrepancy about whether or not rescue breaths are required.

Anyway the helmet removal devices are cool and maybe someday mfr's will incorporate something like that into the helmet. Something universal that EMT's around the world will know about and be trained to use.

yes some air is exchanged with just the act of compressions but not much.... there again, something is better than nothing at all.

[Pyrofallout]

that's true.... what it boils down to is this...Hands-only CPR is intended for untrained rescuers and only for witnessed cardiac arrest. they teach hands only because lay people were 1. doing shit wrong 2. were more likely to do hands only because they aren't scared of catching a disease with mouth to mouth and something being done is (most of the time) better than nothing being done.

agreed. and my thoughts earlier were simply that if someone witnesses a motorcycle wrecks and is going up to a patient, determines they are in cardiac arrest, and intends to do compression only cpr, why would you remove the helmet if you don't have to?

[bumblebee]

why would you remove the helmet if you don't have to?

Is this a suspected smokin hot chick or a fat bearded Harley guy?

Cause if it's a chick that helmet, jacket and shirt are gonna have to come off as part of the initial assesment of the patient's condition.:D
rescue breathing will follow, even if unneccesary

[Pyrofallout]

Is this a suspected smokin hot chick or a fat bearded Harley guy?

Cause if it's a chick that helmet, jacket and shirt are gonna have to come off as part of the initial assesment of the patient's condition.:D
rescue breathing will follow, even if unneccesary

No way man, it's time for you to suck it up and give bearded stinky rebel harley guy mouth to mouth sans mask. Don't mind the homemade tattoos and the drug paraphernalia. I am sure he is clean as a whistle. :D :keke:

But what I was saying is really, for me, if I don't even know you, and I don't have a mask or a bag, I am likely giving you compression only. Of course any person actually responding to a scene will have all the necessary equipment to not only give you CPR and rescue breathing with a bag but a defibrillator as well. Me or anyone else for that matter riding a backroad somewhere on the bike will be lucky if they have so much as a one way valve mask.

[bumblebee]

No way man, it's time for you to suck it up and give bearded stinky rebel harley guy mouth to mouth sans mask. Don't mind the homemade tattoos and the drug paraphernalia. I am sure he is clean as a whistle. :D :keke:

OK but NO tongue...






this time.

[witchdoctor575]

agreed. and my thoughts earlier were simply that if someone witnesses a motorcycle wrecks and is going up to a patient, determines they are in cardiac arrest, and intends to do compression only cpr, why would you remove the helmet if you don't have to?

well, that goes back to my original post too..... if you don't know what your doing.... don't! layman get trained well enough to act in a pts. favor for the handful of minutes it takes for a trained person to arrive. there again though, if a lay person determines that there is an airway obsruction and the helmet is the culprit.... the helmet needs to be removed. chances are though if a m/c wreck victim has no ABC's then technically that person is dead and worrying about paralysis is low on the totem pole and everything needs to be done to restore ABC's.

[htownballa]

on the subject of the OP, I believe Shoei X-12 has incorporated a similar concept to their helmet line. I wouldnt be suprised if all Japan line of helmets begin using this concept.

Japan is known for extremely high quality, rather than quantity and size. Japanese quality standards are top notch.

I would cerainly prefer to have the helmet removed like this rather than cutting it in half.

[Pyrofallout]

on the subject of the OP, I believe Shoei X-12 has incorporated a similar concept to their helmet line. I wouldnt be suprised if all Japan line of helmets begin using this concept.

Japan is known for extremely high quality, rather than quantity and size. Japanese quality standards are top notch.

I would cerainly prefer to have the helmet removed like this rather than cutting it in half.

But at least for a while, most responders aren't going to know that helmet is capable of that, they are still going to cut it right off if they need to.

[psychomedicHFD]

yes some air is exchanged with just the act of compressions but not much.... there again, something is better than nothing at all.

yes...bad CPR is better than no CPR...but once again if a person requires chest compressions from a traumatic event..ie motorcycle wreck...chances are(high chances) they are expired.

now if its a buddy you ride with then you can TRY to do everything possible for him/her. in the long run it will take the age old question out"what if...what if I did this...what if I did that"...

[witchdoctor575]

if a person requires chest compressions from a traumatic event..ie motorcycle wreck...chances are(high chances) they are expired.



i was gonna type that in an earlier post but I didn't want to sound too callous. lol

[PYROBUG51]

well, that goes back to my original post too..... if you don't know what your doing.... don't! layman get trained well enough to act in a pts. favor for the handful of minutes it takes for a trained person to arrive. there again though, if a lay person determines that there is an airway obsruction and the helmet is the culprit.... the helmet needs to be removed. chances are though if a m/c wreck victim has no ABC's then technically that person is dead and worrying about paralysis is low on the totem pole and everything needs to be done to restore ABC's.

If your out on 3090 and have a accident with a buddy think of this
Response Time of a AMBULANCE
How bad is the Patient

the new red Cross says you can give just Chest Compressions or NOW 30:1...Everyone but medically trained personel are cover by the good samaritain law if you help and you FOOk the patient up you will not be held accountable...So thats why they say something is better than nothing:thumb: And I guess it has been proven that as long as you are pumping the blood thru the body you are recirculating 21 percent of 0xygen which we inhale...when you give breaths you only deliver 16 percent...so recirculating 21 percent and keeping it flowing thru the blood stream has more of a advantage than giving breaths and flowing 16 percent:thumb:

[Pyrofallout]

If we are talking about 3090 in particular. If someone goes down bad enough and has no breathing no pulse. They are as good as dead. It'll take 45 mins just to get a box to them.

[PYROBUG51]

If we are talking about 3090 in particular. If someone goes down bad enough and has no breathing no pulse. They are as good as dead. It'll take 45 mins just to get a box to them.

:thumb:+1 and then they will wanna fly them and that will take another 30 mins then transport another 30 by chopper :angry7: the golden hour is gone:angry7:

On that NOTE: I think this may help you if you are in a accident where the Patient is breathing but having neck or back pains and you really dont wanna move them...but then again who carries CO2 City of houston Doesnt!

[GAU-8]

between the 2 different offerings...

I have to say that i would probably go with Arai's style more. it seems more controllable to work with on removing the helmet.

current helmets today are slightly "rolled" on, and should be VERY FITTING. not sure about the inflate-a-bag approach to remove something that meant to be taken off a certain way.

but I would have to see a video of it in operation. to me the Arai version seems "soft" for removal, where as the ShockDoctor approach seems "hard" to the patient.

want to see more though,(on the Shock Doctor version) as i am interested, and would like to actually be wrong on this subject.


incidentally, there is another helmet (or helmet product..cant remember which) that has an "ICE PACK" sandwiched between the liner, and the styrofoam, that when impacted, mixes two chemicals, and immediately chills the helmet. keeping the head cool, and to prevent additional swelling if there is a head injury.

if i am correct, it is two thin layers of chemicals seperated from each other, but in a VERY thin "sheet" covering the majority of internal helmet surface area.

[spartandude]

cycle gear is selling the shock doctor kit for motocross applications.
http://www.cyclegear.com/spgm.cfm?L1=5002&L2=12&L3=205&L4=&item=SDR_891-01-30
Still not quite sure on the usefullness.

GAU-8: interesting cold pack idea.

[gtdrivr]

if a helmet takes a decent impact, it's garbage anyway. Cut the bich off. I do like how the manufacturers are incorporating the pull out cheek pads. If it comes down to me living, cut the fckr off!

[HoustonRepsol]

Helmet removal systems are only as good as the training provided to "Trained emergency personnel" ie FD, EMS to remove a helmet. It is not that hard for us as EMS and Fire to remove a helmet without a "system". It just takes a couple sets of hands. The new shoei cheek pad removal tabs are a good idea but not many outside the MC community know what they are.

As for saying "life over limb" if the injury is higher in the c-spine than C-5 a person "yanking" the helmet off assuming the patient survives will not only be paralyzed they will be on a ventilator the rest of their life as the phrenic nerve that controls the diaphragm comes out at C-4

All this being said the chances of surviving a traumatic arrest are less than 1%. As psyco said I wouldn't blame anyone who is trying to do whatever they can to save a friend or fellow rider. But the reality is the ambulance will show up and most likely call a field termination.

As for the CPR debate as stated bad CPR is better than no CPR. NEVER do mouth to mouth. I don't care who you are or where you took your class, no one is taught to give mouth to mouth resuscitations anymore. Yes in the EMS and hospital settings we give breaths but using a device not locking lips.:thumb:

[GAU-8]

have to agree on cutting it off. it may SOUND horrible if concious, but i think that is the most direct access, for loosening a helmet up, and removal.

what if there is a flaw on the "ejector" and it pushes the helmet slightly in another direction, and starts to bind the helmet against the head? and the rescuers version to find a way to SLIDE it into place between the head, and helmet? with soft linings today, and all the channels for ventilation, and sandwhiched between the foam, and the skull, i just see too many snagging, or interferance issues with it.

but again i really hope i am wrong.

but for me, just cut that FACKER OFF!

[HoustonRepsol]

I could be wrong but I have never seen or heard of cutting off a MC helmet. maybe at the hospital they could do this but to properly secure someone to a backboard and put on a c-collar the helmet has to come off and it needs to come off for access to the airway should anything happen enroute to the hospital.

[gtdrivr]

they just take a die grinder (similar) and cut through the shell, split it in half. It can be removed without any pulling on the spine.

[mammothmc]

Don't touch the helmet unless you are absolutely positively certain that the person's airway is blocked.

Chances are you're going to screw it up even if you know what you're doing.

[miguel!!]

YouTube- Evolution 380 Metal Cutting Chopsaw

[GAU-8]

yeah but thats not the chop saw that auto-locks/stops as soon as it detects flesh. (i forgot what it was called)

threw a hot dog into it, hot dog came out with a tiny surface scrape, but no cut.

[+Travis+]

With my luck, I'd accidentally activate the CO2 inflation device while hitting the transition before t1 at TWS {ack, cha, ack... choke}

Anybody know if the Arai product can be fit into their older helmets? (I tried looking through their website, but that section is down for maintenance.)

[CCH]

When I cracked my ribs / T10 and T11 vertebrae in a crash back in 1999, the EMTs removed my helmet manually before they strapped me to the board. Slowly, and with two of them working together, but not by cutting it off in that instance.

I am certified in first aid, environmental emergencies and adult/child CPR by the American Heart Association and our instuctor taught that if at all possible give breaths in addition to the compressions. I carry a CPR mask and small med kit on group rides. I'll use it if I need to - even if you're ugly :)

If an EMT is in the habit of cutting the helmet off, I doubt that they'd use the ejector and would use their tried and true method. I don't think that people are familiar enough with the concept at this point. Cool idea though.